Make Magrider worth it

...
You are absolutely right. I often use this myself for crying out loud! In the freaking Vanguard! But there is a key difference here. My guess is that this Prowler driver drives up from a flank, then immediately escapes into friendly territory before anyone can really catch them. That's how I do it, because if they do try to follow you they run into the exact problem: Rushing blindly into enemy territory is a death sentence.

When I use it and I rush, it's because I know my position will be known the moment I open fire which is going to be the death of me when I'm on the flanks halfway into enemy territory. In those cases I prefer to first get in close, open fire on their backs with my gunner, kill one before they have a real chance of realizing I'm there and then try to steamroll on towards my allies.
But rushing straight into enemy territory? It's rarely going to pay off.

It takes, *surprise surprise*, practically no skill at all.

Here's a quick video I made just now about the "weak" Prowler. Notice that I'm driving a vanilla Prowler, notice that with the "loads of recoil" I can stick a MAX two times without any stopping, and overall MAX's tend to be a bit smaller than vehicles. Notice that in a 300m battle the Prowler has a much easier time finding the correct range and target. Also notice that I was still switching over from War Thunder controls so my driving wasn't optimal, but damn that Prowler is easy to aim and shoot! Also about that "lack of power", did you notice that, admittedly with the repair from a tower, I managed to almost go toe-to-toe with a 2/2 Vanguard while I was using HEAT rounds and no Anchor? Yeah the Prowler is soooooo weak... If I hadn't thought I had made my point I would have actually tried to save that tank instead of trade shots blindly.



(I already downloaded Blender and want to give that a go, that Filmora logo is annoying).

Also please notice the partially covered tanks that I hit, where most shots I just shoot those shells like skittles and hit, except for the last shot where I take a teensy bit of time. Hell I take more time with my Vanguard to shoot between shots because a miss in a Vanguard is an actual problem, not with the Prowler. With a Prowler you can afford to miss a shot once in a while when you are hasty, not with the Vanguard.
Also notice that one of the Prowler's biggest weaknesses... Is it's massive fire rate allowing it to actually run out of ammo. I was surprised it took me less than what, 3 minutes? To go through all my ammo.

Newsflash, this is a single tactic. Yes it's used a lot, but all 3 tanks can use it. The Vanguard is actually the weakest tank at this tactic. Yes it has a shield for if it screws up (and that shield is getting hammered with the CA update), but that doesn't instantly make it the best. The Prowler is shorter and speedier having an easier time popping in and out of cover, and his high ROF and DPS mean he can make use of that much better. In the meantime the Mag can easily strafe in and out of cover without any need to keep track of his chassis direction. So all 3 the tanks can use this tactic with the same amount of skill, where the Magrider has the best chance to avoid damage and stay in the field longer, the Prowler has the highest damage output and chance to put it on the enemy before he needs to retreat, and the Vanguard can... Survive if he screws up one of the most basic tactics in the game... But oh that's somehow making the Vanguard the best tank?
What about those dozens other maneuvers? The flanking? Traversing terrain? Those moments where you do need to shoot&scoot? Pushing the enemy during a lull? Taking advantage of an enemy that screws up? Places with low amounts of cover but loads of tanks? If there's little cover to practice this "tactic" then most of those tanks will be out and vulnerable, who's going to win that DPS battle? Well the Vanguards have a total healthpool much higher than the other two tanks if you add that shield, but that shield is temporary. The Prowlers have a much easier time picking off the tanks with focus-fire due to their higher DPS, which will give them the advantage in the long run in open combat, and the Magrider can field many more tanks meaning easier target saturation while still being able to dodge. So in that scenario the Vanguard is screwed again. Just to be sure you understand me: This doesn't mean the Vanguard is helpless or will lose 100% of the time, individual skill and luck of the draw have a large influence on such battles, but overall it's not going to be in favor of the Vanguard.

Eh, duh. Ofcourse mobility is more than forwards speed, you don't have to tell me that.

Who the hell cares you can't 1-mag a Vanguard in the back? You can move up, fire at it, see if it activates his shield (with the long cooldown there's a large chance he can't), and either move away and finish it off later (it's not as if it can get away), or drive large circles around it and beat the hell out of it (make it a circle with the Vanguard out of the center so you get close to it's rear once every turn). Also if you know how to drive Harassers, why don't you try and attack the frontline? Those tanks are perfect targets: Already with their minds on something else and ready for you to kick their damaged butts and get out again before anyone is any wiser.

Because only a weapon that was practically point&click was useable by you? I know that one sounds incredibly mean but really?

Newsflash: It's also possible to get OHK'd by a sniper rifle with every single shot! Oh noes! You can't approach anything in the game anymore!
Or you can, because the actual chance of it happening is low. So you can risk it. The Harasser is cheap as hell, and fast enough to make a death matter relatively little. Murdering a Magrider with a quick jab is nice, and if you know how to drive you can make it damn tough for a Magrider to blow you away that quickly.

Yeah, because a tank that has a higher DPS and easier time doing the quick-shot-kill you just mentioned and dread is really an easier target...

I can see that you are a hypocrite. Please look at my video above. It's quick, it's got a lot of faults, and still that Prowler has everything you say it doesn't have... Weird isn't it?

I've also played all factions and my experience is vastly different. Also, the logic is full with holes.

For example, most people say the Prowler is more prone to miss a shot. Lets say you always miss 50% of your shots, or miss one every two shots. At what point would the other tanks do equal or less damage? (Assuming all AP variants). The Vanguard does equal or less when missing one in 4 shots. It has to hit 3 shots before being able to miss one, while the Prowler is like "lol don't care, I'll just fire at a whim and miss half my shots". The Magrider does equal or less when missing one in 5. It has to hit 4 shots before missing one. So relatively you need a much higher amount of accuracy to match the DPS of the Prowler. And again, this is assuming that the Prowler is doing a horrendous job and missing half of it's shots! And after all this, they can still use anchor to upgrade the reload speed and velocity of the shots. As the Prowler can pack up with nearly no downtime, you can now anchor in a great deal of situations, laying down insane amounts of damage before you move back, completely negating any damage advantage the Vanguard has according to you.
Furthermore, Prowlers can fire much more projectiles, making them much more effective against infantry. Due to their shorter design they can go in and out of cover more easily compared to the Vanguard. They are faster than the Vanguard. So besides a higher alpha damage and a flimsy highly situational shield, what advantages does the Vanguard have?

The Magrider is a beast when used correctly and my playstyle has great synergy with even the vanilla tank, bit all in all the Prowler is so easy to use with great damage that it is amazing people feel like they have the short stick with it.

Also TR MAX chainguns are pretty good and you're talking about ZOE for VS MAX instead of blueshift and think the long range AT lasers are weak. There's more but you get the point. I cannot take this seriously.

What I've learned from this thread is that everyone is driving the tank that requires the most skill, while others are playing on easy mode. Obviously every trait your tank does not have makes the other tanks so easy to use. Because if you had those traits... Oh man, you'd be dodging shots, doing flips, and effortlessly killing tanks left and right.

Maybe you should take a moment to reflect why these tanks seem to under-perform in your hands? I don't mean this in the "GIT GUD, LEL!"-way but rather to stop drooling what others have and making the most of what you've got.

Well, where most players use on-paper stats to try and figure out if their tank is weaker, and that has many flaws. Such as things like strafing not doing well on paper ("can't dodge within 200m!") and the advantage of being able to stabally fire on the move not being possible to put into numbers.
I've used the now dead Oracle of Death to show that the Vanguard is underperforming compared to the other two tanks. Because in the end the on-paper stats don't matter, what matters is the actual results it gets.
Now others have already proven with those same stats that the Vanguard isn't as super-bad as I initially thought, but it's still the weakest tank ranking third in most categories and it's only category where it's ranked first... Might not be deserved (not counting aircraft kills here). The Vanguard is supposedly the best anti-tank MBT, yet the Magrider scores, per Magrider, practically the same MBT kills... But in less time alive. Meaning the Vanguard needs more time to kill the same amount of MBT's and only manages to pull that off because of it's shield. Which is getting nerfed. Also the Magrider pulled this off during a time when it was still used +/-30% less than the other two MBT's, so imagine how good the Maggie would get if it got the same amount of vehicle pulls and wasn't outnumbered... And I should have calculated the Prowler's MBT kills per life back then but it's too late now, but I'm fairly sure the Vanguards "king of MBT kills" crown would quickly move to someone else.

https://gfycat.com/ElasticIdolizedIndiancow

One loss for the Magrider doesn't mean It's suddenly bad, or the Vanguard good.

Also, did you notice things like the first shot by the Magrider missing? Or the fact that he makes no attempt at all to keep behind the Vanguard and just let's you turn your side-armor on them? If they had kept at range they would have been able to use the mountain as cover, since they didn't make an attempt at staying behind you they shouldn't have bothered to move up in the first place. In the end they manage to barely get anything in your back, they try to facetank every single shot and use only 1 of the Magrider's abilities (move and shoot relatively stably) while not using anything else, and completely fail in their "flank" by missing the opening salvo on the rear of the Vanguard. Also the Saron only comes into action when you've already hopped in and turning, so +/-3 shots actually hit the rear before the shield goes up. Even then it fires in bursts, rather then magdumping which would have been ideal at that range. Probably because the Magrider driver was trying to "dodge" at point-blank range by going up extreme slopes, which did nothing to help it and only hindered it in the end. The only magdump we see is just before it's destroyed.

All in all, the Magrider uses practically nothing of it's maneuverability, the cover it had ready at hand, or the movement advantage it has to avoid damage/stay behind the Vanguard and is driven poorly, giving the Vanguard time to use it's much weaker turn-ratio to avoid loads of damage with side-armor and facetanking everything against a foe with more armor and DPS.
Just imagine if they had hit that first volley, it was close enough for a magdump and with that main gun shot in the rear... You guys would have lost the battle.

It's like saying "look! I killed a stationary Harasser in a single salvo! All Harassers are bad!" while ignoring that a moving Harasser is much more difficult to engage and depending on the weapon and terrain the Harasser can be more than a match for any MBT loadout and crew.

So, a Magrider pilot has to be able to do flic-flacs through burning rings while maintaining a perfect accuracy (and his gunner too) to beat a vanguard driver that just sits there and presses the "I win key"?
That is the problem here, you are quick to point out all the flaws in the magrider drivers way of engaging the vaguard. He could have done this and that, etc. pp. while you completely ignore that the vanguard wasn't even moving at all and still won the engagement with 50% health left.

That said, I wouldn't want to change the tank balance in PS2, because I know, no matter what DBG tries they'll make it worse. All I'd like to have are some minor QoL changes like adjusting the main gun elevation of the magrider to be on par with the vanguard and prowler, fix the spinning bug and maybe add the middle mousebutton freelook in first person mode.

The magrider is not a MBT like the prowler or vanguard. It's a heavy harrasser. And if you use it like that, its very fun to play.

Yep, even as a Terrain who hates the Prowler, I can agree the poor Vanguard is worst Tank...
Thing is, while the Magrider has always had superior maneuverability and the Prowler benefited from both huge DPS buffs and the change that made cannon shots magically veer to where the Crosshairs are, the poor Vanny was only left with slightly better armor values...

Even as a Terrain I wouldn't be opposed to the Vanguard Cannons getting a buff to Muzzle Velocity, probably to 300m/s so that Lockdown still gives a SLIGHT speed edge at 325m/s, so that the Vanguard can play the role of long-ranged Artillery and Tank Destroyer.

The Vanguard has the most armor, is the most defensive-style tank.
Considering this, you would think it could handle & win any endurance trial aka Face-tanking: It loses to the Prowler however.
The Magrider is designed as an Agile tank, you shouldn't expect to achieve much while not using that strength against the Vanguard's Strength.

Pit your strength against their weakness.
The Magrider is highly agile, able to easy force the shield activation which lasts 6 seconds, and has a long cooldown.
As well, the Magrider is gaining the Prowler's reload speed advantage.
The Vanguard? Shield is turned into a directional resistance booster, which has no rear effect.
In addition, the Vanguard's health is raised, making it take the longest to repair out of all the tanks.

Use a Magrider to face-tank against the Tank designed to endure enemy fire, and obviously you won't get grand results.
Prowler only is capable at face-tanking the vanguard solely due to damage-output which outpaces everything.
The Vanguard is reliant on the Shield;
And after the Update, will be facing a Faster-reloading Maggie, and the Deadly Prowler, with an inferior shield.

Don't forget infantry AV against the Magrider, my gods.
Prowler & Vanguard are the easiest targets, big easily predicated targets.
Magie? You can't predict crap, and if the cannon doesn't kill, it can ram you easily at a distance.

Long-range fire isn't all that effective against a Magrider.
And would make the Magrider's evasive capability have a shorter min-distance.
- That, and with the slow-firing rate, your targets will be easily gone well before the second shell is fired.

While I can respect a buff to the Purple People-Eaters' reload speed, that Shield nerf is rather ********...
I mean, I can understand why they'd want to change to a resistance booster over a flat six seconds of Invincibility (Way easier to balance and fix in case it bugs out), but no Rear Resistance Boost what-so-ever?!
Might as well just take Nanite Auto-Repair instead, as you're just going to sit back and plink anyways.

That damn Roomba is the whole reason I bought an Annihilator back at Launch man, I haven't forgotten.

Yeah, but that's always going to be the case, where as a Reload Speed Increase is just a straight DPS buff and a Damage Buff is probably right out...

At least with a Velocity Buff, it will be easier to land shots at range as well as give Magriders less time to dodge out of the way when closing.

Fun fact; It was additional Health that could be eaten by prowlers before 6 Seconds was up.
So it wasn't even invincibility, just a higher health for 6 seconds.

It's directional.
They wanted to prevent it working like the Heavy shield, which counteracts flanking a wee bit if I had to guess.
The original shield after all helped with all manner of assaults on it during 6 seconds.

A-R wouldn't be useful given we:

• Take more time to repair in total : Health changes to Vanguard, but no edits to repair tool which is a fixed value not a %
• Are compared to the Other tanks and AV with the Shield active.

Exactly why I don't mention a reload-speed buff.
But VS will logically complain about the harder-to-avoid-only-tank-fire for their Magrider.
And I say logically, as that is one of their advantages, which is balanced by their lesser long-range capability.
However, the quicker reload will easily counter out the velocity since the Vanguard will be taking a lot of shots, and if it hits the side let alone rear when facing the highly mobile Magrider it will result in the shield effectiveness being less or non-existent.
And if the Maggie dies or retreats, the Shield will be gone, but if both start repairing at the same time:
The Magrider's higher damage-output for that time period will ensure the Vanguard takes longer to Repair.

This isn't accounting for the issue of Vanguards taking longer to repair, making attrition the easiest against them.
So the Velocity isn't going to help much, but have Vanu complain their dodge isn't good enough against the Vanguard.

Seriously, they didn't even give it proper immunity, just bonus health?!
You sure SOE didn't switch to a Health Boost after failing to make a working Invincibility Shield?

Well yeah, but if they're making it a directional based Resistance Boost, wouldn't it have to boost each facing separately anyways to not boost the Rear Armor?
Thus, why can't it Buff Rear Armor resistances just a WEE bit, like 5%, just to make it more universally useful?

Yeah, but if the Shield is just a "Become Tanker on your Front and Sides" button, you aren't going to want to use it in situations where something could get behind you and you are not going to need it if you've got plenty of space between you and what you're shooting at.
Where as a temporary 5% Resistance Boost to the Rear Facing might help the Vanguard stay alive long enough to pull back out of a bad spot.

This is why nobody likes the Vanu...

Correct it was 6 seconds of Bonus health.
Multiple Prowlers did not have to care, due to sheering through it before even 6 seconds.
Pretty sure, since no where ever has it been said, nor seen to be actually invincible, as that is a myth.
- And only prowlers could eat the entire value.

The Side has one value, the Front has Another, the Rear has 0.
As likely to make Flanking more valuable, let alone with a Tank that is easily flanked...
While having another Tank easily whirl around it without exposing their own rear, shooting into it.

That's why I said it was Hammered down to death.
The Old shield just allowed it to survive a few seconds longer, or win a solo face-tanking
(Which as the heaviest armored tank it should win, without the shield)

Since it's a resistance, the value of it depends on your health which is cut away with each blow.
Add in, the fact that the Vanguard has a higher health pool that takes longer to Repair...
And it becomes incredibly painful for any longer battle.

I used to be a Vanu, the Tools are nice when used properly; Then I switched for an Outfit.
Facing them being used properly, is nightmarish; Every single thing meshes properly, unlike TR or NC.
Yet every time they are adjusted, or not adjusted, I hear people go off about how "The devs want to delete Vanu"
While they suggest giving the Magrider a ******* Cloak, Hitscan Sniper-rifles, Wall-Piercing-Shots, Magrider Flight, Magrider Better-Vanguard Shield, Flying-Maxes (again)....

So there's a lot that makes them unlike-able.
Quite a bit is the inferiority complex while having Less achieving more than those with greater numbers.
How a Tank can't face-tank the more Heavily Armored tank.
How Sniper Rifles of one-side shouldn't have to adjust for Range.
How an LMG achieving the best results out of LMGs is perfectly fine.
Etc.. etc.. etc..

No, the Magrider has to actually hit.
The Vanguard has hit 100% of his shots at almost 100% fire rate (including his topgun), the Magrider in the meantime has a slowed fire-rate because the driver was actually doing those flic-flacs where it wasn't useful to do it by going up and down the hills in extreme CQC. If the Vanguard had had a similar hit %, or the Magrider had had 100% hits and a better fire-rate because he would have stood still, he could have won that battle.
Also the Vanguard only won by "just sitting there" because the Magrider screwed up and didn't do anything to make use of the Vanguard just sitting there and doing nothing more but turn it's chassis and aim.

You could argue once more that "but the Vanguard won by just sitting there!", but that's the problem: It's practically the only thing the Vanguard can do against the superior mobility that the other two tanks have.

I would want to make those changes, because I know that DBG has been doing much better than SOE did and has been achieving a higher success rate with it's changes than before.

And an improved engine for the Vanguard so it can push other tanks out of the way and even damage them. And some other QoL upgrades for the base-chassis that the Vanguard can utilize and have a unique edge over the other two especially now that the Vanguard Shield is getting hammered into a directional resist shield. Such as perhaps a very high reverse speed capability, the standard ability to have a shot pierce a single target and deal additional damage to a second target behind it (like a repair crew), the ability to have consecutive hits start reducing armor value's from that armor facing. something to make the Vanilla Vanguard without abilities equal to the Vanilla Prowler/Magrider.

The Magrider has all the rights to be called an MBT. It's well armored, it's well equipped with weapons that at the very least are on-par with the Vanguard and even surpass it in versatily (nothing beats the Prowlers lust for DPS but a Liberator), it has the abilities to avoid damage rather than simply facetank it and it has better traversal/drive&gun capabilities to boot. The fact that this allows it to also function somewhat similar to an Harasser doesn't mean people can try to scoffingly call it a "Heavy Harasser".

If the Magrider has the ability to be called an MBT why does every user call it a heavy harasser?

Why does the Magrider to be used correctly have to use stealth and flank (except when playing around as anti infantry and magburn)? Why does the Prowler to be used correctly not have to use stealth and flank but instead can sit and bombard targets? Why can the Vanguard push in columns and is not using stealth and flanking maneuvers but shield?

All tanks are equal except some are more equal then others...

The Vanu who want it to be cloaked, be Shielded, be able to fly, or be more superior, call it a Heavy Harasser.

The Magrider like each tank has to be used correctly to their strengths.
The Magrider has agility; Which makes it the least able to be hit by infantry AV.
The Prowler has Firepower; Basically artillery, but is a massive target.
The Vanguard has Endurance via the Shield; Which lasts 6 seconds.

A Prowler can not use "Stealth" or flank like a Magrider; It's a massive, hard to miss target, that has its entire capability locked into destroying a target.
It can not strafe, it must turn the entire chassis, is incredibly hard to miss with any AV including infantry.

A Vanguard can not use 'Stealth' or flak like a Magrider either; It's a large target which has the slowest reload, must turn the entire chassis, and has the worst traction.
It pushes in Columns, as a Lone Vanguard is easily dead to an LA with the slowest firing cannon, and large chassis.
With multiple tanks, it also isn't as screwed when flanked by Harassers, Magriders or Prowlers.

The Magrider can evade enemy fire in the open.
And only the Magrider.

No other tank can do what it can do.
And it can do what the others can, just thankfully not to the same degree: Since each is specialized for ***** sake.

Each Tank has to be used properly.
Even that 6 seconds of shield, which is easily countered, needs to be properly timed or be wasted without the enemy having to lift a finger - And yet it's complained that it allows the most armored tank to survive a slug-match against a single target.
"That Shield blocks my Sword when I slam it into it! I have to wait 6 seconds for it break, So broken."
"Yes, the shield that only works for 6 seconds actually helps defend. Shocking"

"My Damage Booster doesn't melt it as if it wasn't there! ********!"
&
"I can't face-tank the more armored tank in 1v1 without thought! ********!"

This sums up the argument of fighting the Shield, without considering the point of the Shield.

When the Prowler's damage booster lasts 6 seconds, and is complained about letting it deal more damage...
Or the Magburner & Strafing only can work for 6 seconds in total, and is complained about it working...
Perhaps we can then complain about the Soon-be-dead Shield blocking damage for 6 seconds.

As it's going to be useless against a Flanking magrider, which will be able to rapidly reload & unload into Vanguards as if it wasn't there.
Prowlers will shred through Vanguards, making them unable to fire back due to taking longer to repair and taking incredible damage.
And the Vanguard's improvement?
To take longer to repair, have a shield that doesn't protect against the more agile, and lets it be damaged severely so it can be repaired at a slower rate.
NC's tank got destroyed further than before.

Actually last I checked, the listed Resistances are:

• Lightning: Front 65%; Side 58%; Rear/Bottom 32%
• Magrider and Prowler: Front 63%; Side 58%; Rear/Bottom 30%
• Vangaurd: 68%; Side 65%; Rear/Bottom 30%

For the PTS changes? Where rear armor amplifies damage?
Or do you mean the Directional Shield.

Yes, there is a difference between these three.

https://gfycat.com/ConfusedLightAndalusianhorse