no the issue here is lack of reckon for the other classes ... why is the infil THE ONLY class to have motiondarts and spotters? this should be given to medics and engineers as well ... MAXes should have the option for a personal radarpack (beside ammo and shieldbooseter for example) .. stuff like that needs to be added .. and i still take a closerange/melee infil over the sniper ... and yes ... going after the sniper is playing into the snipers hand ... he got you out of the main fight ...
May I remind you that every infantryman, MAX excluded, can equip the Hunter crossbow sidearm with recon bolts, which are weaker versions of the recon dart pistol?
And yet again ONE class reducing the combat effectivness of all the others - By forcing them to give up additional firepower through swapping out a sidearm with a weaker tool to better counter that one specific class
Then give Engineers motion spotters. Engineers are defense experts after all. Or in fact, give it to Medic, since Engineers have Spitfires to alert them of entries. We wouldnt want people to use the motion spotters over Spitfires. Give Motion Spotters to other classes, so they can see what is in their area.
No, let the Infiltrators keep the Recon Darts. Thats only obvious, since it will be their only advantage. Infiltrators need to know where people are at range so they can plot their course, because thats what Infiltrators should be doing. Plotting. And its the only advantage their tool would bring their team. So no, only the Motion Spotters for other classes, since that would be the most beneficial to them. This is only out of concern for you, because we really don't need more recon spam in the game. If you have a useful Infiltrator on your team providing recon, thats good, but having every class doing it? It'll be hard to attack a base. So there should be a downside, and it should be either a replaced tool or the fact that they can only use the spotter, maybe a nerfed version of it or, conversely, buff the Infiltrator's verison.
By now I would just say to take the cloak away from the class until we have working counters towards them and rename the class into assassin or hunter,as that's what they are designed for. How about cloaked stuff being always visible on the minimap no matter if there are sensors around? (as Infiltrators are the only ones with access to the tools to counter themselves) Infiltrators kill the game the way they are now - maybe that's the plan afterall
it wouldn't surprise me really. That's what most of the devs decisions seem to revolved around. Yes you COULD use your brain to track down a single infiltrator over goodness knows how long, just like you COULD theoretically figure out how to kill a tank with a pistol (shooting an AT mine as they drive over it). The problem with this though is the average player shouldn't have to be Einstein or general Patton to deal with a single character class that demands significantly less effort to play then to counter. Darklights do not offer a solution to snipers, and often they don't even offer a valid solution to SMG infiltrators since they can and will kill you 5 times over before you can get close enough to actually spot them. IR sights WERE widely used, and maybe they did make infiltrators useless at close range...and that was the point. Infiltrators are not main combatants, and they were not intended to be. They are infiltrators, that means spotting targets, hacking terminals, setting mines and fighting the enemy using your head and not your cloak. So I think people have this situation backwards. Playing infiltrator should be difficult, but rewarding. If the main defense against fixing IR scopes is "It would make infiltrator obsolete as a frontline unit" then you have literally reinforced the need for thermal optics by revealing that the player base is using the infiltrator in a role its not designed for. So no, we should not remove cloak. But we shouldn't coddle them either. The devs should restore the IR sights and if any infiltrator has a problem with that, they should be reminded to focus on their job (sniping, recon, sabotage, mine placement, and capturing empty targets, terminals, and turrets) and not on doing everyone else's job. Perhaps a good way to soften the blow might be to give infiltrators a point bonus each time something they did benefits their team. every time someone spawns a vehicle or aircraft off a terminal they hacked for example, or every time a turret they hacked kills an enemy. Other items could also be added to give them additional purpose beyond combat, such as placeable EMP generators and other devices that act as static benefits to their team and encourage infiltrators to enter bases ahead of the actual fight for preparation.
I will say it once and I will say it again. Infiltrators do not need and should not have SMGs. SMG Infiltrators are just annoying. Not necessarily hard to deal with as a Heavy Assault or Medic, but annoying. They should solely be highly skilled headhunters that kill their enemies from range and are constantly plotting. You have changed my mind. I am fine with IR optics now and yeah, they could use a buff. We could also make the Cold Heart implant more useful to other classes, i.e Infiltrators, by having to be much closer to spot anyone with IR optics after you have done your little crouch. Two birds, one stone. And then you can buff the Flashlight to have a wider range and AoE. I, as a somewhat former Infiltrator main (as I am playing every other class way more than it now), don't even care if the Infiltrator gets a buff. This is fair. Maybe, just maybe, a little longer cloak time and maybe, just maybe, faster run speed while cloaked, so you can get away if you see the threat coming in time. How does that sound?
No, that somewhat defeats the purpose of the cloak. A quick glance and you can just find and shoot at the Infiltrator, the thing that is supposed to not be seen. The cloak would only serve a good purpose then if you stare decide to stare at the radar instead of glancing at it. Then you would still die, even though you knew where they were, because before you knew it, they decloaked and killed you while you were still looking for them. And why a rename?
Sure, the glimmer is extremely visible - except when its dark, or the guy crouches, or stands complete still ,or is more than 5 metre away, or thanks to lousy optimization it's not possible to have the right graphic settings to see the glimmer at all. But hey, we have this "shoot me" sign called flashlights that work only between certain distances and require a weapon modification slot. I think there is a word for that in the gaming industry.... oh right, BROKEN. (There is a reason why no other game of this style has invisibility) And the rename just to highlight what the class does 99% of the time with their cloak.
If they are always visible on the minimap, you don't need to see them. You just need to hit them once and you can get a bead on their location, then just track them, and they won't be able to kill you in time, unless they are cracked with a sniper. It doesn't matter if you can see them or not in such a case, because you don't need to. In all honesty, you shouldn't be "looking" for Infiltrators, because they are meant not to be seen. And flashlights are broken, as in busted, as in non-functioning, so fix them. Wider range, longer distance, unlocked by default on starter weapons. And yes, having a weapon mod or any sort of slot to find Infiltrators is dumb, so you should be able to find them without one, but it takes more skill. So make more ways to find Infiltrators WITHOUT tools. Everyone wants to implement tools. No. Stop. We don't need more tools. We need to be able to find Stalkers. Thats what we need. I have a solution. Make the cloak less visible in someone's peripherals, like invisble, but more visible if they move right infront of your eyes. There, fixed. Now you, as an Infiltrator, need to know where people are looking to stay as stealthy as possible, and its always better to attack from behind now, so use your cloak to that advantage. But the name "Infiltrator" sounds so coooooool!!! Plus, Infiltrators should be cracked with snipers, so if they infiltrate with an LR sniper or CQC sniper, thats just one reason to keep the name. Eh? Ehhhhhh?
An option would be to make the light invisible (IR lights) and bind them to the suit like in Half-Life, Counter Strike etc. instead of attaching them to the weapon. Good thing would also be if that would break the cloak completely instead of a shimmering outline (hard to see in bright environments) An ultimate solution would be to prevent cloakers from pre-aiming while invisible, somebody mentioned a tool that the infiltrator needs to hold - that's how BF 2142 prevented kills from invisible enemies
Ok. Thats fair. But we really should be withdrawing from different tools and utilities to find Infiltrators. But the pre-aiming ability is crucial to snipers in such huge battles. Say we didn't have cloaks. You would be a sniper, move out from cover, and get sniped by another sniper just waiting for you to move. You couldn't pre-aim there, peak out, and blast the guy because of his advantage in being able to aim there and watch you. You'd experience the same problem as that if you couldn't pre-aim, just a lighter version of it due to the ability to move out of where they may be scoped in on. Thats why I want to go after the weapons instead of just the cloak. The snipers aren't really a piece of cake, especially for new players. But if they are too easy and getting too good of results in close range, nerf them.
I think infiltrators would not mind going for more sabotage... If there would be any in game. Hacking terminals? Mostly within the base, needs cloak and time. Sabotage of generators? Needs connection to the lattice system to destroy the thing, anyone can do that. I said it before in another thread, the thing would be different if infiltrators had generator jammers shutting generators down instead of destroying them. Pro: up to 4 jammers placable instant by remote generators in the entire base could shut down in an instant. Contra: Once the jammer is gone, the generator is working again in an instant. Vehicles in shield gates upon reactivation are destroyed in an instant. To this point, there are no walls or force fields to breach, no breaching charges to make way to something by force, nothing. For a class supposed to aim at sabotage, there is very little sabotage in the game. And once we do construction based sabotage with the C-bomb, the infiltrator class is bashed for doing its freaking sabotage job! "How dare they to be so efficient in their job?!?" So come with something new around the corner or spare me the talk about sabotage. We all had a good laugh about it, let's be real for a moment. For a class supposed to be responsible for sabotage, the people are pretty hesitant to be on the receiving end of said sabotage. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want the infiltrator to do something, expect these things to happen to you as well. If you don't want them to have something, what do you offer in return? It's a give and take, not just take, take, take... You want infiltrators to have no SMGs? Fine... I would rather have a shoulder cannon (earnable via directive if it has to be, this weapon should be a status symbol among infiltrators), wristblades (infiltrator only melee) and a grappling hook then. Like this I am in no way a one man army, but I can still get to places and can rely on my wits and cunning to outsmart the enemy.
exactly they are weak, hence why barely anyone, if at all uses them .... engineer and medic should have some propper devices along with the MAX .. crossbow with motiondarts sacrefises significant firepower which is a specialtytool for hunters like infils which already have their reconoption and Light assaults who have a clear mobility advantage over any other class .. you could do a engineerloadout with scoutrifle/battlerifle, motiondartcrossbow and sentryturret but you would be at such a disadvantage on basicaly everything else for specialist countersniping that makes this loadout questionable in usefullness in regards to the primary battleflow ... if you don´t use a countersniping or 2nd row primary but instead a standart primary you still lack a defensive option or a finisher and otherwise have to rely on other players to finish off targets you weren´t able to kill yourself ...
I think with infravision scopes or implants you should see that small shimmer like with standard vision - just adapted for infravision colors. It shouldn't be too obvious but you should have a chance to spot cloaked sunderers or cloaked infiltrators. At the moment it is absolutely impossible to see anything cloaked except friendly faction cloakes when you have bloom enabled. Even an infiltrator dancing in front of you cloaked is totally invisible.
The infiltrator class is the easiest to kill, and as an infil that specifically hunts other infils i kill them easily whether or not I have an active cloak. The whole point of the class is stealth, but to counter it generally you have to be aware of your surroundings. HA - Overshield means no chance in a 1:1 and most heavies arent alone, the HA:Infil TTK is hilarious and measured in fractions of a second LA - They can FLY away once they hear the infil, also they can equip darklight Engi- Turrets, Radar ANTS Medic- Health regen and shoot, but this classes weakness vis-a-vis infils is the same weakness against other classes Maxes- I play knife only to keep it fun, but if you are a stalker infil you only have a pistol or a melee weapon. If you are not a stalker the cloak/decloak tell is LOUD and obvious. Skilled players take out infils with little effort, if you have low situational awareness then yes of course you will be harvested. The game is heavily skewed towards HA/LA game-play, deliberate or not the result is the same. LA has seen a steady stream of buffs, similar to HA with all of the implants they are extremely difficult to take out toe to toe so as an infil we have to use stealth to balance the fight. The game has Radar ANTs, Radar Valkyries, Radar Sundies, Radar implants, darklight flashlights, updated maps with floodlights EVERYWHERE, superbright vehicle lights, pain fields in bases, AOE thumpers that defeat your cloak, basically a ton of adjustments to make infils less effective. Yet still people complain which is baffling. I deleted my old character with 26k knife kills, but my K/D as a skilled knifer was nothing to write home about at less than 2:1. On occasion when i see no radar but get taken out I ask 'how did you know i was there?' and get 'oh I saw a red dot on the map and just looked in your direction'. There is no way to be sure that your cover isnt blown, but as mentioned above its quite rare to not have enemy radar or sensors in an active battlefield. One thing that should be changed though is deep operative, the silhouette should be noticeable if you pay attn. OTOH if you cant see it at all, its a bit excessive.
Respectfully, this is not true. I get killed crouched and stationary quite often, dancing around right in front of an enemy will earn you the cert pinata achievement
That is true when the enemy doesn't use the infravision implant but it is not true when your enemy uses the infravision implant. If he uses the implant you are totally invisible to him. There is not even the slightest visual clue (like shimmer) that there is a cloaked guy dancing in front of you. He can only know you are there if he walks into you or if he sees you on the radar and shoots in the general direction. For friendlies with bloom you can see a colored shine around stealthed sundy and players. I guess if they did something like that but a lot less visible for the infravision implant / scopes that should work - doesn't even need to be colored but rather just the distortion in the background so that you might see it when a stealthed player moves. When I have the implant active i see players through the enemy sunderer somtimes but i can't see the sunderer even if I bump into it - it is just not there for me visually. Thats what I mean.
