Lynx going to 896 RPM

To put it in perspective that is about 4 times as much of a gap as between the new Lynx and the Gauss SAW.

What do you suggest then? Remove GD7F from NC and give it to TR because it's a more TR like weapon? The community and developers cannot handle this sort of empire balance and having switching factions as a "safety valve" is no answer.

^This.

How anyone could think copy+pasting faction A's weapons to faction B adds whatsoever to fun or diversity is completely beyond me. It's right there, right there all you have to do is play faction B. I did it and so have many others.

Honestly, I am surprised there is not more outrage over this kind of suggestion. I did not dump more time and money into a new character only to have that character become a red clone of another character that I already had.

There are plenty of games where you have identical equipment balances- PS2 was never one of them and has not been since the beginning.

Let alone that some of the more vociferous people pushing for this kind of thing have been playing for ages and only relatively recently started this "gimme that faction's weapons now" nonsense.

Just offensive and unbelievable in my opinion.

I applaud the developers for trying to satisfy the people who genuinely want more fun and diversity and I'm glad to see that (at least so far) they do not intend to just copy+paste faction A weapon onto faction B- good for them and I hope they stick to their guns. It would be utterly shameful to turn their backs on all the hard work and creativity that went into designing and balancing different factions. Many of us have stuck with the game through longer lasting and way more extreme faction balance issues than we currently face without demanding homogeneity. Many of us have multiple characters and play on different factions and it is offensive to suggest that the time and money spent doing so be wiped away by homogeneity.

As mentioned way back, they could make the GD-7F a 167/700ish weapon (with high damage drop off, small magazine, and low minimum bullet damage), leave the VS with the Serpent as is, and the TR with the new Lynx.


Making everyones weapons exactly the same is certainly the easiest to balance, however making everyones weapons different, but still balanced is likely the best option for the game in the long-term sustainability.

What are you talking about?

According to you there is a difference of 0.01 TTK in the Gauss Saw and the Lynx?
That would mean Gauss Saw 0.54 TTK.
And the Lynx would have 0.53 TTK

Is that what your saying?

According to my math the Gauss saw has a TTK of 0.6 seconds.

I'll try to explain it to you, using LA 1 Anchor and the God SAW.
Both of these guns have a TTK of 0.6 seconds.

But LA1 Anchor is known to be better in CQC than the God Saw in CQC.
Why is that?

Well there are always factors of Reloads, magazine size, etc etc.
But one of the main reasons is that it fires faster than the GOD SAW.

If the Gauss Saw misses a bullet, it adds on 20% of its TTK time.
If the Anchor misses a bullet, it adds on 16% of its TTK time.

Compare that to Lynx and GD-7F:

If the GD-7F misses a bullet, it adds on 14% of TTK time.
If the Lynx misses a bullet, it adds on 12.5% of TTK time.

Reasons not to play NC:

1. Way more certs/SC/time invested in TR character
2. NC ideology and aesthetic do not appeal to me
3. NC Connery is overpop
4. NC in general attracts bad/clueless players(see: this thread) and has statistically the highest TK rate
5. TR from a lore standpoint is the only sane choice

Sounds good to me. I'd just make them NS though.

Right now they're not that different anyway, one faction just usually has a slightly higher RoF, more velocity, a faster reload, whatever. For the majority of infantry weapons the differences aren't particularly unique or interesting but just make certain guns worse than others for the same role. NC is the exception because of the 200 damage weapons that function/handle quite differently.

Maybe TR's new 125/896 will offer something unique for TR, but it's worse DPS than the old Lynx. Plus the Armistice was worse off for having this damage model with weaker effective range and less damage out of the ext mags than the other first tier SMGs, so it's hard to be optimistic. It gains pretty much nothing from being 125/896. 896 RoF is also just not a dramatic increase from 845 in feel like 200 damage is up from 167.

Current Lynx: 6 bullets * 0.075 refire = 0.45
Updated Lynx: 7 * 0.067 = 0.47
Gauss SAW: 4 * .12 = 0.48
Anchor: 5 * .1 = 0.5

Anchor is better in CQC than SAW because it has better accuracy. Generally speaking the higher damage bracket the more a single head shot or miss counts and the more nanoweave punishes for requiring one more bullet to the body. But I have killed a lot of people in close quarters with the SAW. Overall it is my single most used weapon in the game.

These TTK are when you remove the first shot. ^

This simply explains that the person who fires first wins.

Lynx if you got the first shot = 0.47 second
GD-7F if you did not get the first shot = 0.49 seconds

I'm certainly not saying that the God Saw is a bad weapon or terrible in CQC.
Usually in CQC (less than 10m) I care less about general accuracy and depend only on Hipfire.

But as i said, there are many factors affecting the new Lynx and not just RoF, damage and TTK, give it a chance before calling for buffs.
The MKV Suppressed (SMG) did turn out to be a decent option even though it was 125@779.

Yeah I removed the first shot because that's how you get the correct value.

SMG are sub optimal for light assault in my opinion as they generally rely on the advantage infiltrators get from being cloaked or the HA shield to be effective. I don't really understand what bearing the MKV suppressed has on the discussion. It seems sort of irrelevant.

Yes, who fires first is pretty critical for everyone. Are you saying that TR always fire first because NC are all too honourable like new Han Solo or something? When I play NC I don't have any special problem firing first with the GD7F as well as turning on people who fire first on me and beating them.

No i'm saying that
If the TR soldier fires first, he wins.
If the NC soldier fires first, he wins.

Its practically impossible to fire at the exact same time, considering both side would be having 'Humans'
Accuracy and skill is always rewarded.

If they start firing at almost the same time the most likely outcome is that they trade kills anyway

Generally speaking increasing the rof of a weapon should decrease the time to kill while increasing recoil. There's no sane reason to reduce the damage of the weapon to balance that out as that makes the rof increase completely pointless and nerfs that weapon in every way. Increasing rof while reducing damage means you have to handle more recoil due to the rof increase and fire more bullets to do the same damage. That makes that weapon worse. It doesn't increase diversity of TR weapons, infact it reduces it as TR vets will just add that gun to the "never add to loadout" list. (90% of TR infantry weapons are already in there thus far) /facepalm

ROF is nothing to get excited about and I fail to see how Higby thinks TR will be all happy with ROF increases when you end up nerfing the weapons damage every time you put them out. You could have a weapon with 1000 ROF but if bullet damage is just 100 then it's no better then anything else and is likely to be FAR worse as your using more bullets to get each kill and dealing with more recoil.

This is what I'm hearing... "TR I am finally taking notice of "some" of your slightly weaker infantry weapons which are statically weaker then the NC/VS equivalent, My solution is to increase your ROF as big flashy ROF numbers make a weapon look better and sound cooler. Am I right? *cough* Oh i forgot to mention the damage nerfs that go with these ROF changes making more of your weapons weaker and decreasing your weapon diversity as a whole"

With this position that it makes no difference then why not just change the Lynx to a 143/850 weapon. What is the problem with that in the first place? And if it's 125 then why not 950 or even 1000? It doesn't make any difference so just make it like that and nobody needs to worry.

I heard they said that they cant go higher than 896 ROF.

I'm fine if they make it 143 @ 850.

The Devs won't balance the game around you wanting to have NC weapons, but not wanting to play NC.

Whilst it would be easier balance wise for all weapons to be exactly the same, and just graphical differences between factions, that is not the game the Devs have made (nor indeed was PS1).

The Lynx has 40 rounds per mag, 143/850 it would just be plain out and out better.

The TTK with 125/896 is actually spot on.

It would be balanced like TRV probably and every TR would cry again

Why would it be a problem if TR got one "better than other Faction's" weapon? Just one, not two. Atm, TR has none in any category that stands out over NC or VS weapons. It's not a ZOE Max or a Harasser, it's not a gun which has built-in aimbot. It's just a weapon that would be slightly better than other Faction's weapons in that category. And a 125/896 Lynx would high probably be worse than the old one.

Because that's not what balancing is. If you really think that the TR should have the best carbine because reasons, then give the NC their old MAXes back. The performance difference to the other MAXes at the time was only something like 8% better.

Because it wouldn't be remotely balanced.

Where as the 125/896 looks (so far) to be balanced (TTK-wise).


As for "all TR weapons being rubbish"......er, no.

I didn't say they are "rubbish" but they are in no way better than their supposed NC or VS "counterparts". Not even on equal ground.