Lower the air skill ceiling

Oh, it's so easy to just throw bland statements like "SOE make population balanced" or "SOE fix the airgame", but if you don't even bother to think and suggest HOW they could or should do it, then you should not have made this thread in the first place. Besides that, it's good that there is some very high skill ceiling part of the game, it can function as a sort of goal or a endgame for players and if you are an inexperienced pilot then it's even 10 times more satisfying to succeed in the air.

This is the real issue, IMHO. The resource system makes it impossible to keep a continuous cycle of "fail, try again, fail, try again" because you have to wait for and/or grind resources. AND there's an acquisition timer, but at least you can cert that to negligibility. Bottom line is that the more there is for you to learn, the *slower* the learning process is, which is excruciatingly frustrating and exactly the opposite of how it should be.

And lo, he has found the crux of the problem. Bravo sir.

Not much can be done about this problem, they released numerous updates combating the issue but simple fact is what ever you do to help new pilots you're probably going to help the ACE pilots more.

You could increase TTK on ESF but I'm pretty sure you're dieing because he knows how to lead properly while evading. an Increase TTK is just going to make everyone else trying to do AA life harder, I mean look at the lib update. Dramatically increased TTK and there are over a hundred threads about it.

The coyotes and lock-ons didn't work either, just means they only have to do 60% of your health (which is half a clip) then finish you off with the tomcat/ coyote actually reducing new players chances in the air.

Only thing they can do which has probably been said since the dawn of this game "reduce resource and acquisition to ESF". This allows new pilots to stay in the air, experienced pilots don't have those restrictions. But of course even this will probably be *****ed at by infantry who'll complain about more "lolpodders"

It's really a no win situation, you just have to make it your business to master it. Don't crap out after you get shot down and pull a tank, you wait that acquisition timer out! Get back up there asap, every day, until you can survive more than 5 minutes.

When it comes to certain aspects of some games, any of us can be elitists regardless of actual performance level.
I was going more off the underlying "tone" of this: "making the air game more noob new player friendly" ...as well as your conjecture that the biggest limiter to uncerted pilots is their ability to spam vehicles. I'm not saying you're wrong there, SOE's datamining on that isn't readily available to help prove or disprove that. But it is an elitist view in the sense that it ignores or passes off as skill the reality that throwing 1000's of certs at an ESF results in steep levels of Power Creep once you understand all the upsides of certain upgrades.

But my main point which could also be seen as elitist or purist itself, was that just having rocket pods themselves results in such a stark increase in SPM from such a "target rich environment" on the ground; that they basically pay for all the other upgrades and keep those "Elites in Training" glued in their c*ckpits day after day. Again, I'm not saying it's a substitute for skill or that you or I or them are "false" elitists for either stance on them and ESF's in general.

I'm just saying that ESF's in general are allowed to be too effective against Infantry specifically, both at the Skill floor (rocket pods) and at the skill ceiling (specialized fully certed nose guns and Scout Radar or other niche utilities and loadouts). IOW: There's too much "Carrot" there already in this equation for the A2G game and almost NONE for the A2A game. Infact the entire A2A meta is misdirected and focused on Grind instead of getting better. (again: too much focus on Passives/Frames &/or Stealth/Lockon cert upgrades that don't actually "pay" for anything cert-wise unless you get super lucky with the killing blow on an Extreme menace RocketPodder -- meanwhile Vehicle assists NEVER pass on that menace XP like they should).



...Then again... maybe I'm the one who's an elitist for thinking people should face punishing and negative reinforcement mechanics for carelessly spamming air vehicles when more experienced opponents are in the area. When I'm in my MAX burster or camping a Tower/Tech/Amp A-A array, that's my main goal infact: punish every single "noob" in sight. Sometimes I'll deploy a sundy as bait just to attract even more of them. Perhaps I'm wrong and maybe ESF's need a much reduced respawn Timer and/or lower resource price. But one thing that definitely needs a respawn INCREASE or nerf against A2G, is all the ESF's carrying rocket pods. They're the only reason besides Zephyrs that infantry people learned to truly "hate Air" and wish to see it punished with long C/D's and higher Res costs.

few posts above u. as apparently u are having difficulty seeing it i shall post it again in caps: THE VR TRAINING AREA IS THERE FOR A REASON.

Someone below u says the VR doesnt help in combat situations: u can have a little duel in the VR with someone, re-enacting combat situations like hover duels etc. if u want it to be real u can go on PTS and practice, or go on another char on a quiet server with a friend and practice fighting each other.

Fly with someone who knows wtf it is theyre doing and can help u. Teach u about awareness and when to attack, when not to..

heres a few tips for free if u wish to get into a2a battles:
-sit on the flight ceiling and watch. pick out enemy aircraft flying low and going for attack runs in situations where its perhaps not wise for them to do so. then u sweep down on them, giving u time to align ur gun and lead onto the target.. enabling u to put almost an entire clip into them before they know wtf is going on. on amerish and esamir this is most effective, or the north of indar where the flight ceiling allows u to stay out of render distance.
-Flank! ur in a very mobile vehicle so put it to use. Don't come from predictable directions all the time where AA or enemy air will be looking in the first place. Thus u get another bit of the element of surprise if ur coming in from high to the side. Enemies rarely look in these places. If its safe to do so by all means cut round behind and come from their own lines. That is however a bit more risky if there is a lot of stuff in the air.
-If the enemy aircraft seems to be escaping - know when it is prudent to let them live! Over-extending is a common mistake new pilots make. They see a baddy and they have to go after him to his death and ultimately ur own. I am sometimes guilty of it when i feel slighted that someone has the audacity to survive for so long against me lol. Before u know it u have a gangbang as ur eaten up by several enemy esfs or a bunch of AA with nobody to help u.
-Bind ur pitching to extra mouse buttons (in this day and age u must have a mouse that has more than the basic 2 buttons). It can increase ur turning in a fight, enabling u to get ur aim onto someone quicker when they are banking, doing a loop or whatever..
-How to turn the tables: if someone is coming at u kind of side on when ur at a slow speed/hovering, u can AB in hover sideways into their direction/to the side (basically consider it a sidestep as they charge u); ultimately they overshoot u and find themselves in ur crosshairs taking a clip in the backside as they struggle to turn to find u again. By which time u can hover around them, effectively running rings around them and finish them without their being able to lay another shot on u. so on so forth..

Hope this can help some of u guys finding it difficult to get into the air game. As i said before; i was terrible at flying in any game and it was no different here. But i persevered. i spent a long time in the air learning and practicing, and dying, to get to being half-competent. There is no other way to learn.

iller: I havent really been able to deploy rocket pods for quite some time due to enemy air being far too popular. cant afford to go into the inevitable a2a battles at such a disadvantage with rocketpods when i really need the extended AB or coyotes. The air is now the Liberator's realm since the last patch.

I disagree, Air is 1/3 of the game, You are saying lets make 1/3 of the game unplayably difficult for new players, That's a no no.
Like with Infantry and Vehicles, The skilled players will do well, but Newbies can pick up an ESF and at least pose a threat to even highly skilled players, Just like with Infantry and Vehicles, As it is right now, It is near impossible for a New player to pick up the Air game and do anything remotely useful or decent, It shouldn't be like this.

Actually with the release of coyotes, squads of scrubs fly in packs and not even aces are safe from them. Coyote spam has once again turned the air into a mindless who-jumped-whom-first spamfest.

They were just starting to get players back into the game with PU02 who left because the air-game was so terrible - and now it is right back where it was with A2AM spam. Boring and mindless, rewarding people who fly with lock-ons who fly in air-zergs.

People keep asking for the airgame to be more accessible, not realizing that:

• Any OP easy to use weapon you add to the game is going to end up in the hands of aces, who will end you even faster with them (such as Coyotes)
• These changes eventually drive all skill from the game making it uninteresting to anyone ultimately.

Stop demanding the air-game be dumbed down, and instead start demanding new players be given a way to pull aircraft more often. You ARE going to get shot down a lot - that is unavoidable in a good game if you are new. Don't ask for the giants to be cut down to your level, or they will leave - and many already have. What you are calling a really hard air-game is a joke compared to what it would be if the great players of past still even played this game.

Squads of anything will always dominate everything, air should be no different. Simply join one of those air squads and suddenly you're not being attacked by an air squad. Shooting down aircraft with AA weapons IS fun and it is often very rewarding.
Unless you play exclusively during primetime, there is always a continent with empty skies. People fly near the warpgate because that's the only place with a chance of encountering another esf. Get racer airframe and afterburners. If you meet another esf than blast away to safety.
If there was no way to learn aerial combat, nobody would be a pilot. As you said, you have no chance of learning to fly, that goes for everyone.
AA works against any aircraft. Aircraft can stay near the height ceiling, but they're not accomplishing anything up there. And aircraft render long before tanks and infantry render, there's no reason they should ever sneak up on you. If somebody is 100x better than you, you should have 0% chance of winning.
You can look at my stats and see that I'm fairly below average, and I can fly okay. I've even won a few dogfights.

I never got why people bash ESF pilots...When on average dedicated MBT drivers have a higher KDR and a higher SPM. It takes more skill to pilot an ESF than it does to sit on a hill and shell a spawn room.

They don't need to lower the skill ceiling. There are other things that can be done to help new player.

• Add moving targets to the VR trainer
• Add dogfighting to the VR trainer(at least add hitmarkers on friendly ESFs)
• Make the locust cannon cheaper, or free
• Make flares available from the beginning, or at least 30 certs for lvl 1
• Make the rotary noseguns start out with a larger magazine
• Make the first airframe cheaper
• Everyone starts with lvl 1 composite armor unlocked
• Make hard landings take less damage
• Drop the price on every lvl 1 upgrade that I haven't mentioned by half

Seems like everyone decided to steer clear of my post.

Why should flying a ESF be so much harder than driving a Tank? Right now ESF are pretty damn effective IF and only IF you are at the top 1% of ace pilots. Where a tank can be effective right out of the tutorial.

I keep seeing players here state that new pilots need old pilots to teach them. This doesn't happen with any other vehicle. No one has to hold someone's hand to learn how to MBT. They just learn it from trial and error. This isn't the case with ESF and it shouldn't have to be like that.

Something has to give or change.

That was one of the major things that made me repeatedly rage quit when I tried to learn how to fly A2A properly; getting shot at because I was looking the wrong way or flying in the wrong direction. The addition of the engagement radar made that much easier...except it ***** you hardcore when you try to swap the 'training wheels' for something like fire suppression.

That and it turns out that simply swinging your mouse around is an excellent way to get shot out of the sky without ever being able to actually face the guy who's lighting you up while doing that reverse thingy.

I agree with this post. The central reason the air game is so hard to get into is the physics and controls for the aircraft are both absolutely awful.

There are other problems you can pick at with it, but those are the main issue.

Flying an ESF is going to be harder than driving a tank, that's just how flying is. Simply put, the standard for ESFs is to fly fast and around objects to stay alive. That is not easy for someone that is learning to fly, there is a lot going on and it gets confusing. But what can possibly be done about that? Anyone who wants to fly at a slower speed should look into flying a lib. Not saying libs don't take just as much skill, but they do offer more armor and are more effective at a great distance.

As for the only the top 1% being effective thing, that's not true at all. I'm not even good and I'm able to take out vehicles, libs, and infantry all day long. And I fly solo 90% of the time. Yes, it's not just "hop in and farm" like with a tank, but it's a plane, not a tank.

Oh I agree completely. Let's make it so a2a missiles kill an enemy ESF in one shot, god knows the a2a game in PS2 hasn't been neutered enough.

The vehicles you said you engage are not what the OP is speaking of. Against anything that isn't another ESF, I'd say things are roughly ok (there's issues, but not what the OP is talking about). But against a ESF, an average flier like you might just get one clipped within seconds, even if you got the drop on your opponent.

One of the things I've suggested in threads on people asking what to do is Full Racer 3, Rotary, and Afterburner Pods. Basically get in fast and hard on someone. If they don't die within 2-3 seconds, and maneuver around you, point towards your WG and AB back at 350kph+. Reason for this is most new pilots can't dogfight those who have been playing for a even a few months. Average pilots have no chance against aces.

The skill ceiling is so high that you can't even get teammates to run with you up there like you can on the ground. And dying right out of the WG means a 5-10min wait. Most people just say screw it and leave it be. That needs to change. We have aerospace resources for a reason yet I'd wager that 90% of players sit at 750 all the time unless they pull a Gal once in a while or use a ESF for a single seat transport.

I get it that moving in a 3 Dimensional environment is different than the ground. That should be the ONLY thing more difficult than a tank. That should be offset by the fact that you are NOT on the ground. But it isn't. The Crysis Mod, MechWarrior: Living Legends has a good example of how air can be usable by anyone out of the box. Its tricky, yes because you're flying. But you're hundreds of meters from the ground and can avoid many dangers that ground vehicles cannot avoid. In MWLL even an ace pilot can get messed up by an average or even a novice who gets the drop on them. They have to fly back to their home base and pray they can land with possibly a hostile on their tail (as Aerospace Fighters are not Vtols in that mod).

One way I would fix this issue is change how ESFs are flown, such as removing the reverse maneuver, or rather restricting it to happening only when the landing gear is out to facilitate quick take offs. Using AB while thrusters are pointing down in hovermode flips them to horizontal mode and boosts the ESF forward instead of up.

Again like I said before, it would suck for many who spent time mastering it. But it would allow SOE to buff the ESFs in other ways. Such as anti-lib duty. Right now they can't buff ESF against Libs because the top pilots would be invincible against them. If the skill ceiling is dropped a bit, this wouldn't be a concern. The skill celing for a ESF should be the same as all vehicles, minus the 3D portion. If anything they should be the same as Galaxies and Liberators, which are only marginally higher than tanks.

I think they could do this fairly simply without even hindering the air game by simply making hover mode a button you press to go into it or maintain. As it is right now you have to learn the RM before you can fight in the air and then spend time mastering how to keep your plane into hover mode.

Seperate A2A and A2G fighters, like PS1.

This is IMO the only thing that will allow the Air game to actually be balanced.

Just wait for the PS4 release. Aircraft will likely be simplified for those controllers.