Lower the air skill ceiling

I just flat out don't enjoy flying in this game so I don't. I can't see them changing it to a more realistic or standard flight model and also no support for Sticks so I just stay on the ground.

4 pages and no mention of confusing control scheme yet? I got to fix that.

You have a few options.
Fly the best ESF- mosquito,easily the best ESF to fly.
Fly with a squad
Practice flying in VR you'll be surprised how much you can pick up there.

You are right. Flying in this game is for kids. Real men play flying games with real physics, damage model, engine management, different gun conversion ranges, forced in cockpit view, trackir support, and joystick support, etc..etc..

Add aimbot while you're on it can you?.... but seriously, there are pilots who have been flying for over a year, and you exepct to take them down within a week?. Skill cap should be higher if you ask me, on ground and air.

Theres more than a few control issues that need to be address, most certainly. And it would help a lot of people starting out.

There is a VR for a reason.

There are many pilots out there willing to help new pilots learn.

There are quite a view youtube videos explaining maneuvers. Employ them in the VR until u have it down.

Then patience and a lot of dying - practice makes perfect.

I have been rubbish, like, terrible, at flying in every game i've ever played. However i felt i was missing a huge chunk of PS2 by being unable to fly so i was determined to learn. I did all of the above; i looked at youtube videos explaining the reverse maneuver and other little things that go a long way with regards to how to engage enemies, when to sit it out, so on so forth. I jumped into the VR and practiced a ton. Once i got those maneuvers down i went out into the live game and generally avoided a2a as much as possible until i got better at the flying. This of course results in many a death.

130-40 hours later in the reaver i will only balk at engaging a handful of pilots on Miller but by no means am i an 'ace'.

Mattiace may have somewhat of a reputation for whining about game changes to the air game but he and others speak truth when they say u cannot farm certs in an ESF the way u can in a tank etc. U will spend a lot of time having to hover about at the edge of a battle watching because theres too much enemy air or AA. And it is very easy to keep ESFs out of a battle zone with competent AA.
This is one thing that so many people completely disregard when they're new to flying - see newbies go in on their own for a a nice low-angled, predictable attack run.

Also know that some times its just not ideal to fly! if ur seeing an enemy air zerg about with their **** a2am lock on jazz, dont bother. Try it in lower pop-times.

I never mentioned anything about it being for Kids. I just said it's not for me. My preference is a more realistic setup with regard to physics and controls. If you like the current set up then good for you, that's the good thing about this game, plenty for everyone.

This game would have been awesome if SOE were encouraged by its players to make the game challenging and dramatic instead of easy and played-out.

I can understand your frustration. I to wish i could be more effective in the air. As an NC player the sky seems to be full of Mossies and even Scyths fly in large numbers.

When i tried to learn i felt the learning curve was too high i always seemed to be out numbered and the fights i got in were over so fast i learnt nothing and unlike infantry play i had to wait before i could try again. I left the game for seven months as imo the combination of the large TR air wing and the striker just made me frustrated. BUT I WILL NEVER AGREE THAT SKILL LEVELS SHOULD BE DROPPED TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. Some players are just that good as in real life people are gifted and should never be hamstrung to give people like me a chance.

I am one of those people that understand i will often lose to a better player but derive great pleasure when i know i out played and beat a better one.

SOE have created a problem that i honestly don't know how they can resolve it. Many of the natural flyers at the games introduction have gone to the TR faction attracted by the flying attributes of the Mossy. Then like kids seeking the protection of the school yard bully others have joined the same faction knowing they can fly more often under the protection of these numerous pilots. To be fair at this time imo the mossy is probably the weakest ESF at the moment BUT the TR faction has had such a long time to train and survive with their large numbers they are able to play a part of the game i can only envy. This is often reflected in the large number of TR LIB pilots that are also excellent through time spent in the air training in combat while often protected by their smaller brothers as the game intended.

Unfortunately it feels that NC has abandoned the air and when i try to fly i feel i get very little support from the ground as it appears that NC just doest understand the combined arms side of the game as they have limited experience in the sky. There are some excellent NC pilots on my server but when you look at their time spent in the sky it is often significantly lower than the other factions as lone pilots can have a very limited affect on the game and will be pulled down by a more numerous enemy.

As seen on youtube there are some excellent NC an VS pilots out there but on most servers they are simple mobbed of the map by shear numbers just as crows will drive off a buzzard.

I also play War thunder in that game i will quite often get into a large dogfight with multiply foes and come out with 6 or more kills. Planetside is a lot different in this game numbers count and the new weapons have made that even worse the few times i get into a dual with an equal opponent i will lose as his numerous team mates no longer having to risk mid air collisions will stand off and fire coyotes or tomcats into me despite being level 100 themselves.

So what can be done well VR is nice but i would like to see a moving esf in there so you can learn to manoeuvre around it and see the effects of bullet drop both from range above and below. Apart from that its human nature people will join the winning side use the strongest weapons and so on as with the coyotes,Tomcats nerfing of Rotary weapons people use what ever will give them the edge expecting the excellent flyers to not also grab these weapons is very naive. TR have a huge advantage in time spent in the air to horn their skills the scyth is now seen as the new top dog in dog fighting but starting a new faction and unlocking an ESF is a big ask and also goes against the other games idea of faction loyalty.

So what can be done i for one as previously stated believe skill should never be handy capped. i also believe (from my very limited knowledge) the ESF are as close to balanced as can be without being clones. The noise and hit box of the Reaver as an acknowledged NC player feel unfair it always seem to me that the Reaver was the hardest ESF to learn but was superior when mastered. The problem being that crossing that threshold has frustrated many players to the extent that people are not even bothering now (which is again imo a reason why too many flyers join TR as the Mossy has an enviable reputation as a nice flyer). The resent patching of the ESF have hurt the hover fight and the vortek rotarty which were the two main redeeming features of the Reaver.
Possibly the introduction of a NS ESF may help restore a balance certainly in the NC arsenal I cant see TR swapping out their Mossy or VS giving up their Scyth but certainly i would expect to see More NC in the sky what ever happens the longer its delayed the worse it will get as there is no substitute for play time in your faction ESF.

Someone needs to win. Why do so many people feel the game is broken if it isn't them? Ridiculous.

Conclusion: Skill ceiling for infantry and tanks is too low.

Honestly I think the #1 major hurdle for new pilots is situational awareness. It has nothing to do with the weapons or controls. I see new pilots all the time pulling ESFs and then heading straight towards the center of a big base battle - nose down - looking the ground. If there is enemy air there already they often ignore it and obviously get a bogey on their tail in a matter of seconds and get destroyed for it. if there is AA then they get chewed up because they don't probe the base defenses to get a feel for the situation.

Looking around all the time, determining the all the threats and finding and opening to exploit is like 90% of good piloting. I' not sure how you would go about teaching that short of practice or tutoring. One thing is for certain at least and that is that purposefully lowering the skill-ceiling is TERRIBLE idea - for any area of the game. It flies in the face of any notion of good gamedesign. If that's not what OP actually meant then ok, but that's what the topic states after all.

Getting past the steep learningcurve of flying isn't impossible by any means if you are determined. I didn't even try to fly until 6 months into the game - and when I started out I could barely keep from crashing as I had always been used to flying with yaw on my mouse and roll on the keyboard (which is not possible to rebind in PS2 currently). It's really just about practicing a ton. I do agree that the learning curve steeper for air than most other thing in the game, but that is almost unavoidable given the nature of flying a glass cannon in such a large scale game like this.

-Stigma

I've completely given up on Flying in this game, Way too difficult and almost impossible to learn, Gotta love Scumbag ESF's camping my Warp gate, Sitting there to instantly shoot me down.

So I Agree OP, The skill Ceiling should be lowered enough so it is at least Feasible for a Newbie to pull an ESF without being instagibbed.

Also, How do you learn to fly, when you can't get in the air long enough to learn to fly?

This pretty much sums up what I've witnessed with NC in particular, but affects all empires. NC have it harsh as there's nothing empire specific about the Reaver and the entry skill ceiling to it is much higher than with the other 2 ESFs.

But as he said above^ How do you get experience if you're dead before you get experience. VR only helps with flying, but fighting is a completely different animal.

I don't care that there are these good pilots and they started as newbs too. But now they're preventing other people from entering the airgame. It's not like a tank or Infantry where you have either plenty of time to react or unlimited spawns. You can't learn if you're constantly starved for air resources and on timer because you keep getting ganked.

Something to keep in mind, I make my comments from the view of, as I consider myself, an average pilot. I'm not looking to make it easier for myself, I can do that on my own, but there are plenty of other people who just give up and that bugs me a little as it's also another reason for people to quite the game. And I'd rather take reasons for quitting the game away where possible.

My2Cents

Frankly, if they listened to the experienced pilots, they wouldn't have put in the stuff at all. They had countless suggestions for how to help the air skill imbalance issue (if you really maintain there even is one... Imho good players > bad players... Simply...) and ignored them, instead choosing to put in overpowered and irritating weapons that are most effective in the hands of veteran players (not least because we're the only players who can actually afford them...).

I'm not sure how they could make the game easier without breaking it. I'm sure control wise flying will be easier and more practical on the PS4. As far as the actual gameplay balance goes though I think ESF's need more overall health so that it takes at least two Dalton shot's to kill them and so they can have more time to get their bearings in combat and individual dogfights. The other big thing I would suggest is making the engagement radar a permanent cert line similar to the AMS sunderer spawn to open up a spot for flares.

*put anti fire suit*

Truth being said: the skill CEILING is very low in this game.
What's high is the skill floor.

Why i'm saying that? The way ESF works in this game, with defy laws of physics ****, is completely unnatural how you fly in this game and take some time to learn how to properly control your ESF. Making the skill FLOOR high.

But after you learn how to control your ESF you will only learn 1 maneuver. the reversal maneuver, (the one you turn your esf to any side using afterburn)

After you learn this single manuver you are on equal with any "ace" in the game in terms of control of ESF.

Why? going up/down barely change your speed. You can use the defythelawsofphysics reversal maneuver to turn your ESF instantly at ANY speed. so curves/turns aren't really affected by speed.

And you will eventually learn that AvsA in this game is resumed to circling around each other while hovering and shooting your enemy, while he shoot you, hoping he miss and you hit.

That's why the Air combat in this game sucks, imo, Skill floor high because of the unnatural controls and skill ceiling low because you can defy the law of physics and float in the middle of air, making 99% the maneuvers useless.

or they could, you know... put some actual physics in the game so a HUGE plane can't flip it's belly up shoot and turn back to normal like it is nothing. But i guess it would kill the "so gooddddd" air mechanics in this game imaright?

This isn't true if you make a valid comparison to the air game. When most people talk about air, they talk about 1v1. Put a noob infantry up against a vet in a purely 1v1 state (no outside influence of any kind) and the noob will get their a$$ handed to them most of the time because the vet will set up the engagement on his terms because he knows how the field works better than the other guy.

If rookie pilots want to go against the vets, they need to work in teams, as was stated earlier.

I don't accept your premise that tanks are somehow different than aircraft and some newb actually stands a chance or is any real threat to a veteran tank crew. I'm actually pretty adept at ground vehicles and when I run into skilled, veteran, tanks they obliterate me before I even get them to half health.

At least on the ground I can go infantry and attempt to avenge my death. More often than not it doesn't work but sometimes it does. When I get blown out of the sky it's very, very, rare I can even engage them with infantry based AA or even my skyguard. I've spent hours trying to chase them down before.... just when I catch up to them... they fly off accross the map.

I do accept your premise that even new players can get the drop on a vet and stand a chance. I'd say I'm at least an average player and sometimes a newbie LA or infiltrator gets the drop on me and dominates the engagement. Sometimes there's just so many bullets flying around and explosions pounding the area you can't help but die; regardless of your skill. Not to stray too far here but I would contend a truly good, veteran, player recognizes these Charlie Foxtrots and avoids them thus avoiding needless deaths... that's what really seperates your skilled vets from your newbs... situational awareness, adapting as the battle dynamics shift, and less about twitch reflex and accurate mouse control.

All that said... I say NO. Let the skilled players have their aircraft. It's truly the only high skill cieling, high reward, aspect of the game. Even really good infantry guys can get sniped, blasted by vehicles, or otherwise get owned with little recourse or time to react. It leaves an area of the game for veterans like me who are still striving to get better and want to branch out into other areas. Even after playing over over a yrear I still have a lot to learn about dog fighting. It keeps me interested and gives me yet more goals to work toward.

If you dumb it down even more you aren't even helping people like me who want to get better and want to fly ESFs. You can really only do it by nerfing the good pilots or artificially inflating the skill of bad pilots. I think it's fine the way it is now. The game doesn't need to be changed so that any newb off the street can log in and automatically be on par with veteran players in every aspect of the game. Lets just leave aircraft in the upper echelon please.