[Suggestion] Liberators need a Nerf

I didn't say they were "the" counter I said they were "a" counter. Are you really telling me if there were 2-3 of you in an ESF you couldn't beat yourself in a Lib? The other counters come once you understand how the Liberator actually works instead of the wild exaggerations people spread. As I previously listed, a Dalton at the sky cap is largely ineffective against mobile armor (due to travel time of the projectiles). You have nothing to fear as Infantry against a lib at the sky cap cause he won't even render you.

As for numbers you can't really dismiss them out of hand. A vehicle that requires 2-3 people to be effective should require 2-3 people to counter. One Dual Burster Flak MAX can't kill a Lib in a single load out but 2-3 can. A single ESF may have trouble with a good Lib crew but 2-3 shouldn't.

The core problem with the Lib really comes back to the way the current game works with vehicles and game play in general. The game is currently in a state where it's fashionable to take over a base and then basically camp the base into oblivion with infantry, vehicles and air. This leads to large amounts of stationary targets just sitting around shelling a base before it's taken over and a large amounts of stationary targets just sitting around shelling the spawn areas after that. Infantry ultimately end up only serving the purpose of being a farm for those vehicles or air. Even at a Biolab, the most indoor fight in the game, the pads are always ripe for a good Lib farm for one side or another.

When, if, they address that issue we might see changes all around. As it stands you're trying to put a band aid on a broken arm.

^^

This game has many RTS elements in it. The liberator is the only vehicle in the game that violates the basics RTS notions of balance. A liberator has no counter. And yes, I'm telling you that if I could somehow clone myself and have two of me in a lib and two of me in ESFs (with an AA loadout) it would be an equal fight, this is true for any skilled pilot (with a ground attacking loadout - nose gun and rocket pods, I'd be a dead lib). Actually the Liberator probably gets better as skill increases, comparatively I'm good at flying in this game (though in the only 3D space game I used to play, free allegiance I only attained an inter 13 ranking, so for ESF specialists I'm probably just average, it's just there are so many horrible pilots out there because the ESF is so good that intermediate pilots seem great in this game), but there are people who are much better and can probably be near unkillable in a lib without at least 4 dedicated ESF specialists trying to take them out.

Again, like I've said a thousand times in this thread the liberator can dish out more punishment then anything in the game: A Dalton lib can litterally destroy an entire tank column by itself. If you put that much power into something it needs a drawback, but the liberator has none. The lib has the highest tanking capacity of any attacking vehicle in the game, only the sunderer and galaxy can take more damage, and it effectively counters it's counter, the ESF, most skilled lib pilots hunt ESFs, they don't fear them. You can't have a vehicle that simultaniously tanks the most damage, has higher mobility then most attacking vehicles (only the ESF has better mobility) and give it the most offensive capacity against everything. That's just common sense, yet this is what the current liberator is.

And honestly the liberator doesn't really bother me that much. I'll just continue to use it and abuse it. What does annoy me is asshats like yourself trying to defy common sense and tell me this insanely overpowered thing isn't what it clearly is, when I can and do fly thing and know from my own experience just how rediculous it is.

Lol. Fail.

Infantry render at a maximum of 300 Meters. if the Liberator was at max altitude he could fire a million Dalton rounds down on your spawn and you would be fine.


Also if you've been pushed back into your spawn room and they have libby support, it's time to go to the next hex and get defences ready or prepare a counter attack.

Actually funny story about tank mines in particular (cause I was surprised at it too) they actually do very little damage to liberators, about 1/3 of your health per mine. I learned that the hard time, better to use one AT mine, 2 C4.

just a few minutes ago i played with guided rocket-launcher, max suits, engineers and turrets and we defended the entire base with just a few people against masses of air-vehicles like full equiped liberators with daltons and zephers or the normal air-fighters and galaxys and so on. i got points and points and points... i did just die a single time for an hour and more often at the end where they overwhelmed us with infantry but the entire time where i played today since 5am the liberators werent any problem to me or the other players. liberator? we just run back to inf-terminal and change to aa and it just took a few minutes to make them go away for another while after they came back to try out our aa, liberators are NO(!) problem. they didnt do any harm to us. the more problems we got with infantry and tanks around but managed to stay alive for very very long while and air wasnt any problem all the time with just a few aa-players. how do you explain this? liberator isnt overpowered or air unbalanced, you are just a bunch of noobs that dont know how to play(or dont want to pay) if you call air or liberators overpowered. we greeted them with some nice rockets or bullets and there wasnt much to fear about spawncamping or air at all. they came and run away, just fired a few shots into nothing before they turned or exploded.

this also confirms my experiences with liberators again, it is very difficult to do anything if the players are aware of defending with aa.

We get it YPHOS you're pro, which is why you talk about magically killing things beyond render distance, and everyone is a noob. That also explains why you have a self-admitted negative K/D ratio.

Next time you make up stories you may want to try something more believable, like flying gorillas.

As long as it is a single liberator you can defend the base with an AA turret amd 1-2 maxes. It will not die but it should not kill a lot before it gets dangerous and it has to retreat.

If there are 4 libs and a few fighters for escort, nothing composed of an equal number of players will stop it.

Also G2A Missile launchers are completely useless btw. They miss Libs very often despite lock on.

And you seem to have no idea at all what you are talking about. I have tried this with 5-6 AA maxes a turret, 2 ingis and a few HA. We got one Lib one ESF and then got killed really fast by the 2 next libs. Don't call people noobs if you don't know what you are talking about please!

or hits without dmg... or lol lib manage to outcome the missile... how slow is that damn thing?

they need to nerf zepher, damn long reload or no splash area or dmg nerf

Liberators need no nerf, they are still easy pickings for any ESF with half a brain.

Try changing your spawn point if you keep spawning and dying, that isn't the liberators problem, it's your problem.

@Azimaith

iam pro? other people would lough at it. i am no pro(lol) player, i am just a normal player tending to be good not very good or so. that i have fun and dont care about dying several times for achieving several tasks like killing a single sunderer or something else is no good explanation why i got a negative kill ratio because i risk something for my side? everyone talking like YOU must be a newb because other players didnt got such problems like always people like you talk about, come to woodman and try there flying with a lib. this wouldnt be fun for you unless you got some upgrades and flying skills with trained gunners to make it worth flying. i imagine you as the flying gorilla in this case.

1 rocket-launcher is more then enough to send 2 liberators home, with an additional 2 burster max-suite you likely destroy them if they come close and with an aa-turret your potential to destroy 2 libs is very high. we managed to stop more then 4 libs and a few fighters last hour with just a lower number of players. g2a guided rockets are the most effective way to make air-vehicles turn and i miss libs very rarely. did you know that shooting with guided-rockets also needs some skills and the right moment to shoot to land a hit? no, you people just fire and call them useless if your guided rockets didnt hit

how do you guys use your stuff? you played as infantry which means they must come very close to kill you and you didnt do any harm to them? the closer they are the easyer to hit and the faster they are dead, just 2 turrets and i cant stay long to kill infantry and it takes 2 magazines with zepher to destroy a single turret. the turret will destroy you in that time not even thinking about shooting maxes and rocket-launchers which will be my instant death. it would also take a full magazine or more to destroy just one max suite and you try to tell me that you cant defend air with 5-6aa-max+turret+engi+ha? O. o

liberator-pilots often cry about max-suits too far away to see them and getting noticeable damaged, guided rockets are strong on longer range and more likely to hit and do dmg. you cant tell me you are unable to defend a liberator with this stuff. i would just say, most people didnt buy this stuff.

I avoid shooting the lock on G2A missiles until they fly close or low, it gives them less time to speed away when it's fired and lock on time is faster. Same goes in BF3 with the lock on air missiles, don't use them from a long distance or you're wasting ammo.

There was one instance last night where I was seeing zepher rounds hitting the ground but I look up and couldn't see a thing, rendering in this game is so out of whack, same goes for those SCU shields at bases, sometimes the shield doesn't render but players and vehicles are still visible.

So uh, an ESF attacking a LIB is a "combined arms scenario" is it.

Quake, COD, BF3, P2Win.

Just because they can't see you does not mean they can't kill you. Bombs are bombs...Wow

Another Lib farmer.....Don't you dare nerf easy mode.

if you arent rendered in the right distance(which is 300m for infantry) by graphics nothing that hits you can kill you but you can kill them

dont you read the(entire) posts?

i would call being farmed by liberators the right punishment for people farming certs and unwilling to pay(for a rocket-launcher for example)

i got aa-rocket launcher, aa-lightning, aa-prowler-secondary, dual-aa-max-suite, aa-air-fighter and aa-backgun for my lib (but i confirm: it takes time and experience to use those weapons the right way, a30 walker is still one of the most ineffective weapons but can be useful if you know their handling - i make more dmg then with standard-weapons with the walker but i would call the a30 like most ppl too weak, like i posted before the aa-vehicleweapons still must become some accuracy-increases)

aa-weapons were the first weapons i bought and i used them very often since release, the rocket-launcher did always a great job for securing wide areas

Forget weapons, lower their damn health. It's incredibly unfair that it should take every missile in my arsenal to take ONE down, meanwhile they've got a few hundred MG rounds that can swiss cheese my fighter no problem.

Exactly.

It currently has about 2-3x the health it should. It should be a glass cannon. I'm fine with it having the power it does, but knowing that it pretty much can't be killed on top of that.

why shall anyone lower their health? it is good as it is, other weapons just need an improvement and it will be fair enough to escape and stay alive and doing no harm to anyone because you are unable to stay long enough or come close to do dmg. it is still an vehicle with very high timer and rescource-cost and no throw-away infantry. same with normal tanks with aa-ability staying on ground and shooting aircrafts or other tanks hunting infantry and they dont die for a while. lowering their health because they dont die very often is also nonsense.

people just have no problem with tanks and tank-zergs or tank-farmers because they think they can do something against them without buying anything and it is easy to find out ways for defence, but they farm also like liberators on spawnpoints or somewhere else and noone cares if so because it just doesnt attact them that way like an liberator does while shooting at an base and noone defending it the right way

OP's night in question:

"Ok I respawned, let's head outside and..."
*boom* Liberator killed you.
"Darnit, that silly Liberator! Oh well, let's go out again and..."
*boom* Liberator killed you.
"Argh! I know, I'll get my AA launcher out, let's go!...."
*boom* Liberator killed you.
"Dammit, the Liberator, being specifically designed as a bomber effective against mass clumps of infantry, but weak to ESF, is just too damn over powered and should be nerfed. Instead of pulling up an ESF fighter, or just not feeding the infantry farm and re-spawning elsewhere, I shall go onto the forums and get them nerfed!"

My reaction:

Quote found on this link:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/14/soe-president-john-smedley-on-planetside-2s-future-free-to-play-and-everquest-next/

Like i sayed, people are unwilling to spend money for good aa and 90% of the gamers are whining here about of they got punished from liberators while they play without any defence against libs to undergo buying anything. I didnt know this yesterday, i found this news today while searching for upcoming ps2 patches. There is like i also sayed still a balance-problem for accuracy at aa-vehicle-weapons.

Did you know liberators are already nerfed? Zephyr-dmg is reduced since almost 2 weeks, 2 magazines for turrets now and less dmg to infantry.

Sure, go ahead and take your lib to farm spawns of battles already lost and waiting for empty base caps.

Meanwhile I'll keep shooting down libs them juicy XP pinatas with my scythe or our dedicated outfit AA MAXs.

Protip - if a base is getting spawn camped by anything and there's no hope to get out, that battle is already lost, spawn somewhere else and organize a proper counter-attack.