[Suggestion] Liberators need a Nerf

You, sir, are correct. I love Lib gunner, and for all the wrong reasons that many people have already stated. And the post is a true story that has happened many, many times.

Serious question. Do you think the jets in BF2 are balanced?

I must be misunderstanding what you're saying.

You nearly got shot down.
Then you landed and repaired, no permanent harm done at all, the AA MAX units didn't get diddly squat.
Then you climbed back into the air from high up and murdered the dedicated anti-air units that nearly shot you down with total impunity, then you went on to farm experience where they couldn't hurt you unopposed because you exchanged a handful of words.

That seems like balance to you?

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you because that strikes me as a totally insane line of logic. A couple words exchanged is no greater team work than calling you out as a target from the AA maxes below.

@azimaith
last friday i went into enemy base with my liberator and started to shoot, i landed 3-4 kills and do you know what happened? a minute later a whole zerg of liberators and normal fighters with about 15-20 aircrafts came there and destroyed me.

do you know how often similiar things happen? 2/6 of the time i start to attack an enemy base they call in support from elsewhere and the rest of time 3/6 i have to undergo and avoid air-defences while merely shooting 2-3 magazines down and 1/6 of the time i fly a liberator i spam bombs on some noobs that can't defend themselfs

also:
how shall zergs of aircrafts gain and farm any certs if the certs are divided to all aircrafts flying around there? it will be very hard for them to get kills before the other guys do and if you are not in a zerg you are a possible target that not-upgraded will likely shoot down

dunno, i never played bf2. i also played the very first battlefield very very rare, i dont like it.

The fact that 20 people were there to drive you off didn't give you a hint that perhaps you have an undue impact on the battlefield? Is that what balance is? 1 vs 20 =balance? You still scored 3-4 kills before getting killed by 20 people, you came out at least 1-2 kills ahead than every single other person involved.

People always seem to act like only getting a handful of kills before dying is somehow some great downside. Its like saying "Man, there was like 500 dollars there but I only got 100 dollars before I had to go! Man, I got totally ripped off by coming off only a 100 bucks ahead!"

You could have pulled a skyguard and gotten zero kills but apparently that sort of thing is "alright" because you're only there to deter the mighty air gods who hover above.

The fact that your two players requires a response of a disproportionate amount of other players is the whole problem with the liberator (primarily that it has too much HP/armor.) Imagine if you weren't essentially lone wolfing it, because finding gunner for a liberator is as simple as typing "gun lib now!" in chat, and there was actually a full ground force with a sunderes, tanks, and a fleet of aircraft. Lets say side A had 20 tanks 4 libs, and 10 ESF and Side B 10 ESF and 20 tanks, and three times the amount of infantry you had.

Side B would be massacred if your ESF were of equal value. Its that simple. Liberators have a vastly overinflated impact on the battlefield simply because they can loiter and take kills even under heavy fire. Those 3-4 infantrymen could just as easily be one dead sunderer and all its requisite engineers in battle. If one side has equal forces except side A has a liberator and side B has twice as many tanks and infantrymen, side A would butcher side B just because of the liberators presence if the liberator actually picked out valuable targets (which is as simple as pointing at the sunderer.)

You are not entitled to free kills because you can click "Liberator" in the vehicle terminal. Kills should be earned, and liberators (I know from personal experience) don't require any more than picking a direction, tilting about 2 degrees to the left, and going at medium speed till you take significant damage. Even if a pass nets you zero kills if you come out alive you're not behind.

Libs have taken over top spot as the farming tool of choice. They sit at 999m where nobody can hit them from the ground with impunity.

Making spawns so small with many spawns that just have two doors that are 50 ft apart is poor design. Allowing tanks to pull up next to doors is poor design. Windows perfect for camping. I have to wonder if they didn't build the game with spawn camping in mind.

Its not the vehicles that are imbalanced, its the terrible base designs that lead to this.

no, thats just normal if i killed some scouts of a huge squad full of pilots fighting elsewhere and taking bases they come to me if nothing to do and on the continent they do because my side is always almost pushed back to warpgate. they just dont let me or someone else take anything to be the absolutely unstrikeable force on this continent. i could have also killed one guy that called in his entire squad but this doesnt happen too often, most times they call in just a few supporters because they are busy elsewhere.

man, getting a hand full of kills before dying if you count it that way it isnt balance: 1 death for you is one kill for the other side and a hand full of kills for you is 3-5 dead people on the other side where they get nothing for it. people just like it to keep dying as infantry and like it more then being killed by a liberator because a liberator is harder to kill(?) but it doesnt differs in the amount they killed and got killed? if you land a hand full of kills the other side must have some noobs that will not and thats the same thing with liberator. it would be fair if you kill 1 person and then die, this is balanced as infantry but it doesnt matter in the amount of certs you gain.

for example: me and another guy came to the same conclusion on different ways while playing, we make the same amount of certs as infantry and with liberator at the same time but with liberator you dont die that often. thats the whole difference. infantry just does spawn always after seconds and you kill or get killed and with liberator where you must be stronger because of timer you land more kills before you are dead, that isnt fair? for us it doesnt changed the amound of certs we got in the same time and we make without problems 100 per day.

infantry is made to be wasted and die very often but it doesnt matters your certgain, if you dont want to die then dont play infantry and cry about in forums

lol. you never used an liberator that way, or? flying at 999m doesnt render anything for liberator, you must fly at 600-700m to see turrets(they look very small) and in that range the turrets can shoot at you like also tanks. tanks are also rendered about that range and flying at 999m just makes you looking at other aircrafts, for infantry you must come down even closer to around 300m to 400m but the infantry can shoot you with rocket-launchers at 800m distance.

it is also very(!) very(!) hard at distances like 600m above to hit moving ground targets or also turrets but turrets are not that hard like moving tanks. what you describe with hovering at 999m and killing everything is just a myth, a dream created by players who never really used a liberator.

at 999m they cant see any spawns, they not even see the spawnpoint like a sunderer and if they would see the sunderer(what isnt allowed by engine) and shoot at him he can be very easy repaired because the infantry engineers become no damage at long ranges. if you want to kill the engineers around you must come close and if you are that close you are in shooting range for the normal bullets. rockets can hit you on much longer distances and also the max-suits you cant see while they shoot at you and destroy your lib if they are good burster-users.

The worst logic I've ever heard of, Mr. pilot. But then maybe you could explain to all of us how you are supposed to cap bases & objectives without playing infantry. Oh but then I forgot, people who sit and farm in planes get much better exp up high and don't need to cap anything to be BR100 ahead of everybody else.

The only problem I have with the Liberator is its health. I fired three rockets and a dozen MG rounds at it and when it killed me, the schematic at the "who killed you with what" post-death screen said it was at HALF HEALTH.

So through simple extrapolation, we can predict 6 lock on missiles and 24 MG rounds to kill it. That seems a tad much.

I'm still failing to see how this is an issue. You couldn't survive being attacked by 20 other people? So what?

First, you're not being coherent, I understand english may not be your first language so I'll go onto why I do understand. You're nuts. People don't "just dying over and over as infantry." This thread wouldn't exist. You are not killing people because you've "got what it takes" and they "just like to keep dying." You're killing them because you're free to bombard at will with a weapon that needs to only get within a handful of meters on a scope that highlights everything killable below you. A liberator costs more, yes, so you can get a couple of kills, but then you die, like every other weapon in the game. If they don't have air units against you, you don't die.

If a tank tries to take on 3-4 guys, any one of those 3-4 people can kill that tank, in fact they have a good chance of doing so. If one liberator takes on 3-4 guys in MAX suits, he sucks fire, flies off, repairs, and then targets them blowing them to smithereens then continues farming. News flash, those MAX suits you killed all cost resources, 3 would cost as much as your liberator.

This is a flat falsehood. You do NOT make the same number of certs as an infantry and with a liberator. You gain vastly more in a liberator (or in a tank for that matter) farming infantry. You think that those twenty or thirty people you blow up are killing 20 or thirty people in the same amount of time it takes you to restock your liberator? Mind you your cool down counts down even while you're racking up kills. The entire idea you think the experience gain is the same would indicate to me you have no idea what its like to actually play infantry. You've spoiled yourself with easy kills on the liberator.

1: Infantry is not made to be wasted. Each of those infantrymen is a player who is required for the longevity of the game.
2: Your certgain is vastly different in a liberator farming versus being an infantryman.
3: If no one plays infantry you can't farm anyone.

Frankly, you're spoiled rotten, and it shows.

ahh so the terrible players found something else to moan about? Libbys this time?

Really hoping you sorts leave this game soon... the ammount of trash a few of you spew on this forum is enough to drown everything else in tears.

Yeah, it would be terrible if there were any reasonable population left in the game, more room for l337 folks like yourself. Lets get these normies outta here.

God knows it wouldn't be a thread if someone didn't come in just to make self-aggrandizing whining about the original post.

In PS1 I was a dedicated lib pilot, a friend of mine and I switched places often with the lib and there was lots of counteris to the lib (automatic base turrets, manned turrets, AA MAX's especially Starfire and Sparrow MAXs, Reavers and the skyguard, yes the REAL skyguard was a threat). But in PS2, I geared out my lib, but rarely ever fly it because I want some action, with the lib you're shooting fish in a barrel because half the time you don't render to players on the ground and players that can see you try shooting at you from the ground but can't reach you. And right now, the lib spam is completely OUT OF HAND with the 3x SC+2x xp period, it's not even any fun playing infantry anymore.

you didn't read the entire thread? 1 liberator is for me as single infanterist absolutely no problem and i played more on ground then in air and i will stay more on ground in future, whoever is caping an base with an liberator just plays against noobs.

What? Teamplay? Multiplayer? Teamplay and thinking logicaly is overpowered?

No, i just kill them because they dont use their brains to defend themselfs. If i got killed by an liberator i spawn at warpgate and take my air-fighter. I wait for another player shooting at the liberator and then take him down with rockets and aa-bullets and if this is not enough i fly into him with kamikaze-attack. 20min respawntime and 300 rescources for Liberator are lost and if your enemy didnt got any rescourcegains from captured areas this will take effect for a while. Or if my airfighter is gone i could get a flash and rocketlauncher from another close base if he caps the spawnpoint to kill him or scare him away for other to come out. Did you know an liberator has with Zepher 6 shots before he must reload? Send 3-4 people out and let him shoot then go out while he is reloading and shoot rockets with your rocketlauncher. You fools just dont buy aa-stuff or are too stupid to defend your self. It takes just one person to take a liberator down like it takes one good person to take a tank down and it takes 1 max-suite at a good place where it cant be always hit too keep a liberator on long distance or higher speed. Instead you could also use a rocket-launcher for long distances which doesnt cost any rescources and can respawned all the time.

No i dont earn more in a tank or liberator, i just dont die that often but if you play the right way tactical with different classes fited for every situation you can make the same amount or more certs like in vehicles. You can crack vehicles also in just a few seconds as infantry, wheres the balanceproblem? The problem is the people just dont use their brains and call it unbalanced if players with lots of upgrades, certs, station cash and know how kill them.

The spawntimer or respawntime is the absolute indicator for you death-rate, infantry is more likely to die then a heavy armored tank. It is what it is like the spawntime intends: Cannon fodder.

I don't farm anyone, my deaths are still higher then my kills and i never told you i do so like i also dont think about changing my frequently deaths. I enjoy the game and like another guy i know from this game sayed the same thing after we talked about it: We make the same amount of certs with liberator and infantry what is about 100 per day usual and some few days we make 200-400 at one day... You guys just dont know how to get your points.

Actually I'm going to keep flying liberators and ESFs, because I like spawn camping and farming infantry. Just because I can abuse the system doesn't mean it's not broken though. I'm not in the habit of deluding myself into thinking I have super elite skillzors just because I'm abusing an obviously broken game mechanic.

Agreed. A slight reduction in health or resistance to HE damage, and a reduction in the Dalton's splash, are good ideas, as well as perhaps a bit of a buff to the shoulder-carried SAMs like the Hawk (not damage, so much as range). The Lib doesn't really need any more nerfs than that, and I say that as an infantry player and lousy pilot who gets farmed by the damn things all the time.

There are still lots of counters in PS2. If you don't notice a squad of AA MAX and AA heavies nearby, they can deal a *lot* of damage. When you're landing to repair your Lib, you could be caught out in the open against an enemy sniper or risk landing on a tank mine. Sometimes it can get really tricky landing on a landing pad and not crashing into one of the other Libs who are restocking at the same time as you. And there's always the risk of coming across an enemy Lib - one shot from a Zepher or Tankbuster and you're pretty much a goner.

Not another liberator whine thread. You cannot get out of spawn?
Oh boo hooo. Sounds like they are playing like champs to me.