An SMG, 1,000 certs or 7.00$. A necessity for a class. 7.00$ to get a class to WORK, or 500 kills. Half an auraxium medal just to GET IT. Not counting the upgrades and side grades that an infiltrator NEEDS. Where will you get those certs? Sniping takes FOREVER, and an ungodly amount of patience with its slow bullet velocity and paltry damage. Anyone that is running, which is EVERYONE, is immune to being sniped. Even by the higher caliber guns. Sniping is useless, and does nothing but provide people an XP pinata for the person unfortunate enough to be an infiltrator. If you go HA, LA, or CM and engineer to get certs. Why not just cut the crap and play those classes? Why waste money to get a class that is basically a nerfed engineer? With NO reason to be in any battle because terminals are the first thing to be destroyed by any competent outfit to deny usage during battle? The recon dart that does NOTHING unless you cert it like hell? Costing more than the SMG ever did that functions the same as YOUR Q BUTTON WITH VERY SITUATIONAL USE AT THAT?! The recon dart is the 2nd most useless thing in planetside right behind the flashlight. The snipers that are so crap that you're stuck shooting people standing around, AFKERS. A job anyone, even the crap beamer pistol, can do. A 100 certs for a sniper that actually functions like a sniper unless you are NC. All this, because SOE is afraid of infiltrators being "OP" with their peashooter SMGs in a land where shotguns and everything BUT the starting gear and scout rifles outclass it. The render increase? You'd be lucky to hit anything with a sniper rifle if it isn't running. Try sniping some time, its like pulling teeth. The SMG? As I said, its an expensive round-a-bout that would be better spent certing into any other class. The cloak can be seen in low setting, turning us into white ghosts that are begging to be shot. You think we're spoiled? Try playing the infiltrator and you'll see just how broken the class is. It has no purpose, the only thing that gives it any semblance of purpose costs 7$, and even then the purpose is tenuous at best.
yes there are 1 or 2 threads of poor idiots,that now complain if that abomination of cloak can actually sneak up on them and kill them big deal hacking is an incomplete role,if you want to hack you have to infiltrate,given how bad and situational this aspect is,and that the whole hacking thing is completely non rewarding,i claim that as an incomplete role In the enclave we never use infiltrators and so far we did just fine,the only role that the infiltrator can pull off on a constant basis is sniping,and Killing enemies in this game is not that big deal if you can only do that and have no way to harm vehicles. There is a reason if the infiltrator are going to get updated first dont you think?,we have some devs in the outfit,and we pretty much showed them that we and even the other top outfits have absolutely no use for them right now. if you wan a more solid proof check this out some data: top1000 in score for all servers (~9k records). Code: | MAX CM ENG HA LA INF ------------------------------------------------------------ score% | 5.36 8.95 51.19 18.07 10.87 5.55 playtime% | 4.45 8.61 48.26 19.85 10.99 7.84 score%/playtime% |1.21 1.04 1.06 0.91 0.99 0.71 the infiltrator has both the lowerst score in the game and the lowest playtime as well right after the LA
I agree that INFs could use a complete makeover. The sniper-model they used for them in beta just doesn't work, they should be infiltrators and not snipers imo. It is what they want and it is what everybody else want (afaik). But I guess people are angry because we also need a makeover (just look at our stats) but they postponed our pass, throwed a sound nerf that should come with a big survivability or weapon buff and made no other comments. So I don't think anyone should hate on INFs, but keep our situation in mind and remember what forum you're browsing.
I love the sound nerf. Imagine the situation, squad of LA! Move south and take the enemy HQ by surprise! And 12 soldiers starts their jets and go flying with a tactical bombardment under their bottoms announcing them in a mile. In the meanwhile the entire Platoon is rofling and pointing at them.
this is the most intelligent comment i have read so far both the LA and the INF should join forces dont fight between each other we both are the bottom of the barrel in PS2,and as much as i think that the inf really needs something coming with his update i also think that the LA needs a major overlook to promote it as a real storming class but please avoid statesment like infiltrator is an eazy class, SOE keep nerfing us Q.Q,infiltrators are the love babies of the devs,we too get our class screwed regularly every patch,because apparently the devs cant fix the low setting cloak after 6 months of game release
I also play infiltrator. If the cloak didn't work, no one would bother using it. Yes, it can be seen on low settings but even then it's more beneficial than not cloaking at all. I still have a better chance of using the cloak to evade someone than I do when spotted as a LA. Worst comes to worst, I at least have an AI mine that people love to run in to as they chase me. Can't do jack squat if I'm being shot in the air but hope I get lucky enough to kill the person shooting me or manage to get some cover. With the hit detection this game has, I'm normally out of LOS from my attacker on my screen but die anyway. LA doesn't two or three times better than than the infiltrator (heavies, medics, and engineers on the other hand...).
Dude, seriously go look at that thread I linked. total: {'infiltrator': 501, 'combat_medic': 474, 'heavy_assault': 1724, 'MAX': 22, 'light_assault': 892, 'engineer': 5351}
Hint: use Scout Radar. It seems like Pump Action Shotgun for LA is like Rocket Pods for ESF. And SOE seems to have made the design choice that it will keep the Shotgun/Rocket Pods, and nerf the units in other ways to compensate. Anytime you have a single unit that is being complained about for one thing by lots of other units, it will likely see a nerf. Justified or not. The best way to avoid getting nerfed is to have abilities that don't draw a lot of concentrated attention from everyone else. I agree Infiltrators have been getting all kinds of toys recently. And I've seen many Infiltrator items on the Daily Sales. But the Infiltrator continues to be bad because: 1) class consistently has multiple (negative) bugs in core areas (cloaking, sniping, hacking, recon darts, mines, etc.) 2) Infiltrator consistently underwhelms in its SOE described roles 3) Infiltrators are not "in high demand" in the Team Gameplay with other classes 4) Power Creep in other units (buffs and Cert progression) is making the Infiltrator worse 5) Many primary weapons for the Infiltrator are widely considered not worth using More details on the above here. I think HA, Medic, and Engineer are the most complete classes right now. They are versatile in many types of engagements, they work well together, and they are in high demand in Team Gameplay.
Prepare for revelation: the score differences is because the infis can't damage vehicles. LA can poop C4 bricks on lightnings and MBT to instagib them (400 and 500 XP) and almost kill a sundy (~350 xp sundy kill assist). End of story. And yes it is still underplayed. I think it is the same reason the heavies has higher s/hr because they can damage/kill vehicles easier - ranged damage. Just saw a video where a TE guy (the leader?) pulled a sunderer from a hacked terminal so even if you don't use them you need them. Also after that he went nerdrage and announced KOS on other terran outfits. Thats about the TE and using them in an argument.
you nailed it,inf cant damage vehicles,that's why they are updating the inf before the LA,because or either they allow the inf to do something against vehicles,or they drastically improve any other aspect,because vehicles right now are the CORE of this game and yes when the battle is over someone switches to inf to hack a terminal and then going back to a more useful class,if that's all the inf can do in competitive play yay for us
I'd rather have no LA revamp then the revamp they have planned. So I am not very sad that it got pushed behind. Gives them more time to find good ideas. Dual wielding? Really? I mean... REALLY? :/
Is that outfit using dedicated (so not just for quick switches like with the infiltrators) LAs for squads? If yes what are you guys using it for?
And now that they gave the Infi's SMG's, they will now have to factor that in so they don't make them OP which I think in the long run is going to hurt the class because they have fewer options now because infi's have a better weapon?
Balancing the game isn't really that simple. They read the community to figure out what could be wrong, and investigate the problem in order to figure out a solution that works for them. This solution attempts to correct the problem of LA being too versatile in their flanking, and only became a major issue with the release of pump action shotguns. The problem from the DEV standpoint is that they want to gear LA towards 1vs1 duelist which means we won't be effective soldiers but better assassins. Pump action shotguns support this play style perfectly, fast TTK but slow refire means target 1 dies quickly but targets 2 3 and 4 have a far better chance of taking you out. The gun is useless in PS2's combat basically, but excellent for those ninjas who let the power of OHKs go to their heads.
the enclave pretty much features aereal strike tactics,but sometimes we drop LA squads with galaxies on air to detonate other galaxies or to drop c4 on sunderer blobs but yeah we use them sometime but they are very situational that said we NEVER use infiltrators,our leader forbids use their use when we play in outfit,because we have no role for them
I hesitate to call it "balancing". It's more "reaction to overwhelming feedback from the community". There isn't a consideration for the health/balancing of the target unit that is causing the outcry (at least not until later possibly), there is just a notion to "quick fix" what the community is united and overwhelmingly complaining about. Sometimes the Devs decide to leave it as is, but often they knee jerk nerf the offending unit/weapon/ability/etc. Like the old proverb says: "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." Most Devs don't read the community. When I was a Dev, most fellow designers didn't read the forums and even ignored the player feedback they got on their content. Most Devs think they know what is best for the game and ignore player suggestions. The exception to this is if outcry on a particular issue is so strong and so uniform that the Devs all get wind of it, and then there is pressure on the Designer to address it. PS2 could well be different with their Roadmap community feedback approach. But I would expect that only extends to what goes on, and how to prioritize their Scrum features list. You know LA much, much better than I do. I'm not saying any nerf is correct/justified. I'm just saying that if your unit riles up the rest of the community then it is likely to get a nerf. I used the Rocketpods analogy because it is another example of a unit that riles up the rest of the community. I saw the ESF player thread discussing the idea of nerfing Rocketpods in exchange for other ESF buffs here, and thought it was a good way to explore what a class can ask for in terms of balancing/development depending on what key unit defining abilities it wants and what they are willing to give up. The best bet for LA (or any class) when they see the community getting riled up at them, is to as a group figure out the way THEY would like and post any potential change to be made. Not just be adamant that it's not OP. If they do not come up with a way, and Devs decide it needs to be "fixed", then Devs will either fix it the way the rest of the community is demanding or in a way that the Devs think up on their own. Neither is likely going to be as good a fit for the unit as what players of that unit could work out.
It's balance, however the goal isn't what the community thinks it is. The balance is being shifted in the LA class from CQC flanking to ranged flanking, more and more are going to use the weapons that are designed for moderate ranges as their CQC weapons become less and less effective due to changes to the core of the class. Most DEVs read the community, not the forums. There is a difference, reading the community means figuring out what the over all player base is saying. You don't have to read the forums to do this, you just have to view the data. The Planetside DEVs, however, are rather well known for their reading the forums. Many of the mechanics in PS2 have their roots as suggestions on the old PS1 forums and fansites, including the hex system, module base structures, jet packs, and vehicle terminals limiting what kinds of vehicles spawn there (that was actually my suggestion, in PS1 any vehicle spawn pad could spawn any vehicle except for Galaxies and BFRs, those required special pads. Every base had a BFR terminal though, which completely eliminated the point anyway). Other changes are a direct result of player feedback from PS1 that couldn't be done IN PS1 such 3rd person view being removed from infantry. Hell the current system used for hacking bases is based on something someone originally posted as a suggestion before PS2's beta phase even started, the tug-o-war system that we have now. I don't much care about the nerf. It has an impact, as pretty much everything the DEVs tweak does. However this impact is mostly hitting those who rely on CQC weapons like shotguns and C4. The only time I noticed the effect my sound had on enemies was when I attempted to get up to and C4 a lightning. My odds of accomplishing that task were slim as it was, I wouldn't have been surprised to have been spotted even without the sound, I just know that it was the sound that gave me away that time. This response might work in a game with a less attentive DEV base. However the DEVs of PS2 are the same as those of PS1 and they themselves play the game. This creates a lot of bias (both imagined by the player base AND actual bias on the DEVs part). They will do what they think is best, and I've said before that sometimes their decision making abilities are questionable. I realize that sometimes they don't get a choice, higher ups say what they want done and the DEVs can't ignore them. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong about them. I just know that thus far, they have repeatedly responded to "Rant of the Month" threads where someone riles up a point and eventually someone else gets nerfed. Which is why you will often see me riling against people who claim such-and-such weapon sucks and needs a buff, or so-and-so is overpowered and needs a nerf.
I don't regard every change as a "balance". I specifically regard jargon for balance changes to be limited to careful, thought out, fine tuning of the item being adjusted: getting the recipe *just right*. With the word "balance" being tuning to get something up to where they want it to be as a final state. To me, an emergency tweak is more about keeping a majorly bad/disruptive element out of the game. It is a "quick fix" and it does not equate to having had the luxury to be careful, thought out, and fined tuned. "Tomato, tomato". Most the SOE people I worked with(1) did not look at or care about data, and (2) did not have a strong grasp of how to read or understand data. To be fair, VERY few people do. It's not something most people have an aptitude for, it's not taught well in schools outside of a crude or hack alchemist style mindset, and there is no great demand or barometer for quality data analysis (most people prefer a good sales pitch or fabricated results to non-sensational analysis any day). I don't know the PS2 group, and there seems to be much more noise about Devs working with the community. So I'll just chalk up my past experiences to an old guard. Like most players, I love the idea of Devs who keep in touch with the community, the game, etc.
Well, ****, that's ******* odd. When I play mine I seem to snipe just fine. I seem to hack terminals while in my Outfit squads just fine. I seem capable of getting around behind and killing people in a group just fine with EMP grenades and an SMG. Maybe people are just bad. Odd indeed.
I've always said that Infiltrators aren't broken. Instead I believe that 1) they are played incorrectly for their design style and 2) they may be a little unbalanced. Broken though? Naw.
