12k NC cloakers failing to score a higher average total score then 10k LA kinda disputes this. Most people view situations regarding their class with something other then a scientific mind. In other words they take an introspective look and say "it feels right", because to them it does. However the data points to an entirely different situation. Simple logic will tell you that infiltrators do nothing except create blips on radar and kill people. They are obviously killing less then LA or HA because these two classes ALSO do nothing but kill people (they can't even make blips on radar) and routinely score more points on average and average/min. You can use the "well people just suck at it" argument if you want. However if you are using a mechanic in a game where you are having to work around every built in weakness that seems specifically meant to prevent you from doing exactly what you think you are suppose to be doing with it? The cloak is literally getting people killed. The few exceptions, IMO, are good infantry. Not good infiltrators.
See I see the words broken and unbalanced as two different things. To me, broken, is pretty extreme, where unbalanced needs a few small adjustments to refocus it. Currently INF score on average about 1k less per hour exp than Light Assault. Both are the lowest two classes when you do compare all of them. I take my experiences, playing LA, and I find myself killing maybe 3 vehicles per hour using C4. I might be better than most, I might be average, I might be under average, I have no real way to tell other than my own experiences. Three vehicle kills can easily equal 1000 experience since I'm often destroying Sunderers, without boosts (same as the other metric). So if I take that metric, subtract that from our average score, seems that just from killing people, LA score pretty much the same as Infiltrator. Yet people don't use the word BROKEN to describe all of the Light Assault class. Yes, I know that is only from my perspective, but that doesn't equate BROKEN, which means "totally doesn't work." Cause that is what the definition of broken is to me. LA is decent as it is (needs tool, and to get rid of that damn boom to be fine imo.) Unbalanced in my opinion means something which doesn't quite work right, but it does work. Infiltrators need a small boost, sure, to bring them in line with the other classes. Maybe something like 3-6 exp every time someone in their radar dot range is killed would be all it would take to bring their score/hr in line with the rest (that could add up SUPER fast in big fights, hence the low number instead of a higher value per kill.) I do believe though that Inf are not broken, and therefor unusable, but instead they are simply unbalanced. Some may say "yeah that's just semantics" but it is still something I believe.
That is NOT the only thing your class can do. Therefore, NO the entire class is not broken. You guys just don't get it. This isn't even the Infiltrator forum, this is the Light Assault forums! Talk about derailing a conversation to something other than what it was supposed to be on. Why are infiltrators still trolling this forum anyways? Here's what I see in that video... an infiltrator jumping from really far up and taking absolutely no damage. (guess we gotta nerf their falling damage <--sarcasm, I don't believe that) I also see an infiltrator hacking something that he isn't looking at. (guess we gotta nerf that too, cause you should always have line of sight <--sarcasm, I believe it works fine right now) Finally I see an infiltrator dropping an AI mine, expecting it to kill the enemy and not themselves. Uh... that actually looks like it was working properly to me since that player likely had Flack Armor like many people do now-a-days. That whole video feels very much like what I've had a LOT of times happen to me a Light Assault (I get the drop on someone and they still own me.) So what am I looking at in that video that defines the class as totally broken and unusable? Sorry, the class is not broken. Unbalanced and underplayed yes, but imo not broken.
1) Up until the recent dev focus on infiltrators the following things were broken: prox mines doing 0 damage, wraith showing a tail light, hacking a terminal set off fireworks. Hit detection has been spotty on and off which can be real dealbreaker when you can only fire one bullet every couple of seconds. If you read the infiltrator forum, you can see that until 2 weeks ago NOTHING EXCEPT THE SMG worked as advertised. Recon darts are still pretty buggy (not activating, radius/ping wrong for cert level). 2) he was right next to grav lift. He had probably just used it, and you get 5 seconds of fall damage immunity from grav lifts. 3) So it's totally legit that the guy who was in the turret kills the infiltrator before he is rendered for the infiltrator?
You can't just strait up subtract an abstract number you pulled from your own stats from the total average of anywhere from 8k-10k players over the course of a week and expect to get a number that makes sense. This isn't math, this is broken math, doesn't work and that was a whole paragraph of nothing to be honest. Subtracting that number would likely have raised the average, because 1k over the course of a day compared to averages over the course of a week would have dragged it down. No LA aren't broken, I never used the term broken or even unbalanced to describe either class. Infiltrators at this particular moment are flawed, they are overly geared towards sniping and sniping does not play a large enough role in the game to warrant an entire class dedicated to it. Now they are slowly throwing more and more stuff at the infiltrator class and they aren't keeping up with the balance aspect or the changes being made to the game as a whole. More and more infiltrators are picking up SMGs and going all CQC ganstah style and the classes primary ability is simply not built for CQC operations. Anyone can pick up a gun and do what infiltrators do, that cloak gets them killed more often then not and only those who can take advantage of truly chaotic situations can benefit from being able to cloak. Situations where cover is readily available, movement isn't needed to any large degree, you can constantly change direction to throw off visual perception, and there's a crap ton of noise around to mask your wooshing. That is a lot of factors that absolutely have to be added up in order to make the current cloak excel in CQC situations.
Fair enough, infiltrators definitely need the love, though not sure why they cant redevelop both classes. Bit concerned that they are going to make the class accidentally overpowered as the recent changes to sniper rifles have made infiltrators decidedly more deadly.
1) Prox mines also affected Engineers, are they broken? No the mines were broken. Wraith was broken? No, wraith was buggy, NOT INFILTRATOR. Fireworks happened to every class, are they all broken? No, hacking was broken. Hit detection has an effect on all classes and has absolutely nothing to do with infiltrator. Again, infiltrator isn't broken. Recon darts buggy? Sure, I've experienced it myself, but that doesnt "break" the infiltrator. Saying nothing works, when I know that the exact opposite was true because I do pull infiltrator sometimes, plus I do talk to other infiltrators in my outfit, doesn't really get me to agree with you. All of those are PARTS that are buggy, not necessarely broken. You want a list of stuff for LA that has been that way? Hit detection, C4 doing no damage to objects like tanks and turrets, jump jets that are effected by lag so much they don't let you get off the ground, jump jets that took 7 months for the certs to 'sort of' be working like they are supposed to be working (still debatable to some). That doesn't leave a lot of capability left for the Light Assault either. Guess they are a broken class too.... oh wait, no they are not broken, merely buggy. 2) Not in the video, have no way of knowing. Might (probably) be true but still, it isn't what I see as a light assault player. 3) YES that is legit. Like I said, happens to Light Assault ALL THE FREAKING TIME. Welcome to the club of client side programming. ------------------------- Plus this post is about Light Assaults, in the Light Assault forum, stop trying to troll and derail the conversation. Light assault is the only class that they have called "unfinished," mostly due to the fact there is no team roll, plus no tool for the Light Assault class. Put that in the game and I would have absolutely no problem with the fixes for Infiltrator coming next. Yet even Higby himself has stated that LA is unfinished, so I feel it is not right to push them off for another class multiple times. LA players just want their class to be as finished as every other class, which it is not.
Responses in this thread are amusing. Pretty much every end of the spectrum has been covered. I don't see why people are so upset a out Infiltrators getting a class pass before LA. I used to play Infiltrator as my primary class all the time, but now play LA instead. I'll still snipe when the fight suits, but otherwise the LA does eveything else better. Infiltrators really don't need much and I think most players will be happy. The biggest thing is Infiltrators are the only class that has no way to deal with vehicles other than avoid them. I think a lot of Infiltators would also like the cloak/graphic setting issue fixed. At the end of the day, every kill I get with an Infilrator I have to work much harder for than any other class. I also never once felt the LA was lacking in any real way. Sure they can use some tweaks, but every class can say that.
What I don't get is why, if the LA is supposed to be the flanking and ambushing class (even if spoiled baby Infiltrators try to claim that role, best to ignore them as the average Infil player is a 14 year old Call of Duty kiddie), they don't just give us increased damage from those angles. If I shoot someone from the side I should get 10% extra damage. If I shoot them from behind I should get 25% extra damage. This should be a LA only specialty to emphasize our flanking nature.
Well, in my experience, LA's seem to be very proficient in most tasks on the field. Flanking is damn sweet with the class, flying up into trees or buildings and taking 5 people off before you even get noticed, or C4'ing vital base defenses because you can reach them from unexpected angles. I played a lot as an infiltrator in the first few months, at times you're lucky and manage to pull off some really awesome stuff behind enemy frontlines, and at times you're so unlucky you seem to get shot from all sides rather fast without any hope to even flank an enemy. I wonder if the class specification could change based on the equipment you choose (Sniper or Infiltrator). What implications would that cause?
Why? Even with low-graphics users seeing a different cloak effect the infiltrators can and do get into bases and flip terminals and can do so relatively easily (I know, I have tried). They can also snipe (are the only ones who can) and they can do that really well. I have also been killed by plenty of infiltrators that use the cloak to sit in random corners and SMG people in the back- a lot. I have seen infiltrators do well solo by taking out groups of people using "peek-a-boo" cloak with an SMG and darts. Infiltrator can shoot a dart to see where everyone is located, turn more or less invisible and drop from the minimap if there are radars around, and then sneak up on people who are slightly separated and own them. True, infiltrator is one of the lowest scoring classes (right there with LA) but if people are complaining that the infiltrator cannot fill its role then they probably just need practice. I mean, I often use infiltrator to march into battle next to HAs because with the mid-range bolt-action and 1x or 2x reflex scopes you can OHK anyone from midrange to long range and even CQC if you practice. Not really even much of a need to use the cloak when you can drop people so fast. This, by the way, is forgetting all the cloakers who sit off in extreme long range killing everyone that stops moving for a moment. OHK from ranges where no one else (except vehicles) can really effectively fight back is huge- why does no one see this?
