Isn't it pretty alarming that the playerbase doesn't even know what the VS trait is supposed to be?

At this point I don't think they want to. People have been complaining about it for the longest of times and they haven't changed it for whatever reason.

Still true...

Lel pls let's not start this again

VS trait is plain and simple , overall better accuracy , easymode handleling for everything , smooth as butter , Grand-ma can play VS and achive a 2.5 kdr , Orion HA , Sva88 , Scythe overcraft no skills aircraft and much more

Those are all VS traits

agreed, VS have it easy with LMG's that have 2000 damage per magazine and AI maxes that gib up-close, but have ammo attachments to extend the range farther out that it should be.

I think my translator implant must have run out of energy. Those last two were a bit garbled.

Not at all. Basically higher dmg/mag puts the player in control of when they reload, rather than requiring it.

With a low-capacity weapon, you turn to see 3 opponents in a room and there's no way of taking them all out without some fancy headshot work. Which is a drastically harsher situation to be in than encountering opponents 1 at a time with a high-capacity weapon where at any point you can decide to backtrack a bit to comfortably reload. (Obviously facing 3 at once vs. 1 is inherently tougher, but we're only concerned about a fair comparison, so we're assuming you would win that 3-vs-1 fight if you had enough ammo. And I'm suggesting that running out of ammo in that fight puts you at a greater disadvantage in that fight than simply backtracking a little to handle the reload of a high-capacity-long-reload weapon.)

This isn't even true any more. (or was it ever?)
Half of VS/NC weapons shoot just as fast as the TR.

The term "faction traits" is a mythical fairytale designed to incite more interest in spending real money on identical factions with no identity.

And who says it isn't no bullet drop? Just because you don't get it on every weapon doesn't make it invalid. For example you list larger mags as a TR trait. Yet that isn't consistent across all weapons. TR doesn't get any larger mag size on LMGs compared to NC (who get the same plus there higher damage tiers as well), nor do they get larger mag sizes on semi-auto sniper rifles (like VS does with no drop), BASR, scout rifles, battle rifles, shotguns etc.... in fact TR get larger mag sizes on less weapon categories than VS gets no bullet drop.

Faction traits are things that a faction has, that no other faction has access to. Like NC with its 200 damage tier weapons, VS with no bullet drop, and TR with.... well I leave that for you to figure out what TR has that no other faction has access to at all.

It was supposed to be uniqueness. But since every time VS gets or has had anything to that effect, everyone screams and cries and gnashes their teeth until it's nerfed into oblivion. See Magriders, ZoE, the Cerberus, the Lancer, etc. Any time a VS-specific thing starts to shine it's smashed down until it's no more special than most things everyone gets. Comparing the tanks shows the general problem, Vanguard Shield wins fights. Prowler Lockdown wins fights. Magburner provides mild convenience. VS isn't underpowered by any means, but none of our faction specific things give us the ability to do anything truly special like a phalanx of shield-wielding shotgun maxes, or tanks sniping down aircraft. We used to have things like that, like magriders being able to attack from unique angles the others couldn't reach or jumping gaps/fleeing over hills, but it was taken away because of tears.

Join me, brother. Or sister, I don't know so I'll play it safe . But yeah, people only focus on VS being OP. Of course ,people like me only really focus on the opposite, but whatever, I try to have good, balanced, fun and constructive ideas. Not saying that I always succeed!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAQHAHAHAHAHAHUILHRSULEJ\OPG


But no, VS do NOT get easy mode. And Grandma is a compound word and is not hyphenated. adn ammo attachements? Nope, only Ext. Mags.
Scythe aircraft no skill aircraft? Lol, tell that to all those budding VS pilots who got shut down by their resident Mossies!
ould you mind listing your "much more" so I can check it's reliability and/or correct-ness to the best of my abilities.



...Lol.

Well... No, TR have a 909 RoF weapon. But eh, ES stuff is't really tha tcommon nowadays.

mate... do you even sarcasm? the only Weapon in the game that has 20,000 (not 2000, typos happen) damage per mag is the Gauss SAW. The AI MAX that instagibs up close is the ScatMAX...

You'll do well to note I specified AV. VS can get away with stuffing a silencer on their weapon and not have to compensate for the drop of a much slower round, which is part of the drawback to having a silencer in the first place.

Either way, the point still stands: the VS doctrine is to remove all those little annoyances the other empires have to deal with. The VS arsenal is intended to be fluid and easy to handle. They can afford to aim straight at most moving targets with their lancer for example, the charge is just risky but forces them to do what the other empires have to do with their ESAV as well: become extremely vulnerable to deliver their payload. Yeah, if you look at the "traits" on a case by case basis, things can feel muddied, but look at them as a whole, and we can see that the TR are speed and volume, the NC durability and power, the VS are efficient and in some cases, experimentally adaptable.

30 round 750 RPM at 143 max damage is perfectly capable of eliminating 3 people in one mag, even without fancy headshot work. Just normal headshot work will do fine, but that's not really my point. Thing is, taking all 3 at once would be a very stupid idea, so you will manouver, put only one of them into line of sight, use the corners to your advantage, and in the short breaks you may actually be able to squeeze a reload, which you would just not be able to do with a slower load weapon. Of course if you have a high DPM weapon and a position to take on all comers, you will get the same result in a slightly different way.

It's just a different playstyle, not worse, but different. Problems arise when people try to bend their guns to fit the playstyle, not the playstyle to fit their guns, because only one of those is flexible.

750rpm is a bullet every 80ms.
143dmg is 7 bullets to kill under 10 meters.
this means if your first bullet hits the first guy and your last bullet kills the third guy, you have 9 bullets spare inbetween.
using a ping of 160 (a bit higher than ping for most in low pop scenarios, but taking the anticheat software into account pretty realistic) you'll get on average no hitmarkers 2 bullets later than you should. so after the first 2 kills 4 bullets left. (ignoring any use of Nanoweave or Heavy shields, targets outside of 10m or similiar stuff)
9 bullets for the first 2 persons, 11 spare for the third, 4 bullets you have free to miss to compensate for reaction time and accuracy. or in other words, you have 4*80ms= 320ms to react and adjust your aim.

If you're going to make the assertion that TR and NC traits are well known and VS aren't then you at least should get the TR and NC traits correct.

What in the NC has heavy armor besides the Vanguard?

You're dismissive of zero-drop energy weapons as the VS trait...but that has universal consensus.
You dismiss maneuverability as a trait for VS but those are the defining attributes of the Scythe (hover) and Magrider (strafe). The Vanguard has heavy armor and you call it out though.

Sorry, but I think the TR, NC, and VS are all three well defined. Please tell me this isn't all just some elaborate bhuthurt "please buff my faction" thread because that's what it looks like.

I actually do care a great deal about faction asymmetry. One of the things that can keep a game like this fresh is having radically different factions that you can toy with on alt characters when you get bored. Not just that, but it tends to make for a more interesting game in general.

That's from a design philosophy stand point, obviously. The dev's ability to implement it is another issue entirely.

Well probably the better comparison is for both guns to be in that 3-man fight.

It's assumed you're going to try to manage how many opponents you engage against at once, but assuming you're coming up the stairs of those standard 3-story cap buildings you only have a limited ability to do this.

• With a high-capacity TR carbine, you have plenty of room for error (5720 dmg/mag) but still have to land a few headshots to make it to the end (especially if they have 20% bullet resist to the torso from nanoweave)
• With a low-capacity VS carbine, you either have to be very accurate with headshots or your 4290 dmg is going to be pretty tight for even killing two players. Sure while you're going to avoid stepping back in view of the 3rd guy during the fight, he will circle the corner on you while you're stepping back to reload and it all comes down to his reaction time to determine who rounds the corner first (which generally wins the fight on its own due to how CSHD works in this game.)

Basically if given a choice of all guns on any empire, the TR's carbines are going to dominate my carbine choices because of how powerful that bonus is.