Hrm... What if Infiltrators could hack abandoned Engineer turrets? There's been a lot of instances where I've come across engy AV turrets just sitting out there- and we could then snipe or knife the engy out, hack the turret, and start firing at the back of enemy tanks.
The infiltrator was able to hack vehicles in the beta but it was removed for some reason. Should just add that hacking mechanic back in that way the infiltrator can at least do SOMETHING to vehicles.
engineers just push the buttons on the ace unit, builders basically, to put it shortly, infiltrators hack, engineers build, light assault fly, heavy assault destroy, medics heal, and MAX units melt your face, in theory anyway
One of the biggest advantages of planetside is that you can go play and leave any time you want, an coupled with features like instant action - you can play it for some time, for 10 mins if you want, and leave. Plus, I'm a solo player by nature because I hate dying or losing ingame because of someone else's fault. So teaming up with an outfit would require me to spend more time in game, and more specific time, like, time that's suitable for every outfit member, but could be far from perfect for me, and I can't now leave whenever I want. Even more, that outfit should be nice and fine working, because I can't possibly team up with people whos IQ is lower then room temperature. I'm very resistant to stress, but I still don't need it. I think it should be taken into consideration - minority of players play as a organized outfit. If we'll go back to the subject - why must an infiltrator be forced to "play with the team", while any other class can kill a vehicle solo?
This is the kind of mentality that really harms MMO games. Like it or not this is how these game work: you must cooperate with someone else to achieve some goals. Destroying tanks as Infantry is one of those, otherwise roll a tank yourself, upgrade it with armor and AP weapons and rock & roll. If you only find r-tarded mates that's your problem and devs shouldn't change the game because of this. Really if you don't like to cooperate I wonder why you're playing an online game. You want to be an ultimate killing machine buy Crysis 3 and have fun.
First of all this game doesn't favor teamplay, therefore it's not a team game. Next - I can cooperate with an organized outfit, which I can't/don't want to get as it takes time, etc. And this mentality was there since forever, it's actually all this "YOU MUST PLAY AS A TEAM" which destroys MMO games, and I believe it was this way a bit after WoW. People say that MMO games are made to be team games, but that's not true. I have lots of MMOs behind and I've seen them evolve and their playerbase degrade. Also "PLAY AS A TEAM" 80% of the time is used by people who can't do anything alone, or can't do anything without advantage in numbers. And I'll say once again - infiltrator is the only class who can't destroy vehicles solo, apart from hacked turrets, which is highly situational. If I'd want to be an "ultimate killing machine", I'd play HA, which starting ammo is enough to kill like 3-5 MBTs, let alone laser-accurate LMGs which saw through infantry with ease and precision. And no, finding r-tarded "mates" is not my problem, it's a problem of all F2P games and, to a lesser extent, most p2p games (Minus specific games like EvE where noobs and idiots don't last long - they leave or evolve and adapt). And if you wonder why I'm playing an online game - in a MMORPG the goal always was to develop your character. This "development" was the process and the goal until the "modern gamers generation" appeared. People gathered in clans and guilds but rarely played with random people for obvious reasons. They did it to achieve some goals, but again they could do it just fine alone. Teamplay wasn't a mandatory. And since PS2 has no character progress, here is the answer to your question - I play PS2 - a MMOFPS game, to kill other players ingame, not to cooperate with them, make fancy friendships with rainbows, ponies, laugher and sh-t. And since PS2 is basically a sandbox game - no scripted events., base captures don't give any benefits, etc., etc., so you create goals for yourself, so I try to be as effective in terms of killing as possible, and of course killing a tank stands much higher in my list then killing a usual trooper, so I don't just rack up kdr, I try to take out big targets, I try to infiltrate, to hack those turrets to destroy vehicles, but if there is no hackable turrets nearby, which are pointed at the enemy - I can't do that. Personally, as I've said before, I can't kill vehicles, which make me less effective player with my chosen class, I don't care about exp or anything like that. But most people care - and let's say on the upcoming weekend, the double exp one, a single vehicle can provide more then a thousand exp, which is pretty good IMO. It's good even without doube exp tho. Any class can destroy those, and atleast 3 classes are effective and have their objectives and their ways to destroy vehicles, but infiltrator can't do that which makes him gimped in this regard. Let's say an engineer can get more exp from repairing and providing ammo on top of vehicle destruction, which HA and LA are unable of, but an infiltrator's "support role" provides a highly situational "hacking" that requires you to stand more or less still for 3 or more seconds inside a base swarming with enemies. And if the fact that any good player won't let you out of this turret alive isn't enough, this hacking also provides only 25 exp, which is like 15 times less then you can get from a high threat (I think) infantry unit, but in the same time much more risky to do. So Infiltrator needs a way to destroy vehicles in order to be more effective as a whole (On par with other classes, since not being able to destroy vehicles is a huge handicap), to be justly rewarded with exp, and just for the sake of common sence. I think I should point out that I wouldn't care about it and I could live with it if whole map was filled with something to hack, or if infiltrator could have some fancy special role that you could do regularly, but there is no such role currently. Hacking is almost useless and it's just... you know, you go into a watchtower, and see a total of 3 terminals (suicidal to hack), and like 8 turrets. All 8 turrets hacked provide you 200 exp, and that's it, and after this you're useless. Ofc maybe it's fancy and all to disable all the turrets (hack + enemies might want to destroy it, so those towers can't be repaired or hacked by an enemy), which harms said tower's defence greatly, but it all can be done by one infiltrator, while others will have no goals apart from infantry slaugher, it provides no exp, and it's a joy if you're actually fighting on the point which have something useful you can actually hack. Most little points have all their terminals hidden behind the barriers and have no turrets, so infiltrator "super special support role" simply won't work there.
PS2 doesn't force you to play in a team, there are just some things in the game you can't do all alone: destroying tanks as Infiltrator is one of those. Just bacause some classe are less effective at doing some things doesn't mean every class has to be the same. Heavy Assault cannot revive, Medics have no rocket launchers, Max can't pilot vehicles so what? I'd love to be able to repair my tank as Heavy Assault so I don't have to look for Engineers every 2 minutes, but that would be a very childish request I neither like the game design as it is today: imho only Infiltrators and Engineers should be able to place remote-controlled explosive like the old PS1 Boomer. Devs decide to create a game where every class but the saboteur can destroy vehicles, it's totally stupid. But as it is today there's too much explosive spam, giving C4 to Ifniltrators without remoing it from other classes would just make the problem worse.
Those examples are not correct. Every class have something unique for the class, like revives and heals of a medic can be compared with hacking, however, ability to destroy vehicles is not some class-defining, class-unique ability. It's just infiltrator that's inferior in comparsion with other classes when it comes do destroying vehicles. That's the point - we can't destroy vehicles, and have nothing in return for this handicap. And this "in return" thing obviously should make class more effective, which means getting actual kills, not "slowing the tank down" or "make his turret turn slower" (I can't even make up in my mind anything more r-tarded and less useful tbh), and it should provide exp which can be compared to the exp given from vehicle destruction. In this thread I'm not gonna whine about how little exp you get for hacking compared to what engineer and medic capable of getting with their support tools, but I'll not that killing vehicles provides a big chunk of exp which an infiltrator can't currently get and won't get if all those "slow tanks down" would be implemented. And talking about 'PS2 don't force you to play in a team" is correct to some degree, old MMOs, since we've mentioned them, allowed you do achieve goals (read: develop your character) with no bounds - if you couldn't get some item, you could get 10 other items, sell them and get what you need, that's just an example. However in this game I don't have such option as in the end the main goal of PS2 currently is actually killing (getting certs) and if I see some tank I can't do anything to it, unless I'll call a buddy with C4s. Therefore in order to destroy said tank infiltrator is forced to play in a team, unlike other classes.
Come on other classes cannot snipe but I don't see any Max Unit crying because they can't headshot people from 500mt with x12 optics. Every classes has pro and con: Infiltrators can't harm vehicles and no one ever said every class must be able to do the same things.
Every class can kill infantry, but infiltrator can't kill vehicles. Btw try shotguns with slugs and optics - basically the same sniper rifle without idiotic "hold breath" mechanic. Also sniping on really big distances is possible only on stationary targets. You need huge luck to land a hit on a moving at those distances. Anyway it's possible with any weapon. And of course it's not like every class must be able to do all the same things, but medic can always heal, engineer can provide ammo, HA can't do it, but he've got amazing weapons at his disposal, with huge magazine size, big damage and which are laser-accurate, on top of the most suitable anti armor weapons, and an active shield ability, which makes him the most damaging and defended class of all. LA is the closest to an infiltrator because his jetpack only gives him a bit of mobility, and that's it, but he can still destroy vehicles. Infiltrator can only kill infantry. Hacking is completely useless on like 95% of the map, not rewarded with exp, highly situational, etc. On top of this infiltrator is the only class which have less hp then all the others (400/500 vs 500/500), which, if I remember right, prevents him from being able to avoid 1 hit deaths from a bolt action sniper rifle for example. And in addition to it all infiltrator can't destroy vehicles. And if having less hp could make people avoid straight gunfights with this handicap - making players play infiltrator like it's meant to be played - stealth, ambushes and stuff, other disadvantages are not justified at all. And to me some way to destroy vehicles would be good.
Waaaayyyyy too much ******** would come out of that. Not even if SOE gave them a warning sound or instantly revealed the hacker on the minimap and gave the tank enough time to just drive away. There'd be too many "soloists" crying on the forums about infantry beating their OMGWTFPWNBBQ machine. Plenty of carbines, LMGs and assault rifles can shoot across bases and snipe with a better rate of fire and overall dps where the actual objectives are. If said sniper wants to actually do anything to help take/defend a base he has to move into this range and get outshot by pretty much anyone who had the thought to attach a scope to his weapon.
I'm just shocked people cannot see how easy vehicle hacking would be to thwart. We have to stand relatively still and have to remain uncloaked for a duration that would likely be in excess of 15-20 seconds on a vehicle that can move freely, is easy to get out of, and comes with a 2nd gunner for anti-infantry duties that you can switch to without even leaving the tank. You wouldn't even need a warning sound or anything, just open your eyes and/or switch to third person every now & then. With a competent second gunner on your tank you would not even have to look up from your infantry farm. It would almost be too easy to defeat and require a lot of skill/luck but it gives us a semi-reliable means to combat vehicles when turrets are either destroyed, out of range, or simply not there.
There's two statements here that I really don't like. The first one being, "you can't kill vehicles alone", which is just outright wrong given how two bricks of C4 are available to every class except Infiltrator and are capable of destroying anything except a completely undamaged Sunderer. Then you get to the specialized tools like the S-variants of your class's starting guns which have underslung grenade launcher attachments that can make up that last sliver of damage on a Sunderer that your C4 won't cover, the HA's rocket launcher, the fact that Engineers can carry even more C4 or the even more powerful tank mines, the anti-tank turret, and even anti-tank grenades... Combined, the only class that has no distinct anti-vehicle advantage is Medic, and they're still capable of soloing a Sunderer without Blockade Armor, not to mention any MBT or Lightning that they can manage to sneak up on. This all brings me to the second statement, "destroying tanks as an Infiltrator isn't something you can do alone", which is much like the first, but implies that Infiltrators are in some way relevant to the process of destroying tanks. What am I supposed to do to help, exactly? Run into the middle of the road and stick my tongue out at the thing? Short of keeping a tank distracted at great personal risk, there's no way for me to influence what happens to one, and even if acting as a distraction succeeds flawlessly, I get nothing for it but the satisfaction of being good bait. Why should I be content with that, and for that matter, why should I be content with what is essentially a non-lethal stun grenade being my only way to mildly inconvenience the indestructible armored behemoth rolling me over? Here's a thought for you: EMP devices eject all infantry inside of vehicles and lock them out for a set duration so I can kill their *****, and I get the ability to hack unmanned vehicles over to my faction's and/or personal control? This would actually be way more powerful than the ability to just hack a manned vehicle, but there's nothing less that an EMP grenade could realistically do while still being powerful enough to justify it being our only option to deal with vehicles.
We are the bastard child of this game; everyone resents us possibly being able to do something that everyone else can do - even if we were to get a totally inferior way of doing it. Hell, even infiltrators in this forum seem to resent any form of progress.
Honestly, this whole class is based around being irritating. Snipers are annoying to die to. Stealth classes are annoying to die to. Anti-personnel mines are annoying to die to. Our hacking is frustrating to those affected. EMP grenades are annoying. Is it any wonder people are reluctant to give us more toys? Can you imagine the uproar if we were actually given vehicle hacking, OHK knife strikes to the back, permanent stealth, or anything else people ask for? We're pests. Can you really blame people for not wanting to buff a pest?
Heh, indeed. They don't take notice though that while irriting these things are not necessarily very effective, neither for cert/exp nor for teamplay. They oppose buffs because they assume more irritation would commence, rather than assume that we would simply be more effective. Personally, I am not particularly a fan of stealth-killing - not that I dislike it, just that it is not my focus. I would like to see us have a greater tactical utility such as taking down doors and sensors, switching automated turrets around the base to temporarily fire on our enemy, lower shields, etc. These things should also be destroyable but should require far more team members to do so than the infiltrator equivalent - aka 10 rocket launcher shots to take down a door, or multiple tanks blasting at a shield for a small amount of time to overcome its regeneration rate, etc.* Affecting vehicles is very important in this game, and rightly so. I would not mind if only one or two classes could do it (totally or just effectively) - but every class (apart from us) can do it and can do it very reliably. The game is balanced around this fact. Thus, not letting infiltrators affect vehicles means we are outright underpowered - unless we are compensated else where, which is not the case. Even if you argue that we can use turrets to do this (which everyone else can do if friendly, or once hacked - which in itself only requires one infiltrator), the turrets are just not reliable enough to justify this. They have a very limited arc of fire, almost always have a lot of obstructions (which is important as the turret can not move to counter this unlike other weapons), and are easily destroyed (with the god-awful fact that only enemies can repair them meaning our sole means of hurting vehicles is up to the enemy making a mistake). They are also limited to bases and are often small in number. This is not to say that they are useless, just not reliable means of vehicular destruction when needed. *On a related note, if terminals took multiple enemies to destroy them (say, they have shields and you need to overcome the shield regeneration) this would make hacking them far more useful. They should be repairable by any engineer, friend or foe - put control back in the hands of the players rather than arbitrary restrictions.
That's like telling someone not to drive into confined spaces, have a gunner, stay near AA and not go solo---it's obvious to everyone except the person who thinks he's hit the Power Pellet and should roll through anyone who doesn't have one of their own.
