[Guide] Infiltrators are OVERPOWERED....

Oh really?

I'm having a hard time digesting your sense of absolutism. Always/Never statements just make me cringe.

I do fine in general with my Infil, but a lot of whether an Infil "sucks" comes down to what I want or need to do, and what all is available. Let me explain...


New "Free" Player As Infil = Bad
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First off, playing an Infil as a new player (with no Certs or SC) is pretty sad. No CQC weapon and only the NC starts with a Bolt Action (which still needs a 10x-12x Scope and/or Suppressor to be used well). No Darts, weak cloak, etc.

The only real route open for these players is Sniper, and we do see a lot of Low Level Sniper players* (probably because many find themselves overwhelmed in CQC vs. Certed players when they play other classes at the New "Free" Player level). But playing the Infil in the current game is most effective when you use loadouts to fit the engagement, and 100% Sniping fails in many engagements and is asking for frustration. Though it would be less frustrating if they at least started the VS and TR with Bolt Actions. (NOTE: New Player With $$ is much better off cause they can buy the best Bolt Action and an SMG)

* Low level Snipers, Repair Engineers, and Revive Medics all see newer players trying to make the game work in those roles


Dart Cost = Bad
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Darts before spending 780 Certs are solo player abilities to be used sparingly or team abilities when you are standing on an Ammo Supply or by an Infantry Terminal/Sunderer. Supply is too low, duration is too short, range is too small.


Team Tactical Usefulness = Hit and Miss
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Infils can be solid in some engagements, meh in others, and a wasted opportunity for a better class in others.

This actually doesn't matter in most gameplay because PLANETSIDE HAS TERRIBLE TEAM TACTIC TOOLS/SUPPORT FOR PLAYERS in the standard game (side issue that heavily frustrates me). But if you're talking more competent and competitive groups, it starts to show more. Infils are still good/useful in tactical play, but you just don't need that many of them, and much of what they can offer comes only after that Infil is properly Certed out.


Power Creep
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Power Creep: Some older Infils got their Sniping game figured out back in the old days of PS2: more population, nobody anti-sniper shuffled, no Nanoweave, no Scout Radar/Darts, no good Infil CQC weapons, etc. They got into a groove with what worked and didn't and they enjoyed themselves. Then the game started its Power Creep (Power Creep = the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases/unlocking of new content) and they found the Sniping game hitting roadblock after roadblock, and then the class getting pushed into CQC by being given the SMG.

Many of these people felt like they'd been kicked off the gameplay they developed and liked and are being pushed into a CQC world that wasn't the Class they'd invested time into. This is Style Drift (Style Drift = The divergence of gameplay from its previous style or objective into something different), and it frustrates affected players because they are being pushed off what they liked about the Infil (drew them to spend time on it), what they spent their time learning is now somewhat obsolete, and they are being pushed to a different type of gameplay they do not have experience in and may not like.

It also hurt that Infil seemed to be the class most affected by Power Creep, while most other classes seemed to be growing within their original gameplay focus. Also, Infil ability to play in non-Lattice bases was removed and LA/Infil being needed to hack Generators was axed.

(NOTE: I wasn't a Sniper-only Infil and I have not been as put off by this Power Creep as others, but I can appreciate their frustration so I listed it. Also this Power Creep will not affect new players the same because they don't have experience in the old system as a point of reference)


Bugs
====

Old bugs stay, new bugs show up. And some Power Creep is mistakenly perceived as a bug because it radically changes gameplay and there is no comments on the Devs about it. This can frustrate players.


PS2 Devs
=======

Hand in Hand with the Power Creep and Bugs is the pervading notion that the Devs don't play the Infil Class, have only dabbled in it to any extent as CQC, don't like Sniping (either being one or being hit by one), don't really know what Infil players do gameplay-wise, don't "get" the Infil Class, don't really have any plans for the Class (building it or growing anything from it), etc. This can be very unsettling for many Infil players, especially when they see Bugs accrue, Power Creep accrue, comments from Devs that show lack of interest/exp in the class, backwards buffs to some Infil Weapons, a weird (no growing of existing gameplay, but new Style Drift gameplay stuff being added instead) and ever postponed "revamp" for the Class, etc. Many Infil players have a hard time expecting anything healthy in the Class's future.

(NOTE: I played a "neglected" Class before in the EQ Bard and I really enjoyed that class, so I am not as bothered by not having a Dev in the Infil pocket. Also, most *cough* struggling MMOs switch to a skeleton Dev crew and when they do most every class loses having some Dev who plays them, so I don't think Infil will be the only Class/Unit like this in the long run.


ETC., ETC., ETC.
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Insert whatever issues you want into here. Bottom line is that most classes have a straight forward and needed role, are pretty well positioned (have lower level but appropriate gear and know what Cert Tree progressions to chase to build on that) in terms of performing that role from the outset as a new "free" player, etc. Infils are a weird mix of abilities, have varyingly significant roles, and a clunky and awkward Cert Tree and don't really open up as a versatile power Class until well Certed/SCed.


So the word "suck" is relative. And I don't think it's just about the raw Power Level of the class in farming Certs or racking up kill streaks in the standard game. (which the Infil seems to be able to do well at with enough Certs into it)

First off, dosing up with boosts (especially multiple boosts) completely confuses the topic of Cert Gain. Is there a way you can re-calculate your numbers so you can show what your earnings would be without boosts?

What other classes did you play and what did you do with them? I've been grinding Certs on my TR (gotta feed the monkey: Mosquito Cert Tree) and the most *reliable* Cert Gain for me is Engineer in Mosquito doing Base Turret Repair and cherry picking Base Caps by checking the map and flying quickly to them right before they cap. Also, try to focus on lower pop Continents to maximize % bonus. Also, make sure to drop an Ammo pack at the Warpgate in the doorway leading to the Vehicle Terminals.

Also check <Home> for IA drops into enemy defended Towers in big battles. That's easy Cert Grinding landing your pod on an Air platform, cloaking up and running off onto the landing below the platform, scrambling up the strut below the platform, then farming Defenders with a Bolt Action + Suppressor.

I can get huge runs of Certs doing other things, but the problem is the setups just aren't as reliable or consistent. I can also get better Cert Gain with my VS Infil, but he is higher level, more Certed, and has better weapons unlocked.

Or that few play the ESFs these days, but they have the most threads in the Vehicls forum?

I think a lot of it has to do with how straight forward a unit is to play.

But your ability to Q-Spot the Sunderer *is* important. Or their ability to switch to another Class to take out the Sunderer.

How many Infils DON'T Q-Spot a Sunderer because they just want to farm it? PS2 blows in terms of supporting and encouraging players to play toward team strategic objectives.

If you're going to come with a revamp to the entire hacking mechanic make sure you keep in mind that we're going to need something important to do in defensive situations or scenarios out in the field as well. I always thought that a bolstering mechanic would be an interesting idea for Infiltrators to work with in addition to hacking, as in interacting with a piece of equipment to give it a temporary buff of some sort. Bolstering a friendly generator would cause it to overload slower, bolstering a friendly turret would give it a ROF boost or make it overheat slower, or bolstering a friendly Medic's Healing Tool would make it heal faster/revive with Health + Shields. These buffs again would be temporary so that more than one Infiltrator have to be necessary to keep a base/group running at peak efficiency.

One problem would be explaining why the systems don't run at peak efficiency already or why the buffs are temporary, but these 'bolsters' could be considered empire-specific coding algorithms that the Nanite Systems software automatically rewrites after a certain period of time.

In a perfect world, I would have rather seen the Infiltrator be more of a support class like the Engineer or Medic than an assault class like the Heavy. Pistols, electronics' kits, and the like would've been our forte. At this point though I don't see SOE completely redoing the whole class.

Maybe I'll spend some time writing down my ideas.

I'm quite fond of that idea regarding the generators, especially the conceptual lore idea behind it. Still, I think you would be hard pressed to get that by the community as something the engineer shouldn't possess, especially since it seems that it's a concept they have been talking about over there.

The overhaul that I designed seems like a nurf to the entire system of hacking, but it's geared towards a sustainable system similar to heal and repair while simultaneously rewarding those who certify into higher tiers.

Now,

What I fail to address here is the fact that there are currently no systems to hack that can't also be destroyed. We need several hackable systems incorporated into the game that permit us a monopoly upon a mechanic that actually has the potential to shape the course of the battle. So, in a perfect world, further hackable systems incorporated into the game would all be indestructible.

These could include:

Blast Doors:
As I've expressed previously, imagine if there were alternate routs into every bases that were barred by indestructible blast doors. While these doors would automatically open and close for defending forces, they wouldn't budge for the enemy...unless they were hacked. This would provide a quick method for defending forces to potentially flank the enemy through alternate routs that their adversaries couldn't utilize...while simultaneously providing us with something we can hack that can't be destroyed and will effectively alter the entire course of battle by providing another means into the defending bases.

Ammunition Towers:

This isn't my idea, but it's one that I absolutely adored. The ability to hack into ammunition towers would give us a way to effect enemy vehicles without doing any actual damage directly. Instead, we would be told to head out deep into enemy territory and nullify their tower as a means to help thin out the progressive bombardment of armor. Furthermore, it would make the ammunition feature of the Sunderer that much more important.

Now, you may be thinking to yourself that this seems like an interesting idea up until you realize that switching classes in Planetside 2 is a simplistic task, and even more so when you're at a base that you control. However, with the way that I have overhauled the system of hacking...a person isn't going to be capable of just switching to the Infiltrator and fixing the problem. Only someone who has actually invested into hacking will be able to fix this problem, because they'll have certified into the hacking tiers capable of doing so!

I didn't actually think of that up until now, but it works perfectly...

The development team has expressed that hacking vehicles is out and won't make a return, so this would at least be something that we could do to them.

- Imagine hearing on the battlefield, "We need an Infiltrator to hack their tower so that we can thin out this armor!"
- Imagine hearing on the battlefield, "We need an Infiltrator to head back to base and fix the tower, bastards hacked it!"

They won't be able to do it themselves, unless they have invested into hacking like we have. As it stands, we don't even invest in hacking half the time...so I doubt that your typical Engineer will have their hacking up to the final tier.



Anyway, enough of my ranting; this is what needs to be done to hacking in my opinion. I believe that this redesign of the system, coupled with some newly incorporated indestructible hackable systems, will fix all the problems that we currently have with hacking in general. Now, we'll have a sustainable system for defending and assaulting Infiltrators to battle over...encouraging investment into the hacking tiers to maximum. Furthermore, it ensures that we're constantly needed...because those indestructible systems will always be there and not simply destroyed upon the initial battle for the exp or to ensure the enemy can't use them.

Not to mention that I really want the Phase Disruption Shield...

I think that will help a lot with giving us more infiltration capabilities over the Light Assault without actually impeding upon the LA's own method of mobility and espionage.

On a side note, I should get a medal for reading all Aeterna's posts fully in this thread

I feel like I'm reading a good book! OHH I wonder what's next

(Not dissing you haha, just mean you take time to write your ideas for the better of the class fully which is great.)

*hands over a medal to Darkelfdruid*
though I really, *really* think that Aeterna should start figuring out how to make short posts.

HAY, then i want one too^^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTP

I can't help myself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

I don't care, i just want to shoot you all.

Then eat chicken.

As a therapist, I can safely say that you are what you think you are.

Unless you're not.

So...

The Phase Disruption Shield, that should probably be moved to the 5th tier of hacking...shouldn't it?

Software vs. Hardware. Infiltrators could be about the code behind the machines, while Engineers seem to be more about the physical components themselves. This allows the class to have a definitive role in both attack, defensive, and field scenarios, which is something I feel most hacking overhauls lack (including your own, no offense).

The finer points of my ideas probably are best to be described in a separate thread, though I feel like this will be a waste of time as SOE seems quite keen on forcing us into the near useless Recon role.

No offense taken as my system does indeed tend to lack on the field, but I believe that it makes up for this within infiltration, espionage, and defense. Either way, don't get me wrong; I like the idea of Infiltrators being able to boost performance and I'm quite keen on your lore explanation because it's rather befitting.

I mean, it's slightly similar in methodology to my Phase Disruption Shield's incorporation into the hacking certifications. In my eyes, we would be using some sort of built in suit interface as a means to bypass these shields by masking our signature. This lore mechanic makes sense because we can look around while hacking now...so it's safe to assume that the system isn't as simplistic as using a physical interface and more along the lines of being some sort of technological system interlinked with their own mind. We're even working on this sort of technology today, the ability to control computers via thought or implant. So, your explanation of them augmenting the performance of these systems makes a great deal of sense to me.

All that I'm saying is that I think you'll be hard pressed to get the rest of the community to see it within the same light. I've seen something similar over on the engineer threads where they advocated the idea of being able to upgrade various things because they're engineers and that just makes sense. So, I'm not disagreeing with you...just saying you're going to have to spin it pretty well to get that one across.

If I even once felt that the developers listened seriously to the Infiltrator community I would dedicate my time to making this sort of thing happen. But when you see the kind of ideas they've come up with for our Update and how they're turning this class into the Planetside version of the BF3 Recon, it is painfully obvious that they spend approximately 0% of their time reading the content of the posts here and instead focus on TOS Violations. And while for the most part I can't blame them (most of the threads are whiny & hate filled), we have a lot of talented folks here with interesting ideas that would be leagues better for our class & the game then more useless Recon Tools.

There is an obvious disconnect between the Infiltrator Community's desires and the Developers. Don't get me wrong, I love this class and do very well with it. But this is in spite of the direction of the development team and not because of it.

4k views, almost 200 replies, each reply is a size of a new post.

This is where you're failing to see the big
picture. Snipe the medics. Too many medics to snipe? That means their class comp is weak in other areas, or you need more snipers to make an impact in their superior numbers. Medics suck at anti armor and anti air, by the way. This is a combined arms game, sniping is just as situational as everything else.

makes no sense if the medic can just hide behind an object with his 3m revive-beam.

Oh really had a chuckle now...thought it's good that many infiltrators wan to to make their voices heard (which will be handy for my new project) but still haha When I see this thread at top of forums after we had such discussion In my head I hear this...

At 36s into the video

Alright, sure. Again one role shouldn't problem solve everything. If that medic is forced to sit behind cover it means bad news if they're assaulting a point. That means you're playing your role as a sniper. If they're defending you're still keeping them pinned down while your comrades advance on the position. Either way you're fulfilling your purpose. You're a suppressive factor on the field, and that is the purpose of a sniper.

If your want those medics dead either reposition on a flank or have teammates (armor, air, other infantry) clean them up. Planetside 2 will always be about combined arms and never one lone wolf. Everyone has a role.

I don't see your problem here.

there is no suppressive factor, if you *plonk* most of your (outfit) targets, and the few who will die with one shot stand up a second later, just to shoot that guided rocket at your teammates tank.
Or you gather some snipers to destroy a ZOE, just to see him standing again a few seconds later. great suppressive factor.
If they have decided to camp and farm from behind a rock, they will do it, with or without a sniper at the other side, the sniper is not the one who forces them to do so, he is just the annoying fly that costs them a few seconds.
And even if you flank them, two medics, they need nothing more, just two medics to protect the whole squad (+engineer for the max), and even if they have only one medic...he just needs to run from left to right, jump a few times, and the snipers aim becomes totaly useless, every single shot is purely luck-based then.
"But you can bring more snipers to kill them" - more snipers = more chances for a total failure. they just need to see one of the snipers to kill them all.

Suppressive factor would be, if they could not run away from that rock, force them to cover instead of pushing towards your base, create a "death zone" that they cant pass with infantery. but thats impossible. headshot on a moving target at long range? pure luck. bodyshot? screw it, he is away before you load the second bullet. not to mention the "need more cover, no death-zones" philosophy from SOE, Sniper gets useless once the enemy is inside the walls, not that he had a use while they were outside, as i said, a sniper is just annoying. the real defense are the guys behind that wall or inside the building. not the snipers, not the base-turrets.
suppression as a sniper would work if there would be a bodyshot-ohk, anti-material rifles, but that would be hard to balance, most possible it would be op. it could also work if you could kill with a sniper-headshot so that they cant get revived, that would give them a reason to cover and fear a sniper.

The only thing that Sniping gives you is a +1 for your kill-counter, nothing more, nothing for your team that matters.
the only real use i have found so far is long-range killing the Engineer behind his AV-Turret, most of them seem to be blind and deaf, they wont even react to a *plonk*.

let us be honest...how many times do you get killed by a sniper during a battle? not that often. most snipers will fight a private battle with enemy snipers, engineers or sometimes even unprotected guys (the "camp behind the rock" group), but a sniper wont attack the attacking force that pushes to your base or is allready inside it...simply because he cant. the same if he is the attacker, the sniper will always fight other campers, he wont attack the base like his teammates. he can do it with an SMG, but then he is no sniper.

I have played the other classes a few times (no certs in them), and usually...i can ignore the snipers. the real threat is the guy inside the base, not the guy on the rock.
i had the fun a few times to sneak with a HA or something from behind to the enemy sniper and sit there a while. The terrain has enough cover so that they cant see and hit you while you walk towards them.