If you want changes to NC weapons be honest about their strengths first.

the garbage OP's post isn't even worth dignifying with a legitimate response. just look at the results from the WDS (and even as far back as the UES) and you'll see that on a macro level, every argument he makes is complete garbage. totally shameless lobbying to keep an easy 2-against-1 farm lucrative.

if his post is garbage your post must be pure gold.

between his post and yours who do you think SOE would actually consider seriously when conducting balance.

I'm kind of upset that I used "of" instead of "off" and "there" instead of "their" and didn't notice before it was too late to edit though.

The same .. And in all unbiased honesty, if we are talking purely standard infantry it's not us any tweaks should be aimed at, it's the new players. Just a few tweaks to make them that little more ease of use comparatively to TR/VS.

I think both need tweaks. The perfect starting weapons are probably the Solstice VE3 and the SVA-88. VS has the good, all-rounder, get a feel for the game and be effective at all ranges but not amazing/specialized. And they're easy enough to handle to boot. Same goes for the Pulsar VS1 I suppose although I think it's a little less so.

But as you get a feel for the different weapon types, many players will want something that fits more specific roles they like to play. When I play Light Assault, I don't want to be stuck with the typical carbine. I use LA not to run and gun but to float around covering my squad from vantage points and longer range more accurate weapons are much better suited for this. The Mercenary is PERFECT for it, but on TR I'm stuck with the lackluster TTK of the T5 AMC and on VS the poor recoil and lower RoF of the Pulsar C.

I'm a huge proponent of many of NC's weapons being very competent in contrast or in complement to the other two factions. Having played the other factions an appreciable amount (nothing special, I know, but I will bring it up nonetheless), I too understand a lot of obvious and subtle differences that weapons have, for better or worse.

That being said, there were plenty of holes that you seemed to simplify or even bias data towards in order to make a point. The topic title makes this thread sound very promising for an unbiased, analytical look at how the NC's weapons stack up but turned into rambling about vague points made over and over again aggregated into a lopsided argument (because this is quite obviously an argument, and should therefore be taken with a grain of salt).

Among problems I have that I see a couple others have pointed a few out include a dismissal of more severe accuracy degradation while moving or shooting, some null points such as that about velocity disparities, lack of addressing ROF vs. damage properly beyond "rate of fire increases damage output", and so forth. Also seems to disregard the MAX entirely, of which for a high-accuracy, long-range faction, is sure stuck with more shotguns than it can carry and poses a fundamentally different gap in role than one gun being more effective at range than its faction similitude.

So really, this is just a huge mess that seems to have been constructed almost deliberately to throw as many half-baked points out so that those who don't think much about it will eagerly agree. Your title brings up a very good talking point, now where's the talking? I just see you yelling at whiny players from the perspective of a player that prefers another faction despite your avatar.

I stopped reading at:
"Accuracy. NC weapons in general are more accurate than VS or TR weapons. "

My time playing as TR and VS is limited, but I don't think NC is handicapped. Not to the degree that some may claim, anyway.

I've certed up every NC gun there is with multiple attachments. I've field tested them all - to the point that I know how to best use each one. We've got some damn good guns.

We're definitely different for having guns that are best used ADS. Is this better or worse? I dunno. I like ADS. But...hipfire is handy.

Whenever I need a strong hipfire gun, I use an SMG/gr22/gd7f/Anchor and I never feel the opposition can out run 'n gun me. Well... except for TR Medics with a TAR. That thing is amazing. 40rnd mags!?!

Why do NC players not perform as well overall? I just assume that most players... newer players... weaker players... find hip-firing to be an easier method. I know that with my slow PC, I do heaps better that way. Anytime I have to take a moment to slow down or pause entirely to take a shot - I become much more vulnerable. In hectic engagements, it's best to keep moving.

Actually, you can't.

I may be fairly new, but I think I can pretty accurately refute every issue you raise by pointing out that this game is fundamentally CQB. Take a good long hard look at how many battles are actually decided by small arms outside of about 20 meters. Maybe it's just my server or something, but what I see is incredible amounts of vehicle spam when ranges are long and incredible amounts of maxes and hipfire zerging when the ranges are short. The game is about territory control, and you control territory by capturing points, and the huge majority of those points are indoors or closely surrounded by buildings. Setting up firing lines to cover the approaches when the enemy knows where you are is an exercise in suicide given that vehicles can completely annihilate exposed infantry and infiltrators can snipe you from across the hex before you even know there's one around. Even the game's fundamental net code punishes tactical play and rewards corner-rounding twitch reflexes.

So basically the NC has really good shot dispersion and really good muzzle velocity in a game where these advantages are about 80% meaningless. Who cares that you can hit people 200 meters away with the NC6 SAW: unless you land, what, 6? 7? consecutive hits before they can get to cover then they will just hide until their shield recharges and keep coming. Great, you can plink away uselessly from the door of your control point building and then get completely stomped into the ground by an SMGfiltrator or shotgun-wielding light assault when the enemy team deigns to notice you. For every super long range kill I got with my sniper machine gun, I got destroyed several times in close quarters because it can't hit the broad side of a sunder from the hip.

The NC's traits are aimed at long range and stopping power... Great. But the game isn't about that. Everything important is close quarters, and the long range fights are inconclusive interludes.

I went into more detail in another post about accuracy while moving + another responder covered it adequately.

Velocity I didn't spend much time on because NC having the more powerful stats in other areas on their higher velocity guns kind of makes it pointless to elaborate too much or go into specifics. I know TR/VS have high velocity weapons but they come with crippling downsides to their effectiveness for the mid-long range role that NC's do not. NC "win" there without having to look at specific weapon velocity values.

Accuracy degradation/ bloom interacts with RoF in a way that makes it reasonably balanced when higher for low RoF weapons. I don't see it as a remarkable disadvantage for NC weapons because of that.

I didn't go into MAX balance because this is about infantry weapons and MAXes...while they're kind of infantry they're a very separate part of the game's balance and play very differently. You want to talk about the air/armor/max balance, that's a separate topic that might be worth creating but would just muddle this one. I don't have a fully certed out NC MAX and haven't even tried the slugs, some players report more success at range with them than others. So I also don't go into it because I don't have the knowledge to appropriately discuss it.

I wouldn't pay that much real money for a weapon or two, but I'd gladly save up 10,000 certs just for the Mercenary alone. I've auraxiumed every TR carbine (except the burst), but there's not a doubt in the world the Mercenary is the best gun in the game for someone with my playstyle. Hell, I'd probably pay 1,000 certs just to be able to use the damn iron sights for the Mercenary on my Trac 5.

Why do people keep trying to argue that NC infantry weapons are fine? We already know that! Most of them are good, some are bad. It's not the infantry weapons that are the problem, it's the MAX and vehicular weapons that need tweaking. Not only the weapons, but also some abilities such as the Aegis Shield.

There's an idea. 10,000 certs (the cap) to purchase an enemy weapon for your character. It gives the people on cert overflow something to save for and will help put a stop to all this "Your faction OP my faction UP" ********. Just call the weapons salvaged or looted or stolen or whatever. Maybe even keep off the station store so they must be bought with certs so people can't just buy the games entire arsenal for one character.

Again we are overstating infantry play as being a major motive for the people who complain about NC being disadvantaged. Who is on the forum day after day crying "OMGWD MY MARCENRY IS SO BAAAD PLS BUFF" because I honestly never see that happen. If that has ever happened, then it's a new player and shortly after you will see NC vets come in to say that the weapons are fine with practice. This happens with every faction, it's not unique to NC.

Please do not post on this thread, you are only encouraging the wooly eyed and those short on analysis skills. Let it die so we can focus on the areas where NC really need work without having yet another distraction brushing the real problems under the rug.

neither?

WDS is not a valid argument.

At one point everyone whined about TR being OP, and then suddenly rule change! and the VS won.

Our 200 damage carbine and rifle leaves something to wish for. :L

I like ADSing all the time as a habit, and I like the NC weapons I 've tested for this (I also like your iron sights). Close range ADS requires lots of headshots, and I see good NC often able to do this. I'd love a 167 damage long range carbine for TR, but NC could use more close range things to be more competitive in the current game.

HOWEVER, I think the nanoweave changes will reward the strengths of NC, and I'm interested to see how that plays out,

As some have already said the main problem is not with the infantry weapons. There are some issues that should be addressed like bumping up the ACX & Reaper to 25 rounds per magazine so they have equivalent damage per clip with all other assault rifles but overall we are no worse off than the other factions (some weak weapons and some pretty good). MAX suits are ok imo it's mainly a combination of ZoE & Comets/Fractures that cause a MAX imbalance atm. The Aegis shield could maybe be a bit more effective if it didn't make the MAX walk so slowly and our AV options need some love as they both suck atm. For scatter variants all I would like to see is a slight bump in magazine capacity (+3) to make it more accessible for non-extended magazine users (new players).

If there is a problem it's with the vehicles and stuff like the ESRL as I think these are the things that really have an effect on territory capture and player retention. Hardly anyone uses the Enforcer variants over a Fury or Halberd because the C85 is pretty rubbish and with the ML85 you need an aimbot or jedi powers to successfully deal with infantry (plus it's an extremely boring weapon). The Vanguard has it's advantages for certain mainly for sniping vehicles and 1vs1 with tanks but it's bad as an infantry killer compared to the other MBT. The Phoenix is occasionally great at specific bases in certain situations but it's mostly useless.

Very true, but what I'm saying is that those should be the least of our concerns right now. They at least have a role...sort of. The sorry excuse for a vehicle secondary called the Enforcer Modified should be a top concern, along with the sustained fire of the ScatMAX.