If you want changes to NC weapons be honest about their strengths first.

I agree that SAW was a bad default weapon choice and that could have some effect on faction vs. faction balance since many players will be using the default. But you're delusional if you think everyone just wants to keep NC down and farm them. There are a lot of cross-faction players and older gamers who play PS2 and really just want it to be a more enjoyable time sink and don't care about petty faction bias stuff.

All factions so far have been overpowered at various points but usually it's either air/armor/MAX stuff putting them over the top, excepting the case of empire specific...anti air/armor stuff. All factions have seen some seriously cheesy nonsense and plenty of players managed to admit that yes, their Scattermax, Magrider, Prowler, Pheonix, Striker, ZOE etc. etc. was overpowered.

Some people might want to keep NC down to farm them for Certs. Good for them, they currently get to have what they like. But anyway, I think it's because our weaponry is exceedingly hypocritical. We have good starting accuracy, but it doesn't take long for that to go to hell. We fire slow, but we're expected to compete or even exceed the faster firing weapons. I mean, ****. We have shotguns on everything. You don't get more close range than shotguns. And yet, our rifles are built for long range, but without any decent way to excel at long range because of the NC flaws saying, "No, **** you. Get in really close, *****."

NC has the best infantry guns, full stop. I don't want them adjusted or even looked at (with the exception of MAYBE making the EM6 the default instead of the SAW) because frankly we win the AR contest by miles, have a nice variety of LMGs, our carbines are good and the Razor is the best one in the game imo, and the Jackhammer is finally fixed to be the force it was meant to be. I cannot play my VS guy in a serious fashion because I feel like the guns are such turds compared to the NC ones, and the ones I do use are basically NC knockoffs like the Ursa/Flare/Pulsar C

The problem NC has is with weaponry in general. Vehicle-wise, with the exception of the AP/Enforcer Vanguard, we are the NS faction, and even then the Halberd is usually a better choice. The C85 is so bad there aren't words for it, the Enforcer is great at what it does and has to be infuriating to go up against because of the INCESSANT POUNDING it puts out, but it's not well suited to the Harasser. Compare the Airhammer to the Banshee or PPA, or the C85 to the PPA or Marauder, or the Enforcer to the "great at everything" Vulcan and Saron.

Those are our main issues, along of course with our MAX being hilariously bad compared to a VS/TR MAX until you dump 3-4k certs into it. These are more balance issues than anything, it's not dumb to want them addressed in one way or another. We just want the skill floor lowered on our force multipliers. I know people who tried out all 3 factions and bailed on the NC because the stock MAX and Vanguard were so bad.

The C85 in its current format can't be as intended, can it?

Can it?

Good, I am not the only one thinking the triple shot was fixed end not a buff...
I'm all for buffing that thing again, with the other shotties getting more different and a bit empire specific

Saron and enforcer are nearly identical in function. We think its lame too, and i agree that its not fun for those on the receiving end either. Secondaries are OP as a cheap way to encourage 2/2.

I think nc weapons lack a es flavor. Like tr ammo, and vs drop.
Some creativity would be needed to think of a fair flavor.

Personally i think all nc should have burst and burst should be much more accurate for nc.
That could be cool. But i dunno.

Yes, in its current form, it is in a perfect place. It is neither useful, nor is it scary. It represents everything about the NC; Shotguns on everything, even things that logically shouldn't have shotguns. It represents the collective incompetence of everyone who picked NC and didn't change sides. It represents our status as vegetables for others to farm.

I agree w/this up until you say the NC MAX is hilariously bad. The stock NC MAX is easily better than the stock TR MAX and both require similar investments to make effective, but then the TR MAX gets stuck with lockdown while NC's shield is considerably better. Fractures are better, I'll grant that, but there's a nerf coming for AV MAX weapons vs. infantry I'm pretty sure. But as for the actual intended AI weapons...it's reasonably balanced I think, NC has more room clearing sheer burst potential while TR can lock down larger areas due to range + high mag size.

tbh I completely agree - for general LA gameplay the Jaguar is a superior weapon to the Merc.(For engies Merc is more comparable)
In fact imo the Jaguar is the best all-around carbine in the game because it has moderately-high DPS and amazing hip-fire (even while jet-packing!) for CQC along with the much coveted 0.75x ADS move speed without any penalty to damage drop-off.
Plus it gets SP ammo and a 40 round mag while maintaining satisfactory accuracy at range.

Its basically an smg without the excessive damage drop-off or unpredictable recoil.
Icing on the cake is its only 250 certs (great for cheap-skates and alts)

I love the Jag on my TR character so I don't want a nerf - I want something similar available for all!

That's exactly my problem. Each faction should get guns that fit every role within their faction traits.
The only true (automatic) CQC weapon that feels like an NC weapon, is the cyclone. (Anchor doesn't count due to inferior DPS)

I don't want 'subpar' versions of TR-style guns for our CQC weapons (ie high RoF but without 40 round mags and ridiculous bloom)
I want guns that 'feel NC' but also fill the gaps in our arsenal

I'm not saying the GD-7F, GR-22 and Carnage are bad - just that their main feature is being 'un-NC'

tbh, vehicle weapon balance aside (cough, prowler), the main reason why NC are so easy to farm is that NC pubs are generally incredibly stupid and unaware of their surroundings. Infantry weapon balance is irrelevant until this is fixed.
Maybe its different on other servers, but from WDS results I doubt it

This from my own experiences as both an NC player in one of my server's more organised outfits, and on my TR alt

I like to laugh maniacally at newbies in their stock TR MAXes as they try to hit me with their Pounder while I beat them to death with whatever I have in my hands at the time...
That being said both the NC and TR stock MAXes are useless with only a single AI arm

Imo the non-Fracture TR MAX probably needs a small buff and the NC MAX needs a mid-range weapon where the user doesn't have to spend more time reloading than shooting (slugs don't count). ZOE MAX has waaay too much synergy with Comets but after the nerf to that they may be alright.

The NC Max used to be useless without a large cert investment, but since the Grinder is now 250 certs that's no longer quite the case. Although extended mags are still a must for a good NC Max, more so than for the other factions.

Personally I find the shield to be inferior to charge in most cases as its only really good for MAX crashes in large numbers to soak up damage. Most other uses for it are easily covered by being a better positional player and having a pocket engineer.

The way I see MAXes is VS/ZOE are the rambo room clearers, TR can lock down large rooms with suppressive fire and NC MAXes hold choke points and doorways like nobody's business.

Our true faction trait is crippling ovespecialisation to the detriment of everything else.

The only thing most to all the NC weapons are good for is camping a single spot or chokepoint from a mid distance.
Don`t move. Dont try to shoot fast moving targets that require you to move your gun much.

Unfortunately you can not attack with this tactic. As you are static.
Unfortunately you can not defend with this tactic. As static targets are easy to take out.

I'll be honest: The majority of gameplay in PS2 does not favor NC weapon strengths.

The problem with NC weapons is that they have the lowest DPS of all weapons. which iv said in the past is the main reason why alot of people feel they are hard to master / reward less then the other two factions.
I would even go as far to say that slow rate of fire weapons are no better at range then a faster rate of fire weapons, that can track a moving target alot better then a slower rate of fire weapon. Which I find I miss out on more DPS over all with a slower rate of fire weapon at longer ranges.

But while you say the "better" NC weapons in CQC are suited for ADS is really a bad point to bring up.
What is easyer to hit. A player ADS in CQC? Or a player Hip firing while moving left to right?

I have to totally disagree with you on the fact that slower rate of fire weapons are better then fast rate of fire weapons on the grounds that DPS favours the rapid fire weapons.Which in terms rewards pray and spray gun play more then aimed shooting.
It should be that higher dmg weapons are rewarded for better DPS over all on the grounds that you are more heaverly penalised for missing, then you are with a rapid fire weapon.

Here a vid on the 1st tier of SMG's they released and why the cyclone was ranked 3rd by a reasonable review. Mainly down to its poor RoF and lowest DPS.



But all that aside I really am starting to think that you are NOT an NC player. The way you word your post feels like you are batting for the other side all over it.

Lets all not forget people that Stats dont lie and the NC stats currently are last in pretty much every catagory!

How I would sum up the OP.

How many long range capture points are there on a base again? To say that NC has an advantage at longer range at the expense of close quarters, and considering that close quarters 8 times out of ten will decide a point flipping, I'd say the NC have a fairly stong srguement... and that it is rather sucky.

For me the biggest problem with the NC is the 'faction trait' I love the SCOPE in this game, its what keeps me playing, the fact that I can be the pilot, the sniper, the tanker etc. The VS have the Sci-fi stuff, thats fine if thats what attracts you, It defines the handling and cosmetics of their weapons but essentially bullet drop is the major area effected. The TR have bullets and speed - which is a bit of a problem concerning DPS in FPSers, but having more bullets at a faster fire rate is hardly something the majority of players would turn down.

Then the NC have shotguns. To me, that's far to restrictive a trait in terms of gameplay, certainly more restrictive than the other factions. I love my NC - I don't love shotguns. Now if you don't like the Minichain gun or the lasher then look elsewhere, same for the jackhammer.... But we even have a shotgun on an ESF for god's sake. I just don't feel the "Hit slow Hit hard" idea has been thought out correctly, or not expanded on enough. It feels like the NC are more a prisoner to their trait than a faction defined by it.

We also have Gauss/railgun technology, which really should be faster than a propelled ball of damn ionized gas. But it isn't. :c

Well said.

This was a good OP. So good I didn't really read the rest of the thread. I feel like a lot of complaints are "I play my faction wrong, fix it!". The NC sit, the TR run and the Vanu are everywhere. If you get a squad of NC in a room waiting patiently for the enemy to attack them, they will be there forever. I, on reflex now, put a bullet into anyone I see sprint because only the TR need to (and anyone who isn't TR and sprinting probably should die anyway for giving our position away.) unless you are a Vanu trying to keep up with a ZOE.

Regarding the NC max: I see no reason whatsoever to invest in it. They are TERRIBLE out of the box and I have never seen any allied max do anything like what I see VS or TR maxes do. Shotguns with buckshot follow video game logic and have an effective range of next to nothing. And somehow a triple-barreled monstrosity carried by a max is actually a far worse weapon than the single-barrel small arm Sweeper.

Room clearing potential? NC max spends 75% of its time reloading. If your room only has 2 or 3 guys in it then fine, but otherwise there is simply no contest in how many kills can be strung together when the other factions get automatic weapons with big magazines. Other factions just hold down the trigger and slice the pie, NC max has to run up and jam its shotguns into each target's face individually. And then reload, and reload, and reload some more between the reloading.

And door holding power being the NC max specialty? How the hell is it going to hold a door when the aegis shield makes you unable to attack. It can save you from an occasional rocket and help breach a door by soaking up everybody's reaction fire, but the only way to stop people from passing you is to kill them and using the shield is completely exclusive of killing anything. Pulling out your shield while on the defensive i.e. after the element of surprise is lost, is a huge obvious signal to the enemy that now is the best time to run up to you and use explosives because you can't fight back.