If reavers are so bad...

They're not, you just suck

in dodfight encounter:

-reaver: op with vertical thrust, escaping too fast from your sight.
-mosquito: xtrem mobility admited by most objectives pilots, same escaping from your sight as reaver but in all directions and all angle ^^.
-scythe: hover = static position to be easily targetable, ridiculous in 1vs1. could be good with quick acceleration/deceleration/pitch but not with ps2 turtle esf.


SOE close the debat and give us real stats.
but this will never be done cause it would be like:
50% Mosqui - 30% Reaver - 20% Scythe

and you dont have money/time/human ressource to recode/rebalancing esf and admit your error and the lack of fairnes in the stats attribution at the begining of ps2.
scythe smell so much the lack of idea after puting mosqui/reaver attributes, taking the cylon galactica model was the only good one.

Facts and stats show you otherwise, compared to other ESF's it's miles behind the other two vs them.

Sure it's fine against tanks/infantry, but VS othe rESF's it's by far the worse.

Because Air Hammer

Reavers are air superiority, Scythes are ground attack, annnnd Mossies are a kind of half-breed.

The Reaver definitely feels less **** vs other ESF's after some of the recent adjustments.

That said, I do not believe that it has exceeded the other ESF's based on the evidence you have cited.

-The reaver has a slight damage advantage now
>Offset by the other ESF's are harder to hit due to smaller hitboxes.
>Offset by the other ESF's are harder for a reaver to hit due to more dramatic gun/site parallax.

To address your points specifically:

1. Reavers have a slight advantage taking out a stationary target from close range, if the target didn't react to the sound of the reaver's engines.

When a mosquito is moving, it's smaller hitbox and adverse shape (no good places to aim that can soak up your entire cone of fire, along with it's faster movement speed give it an advantage over the other ESF's, and a big advantage over the reaver.

Another problem for the reaver is flak. They will take more flak damage due to the larger and better hitbox they carry. This isn't just a problem with flak, as the reaver is an easier target for all ground and air based units who wish to "add in".

2. Air hammer pretty much sucks in most situations. This is why you rarely see people use it, except for anti-infantry. The vortek is extremely important against some of these more experienced liberator pilots who you must engage from a distance.

3. The reaver's top speed falls off quickly, and since it has high mass to acheive that speed, it's a double edged sword. The mosquito has a higher median speed and can change directions while maintaining velocity.

4. Sustaining speed in one direction makes one an easy target. Losing velocity due to changing flight vectors makes one an easy target.

In other words, any advantages the reaver has are also balanced by disadvantages. Like most NC weapon systems, they are excellent when used within their intended areas of advantage. They also do poorly when caught in their areas of weakness.

That brings us to the situation today. Reavers used to be inferior in every way. Now that the playing field is more level, they will definitely be harder to fight than scythes who have always been decent.

Another aspect of reaver a2a is that it's more important for NC to shoot down other ESFs since those are more effective than Reavers against ground targets. Also, reavers will focus more on A2A because they are less effective against ground.

^Did he^ just answer his own question without realizing it?

I remember being in a squad who did tons of Galaxy drops, and when asked for A2A support, most people on TS admitted they were bad pilots outright. ...which wouldn't have even been a stumbling block if we were flying Scythes. But since it was the hardest to use ESF with the worst hitbox by far, only those of us with a decade of evasive flying experience bothered getting in one and then would live long enough to be a threat in one. Naturally that translates directly into superior flight patterns in the air. It's just like Chess, the guy who knows the classic moves & fake-outs will usually beat the neophyte regardless of handicap.

Also.... keep in mind that a lot of Reaver Pilots were under an additional handicap of suffering several bugs or other disadvantage that got patched out last month. The biggest one being how easily Moskies/Scythes could evade our Toms & poorly-mounted Cannon (vs. smaller hitboxes of the other 2 ESF's). The cannon's still poorly mounted but if that gets fixed, those better gunners won't even need to the Toms.

2) but if you don't quit and keep sucking at it?

The reaver has always had that damage advantage... fyi.

I would in an instant, "give" reavers the Mossy airframe in exchange for either the AH or their Rotary. The "smaller hitbox" is a red herring that many NC hold onto as a last thread or rationality to explain away their advantages that they constantly down-play... like now.

From ESF to ESF, the only one that is distinctly harder to hit is the Scythe, and that's only from a certain angle (from above or below, it's easier).

The only time a Mosquito has ANY chance of taking out a target without alerting them to their presence is from close range (remember, 88% accuracy required). I can hear all ESF engines from the moment they are in range to produce the noise. Another string "Mossy engines are quieter". In relation to Reavers, yes, inaudible no.

Reavers have superior movement speed, the Mossy's smaller hit box is barely smaller, and at the various ranges that dogfights happen, hitting the hit box isn't the issue, it's tracking targets that is.

http://imgur.com/VF6tENf

Me killing a BR60 mosquito pilot while I was in a raw/fresh BR1 Reaver, no points/certs into anything and 0 SC spent.

No, it doesn't. The Air Hammer is superior in more sitations than either of the other Empire "3rd choice" weapons. The only situation the other two empire's "3rd choice weapons" perform better than the AH is against infantry, which ironically the AH is lackluster in (by comparison). But anti vehicle, anti air, it's a beast.

Everyone's top speed falls off quickly, Reaver still has the highest sustained AB speed in the game, Highest AB speed, and when paired with tanks and a racer airframe, is the fastest thing in the sky 24/7

Thank you for explaining exactly why the Mosquito's "top cruising speed advantage" is a novelty.

Mosquito, other than banshee against infantry, have no advantageous weapon systems compared to the other factions.

I like how you are still living in this fantasy world where you think the video I posted illustrated a damage buff in GU4 of the Reaver rotary. Spoiler alert: They were always like this. I included GU4 so people would know 1. I was in VR, 2. The information was up to date.

Want to try again?

Because their AirHammer is messed up. It sucks at the one job it's supposed to be good at, but excels at everything else to a game altering degree. Know how much whining would happen on the forums from NC if they buffed the AH against infantry and nerfed it against everything else? (Like the banshee, which hits like small arms fire with low bullet velocity and lots of drop against everything but infantry). This is another case of NC crying "But it's balanced, look how badly it performs in this arena (A2G), it justifies all the domination we do in the air! - And the reaver isn't even bad at A2G since breaker rockets > Hellfires in all situations. (Photon pods arguably better than both).

The Reaver has an advantage that other ESF don't have, it's fast air breaking maneuver due to its high vertical acceleration. This allows the Reaver to bleed speed and enter semi-hover mode quicker than the other ESF. The Mosquito can also do this but it doesn't bleed as much speed and the Scythe bleeds the least so you play it somewhat differently. Once the Revear or any other ESF bleeds enough speed it literally becomes a turret and makes it much easier to lock or lead onto a target . Also the Reaver has harder hitting weapons by default. While your twisting and turning, the Reaver bleeds speed and get a target on u and ur done ( combined with its harder hitting weapons ).. unless u play it close to the ground or maneuver around the mountains and clutter, which by default is the Reavers weakness its slow turn rate..

I need to dig up some March stats, but here are the vehicle stats for the last week of February:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=20

You can see all the various scores there, but if you want to look at the BR10+ crowd:

For BR10+ pilots who have ESF play time >1 hour in the week of 2.22 to 2.28:

Score per hour:
NC: 3,278
TR: 3,495
VS: 3,758

For BR10+ pilots who have ESF play time >10 hours in the week 2.22 to 2.28 (so dedicated pilots):

Score per hour:
NC: 6,042
TR: 6,294
VS: 6,651




Reavers perform the worst of the three.

A lot of misconceptions flying around in this thread.

Mosquitos are the fastest ESF, with the highest acceleration as well.

The Mosquito has a significantly smaller hitbox than the Reaver, with a cigar shape which makes it harder to hit from the rear or the front. The Reaver is the easiest ESF to hit, from every angle.

http://i.imgur.com/NVukD.jpg

Every empire rotary can kill liberators faster than the Air hammer, and have a higher sustainable DPS than the air hammer unless you are talking about a very specific situation.

1) you sneak up on an aircraft and get within 50m without them moving

2) you can close your dog fighting distance to within 50m

In those situations the air hammer will have a slight advantage.

The Air Hammer is equally good against all targets, but only if you can get close enough for those targets to shoot you back. The Air Hammer is also the highest damage fall off of any air craft weapon.

Another thing to remember about the AIR HAMMER that people love to bring up is that it's essentially useless until you dump a few hundred certs into mag size. Only when you hit five or (ideally) 6 rounds in the magazine does it become a force to be reckoned with, and even then only when you're inside 50m, which essentially requires Racer Frame 3 (another 700 certs, and a huge sacrifice to maneuverability).

The Vortek rotary is honestly superior to the AH in pretty much every situation, provided you can aim. Granted, the convergence issues are more pronounced with it, but you can learn how to lead with the thing easily enough.

Is it Opposite Day or something?

I found that one thing that totally transformed the Reaver was mapping pitch up/pitch down to mouse buttons. Once I did that, the Reaver can easily turn/keep behind a Scythe without much trouble. Vortek hits hard and the slightly worse COF actually seems to be a plus to the M18 Rotary... I'm not a great shot but given all the leading and wasted shots these days with the rotary projectile speed nerf the larger spread actually helps a bit I think.

I haven't done anything with the AH other than play with it in VR. Also been running the Reaver with Breaker pods so no AB pods either... I'm not a great dogfighter by any means, and my Reaver has Hover 2 on it currently.

on top of this, the vortex does even more DPS per magazine than the AH. The AH is a fun weapon to play with, but it is a very poor weapon to really use (I have it certed to 6 rounds).

You all should try flying a reaver in combat before telling us some of these 'advantages' are really advantages.

I agree with the OP, I can't say how good are VS pilots because I never fight them, but...

I constantly laugh at TR pilots while flying...
They deconstruct
Bail out in mid air
Crash on environment when they try to run away
Suicide vs the nearest armor ally when i get them to 50% hp or so
They get in front of my Lib's belly gun for free
They ram my Libs and give me free XP without me even trying to ram them

LOL, most of them are way too stupid, there are VERY few exceptions tho.

I've seen a higher average skill on NC pilots, I actually respect them.


EDIT: BTW, I've never tried other faction ESFs, I play 100% VS, but my faction friends tell me they tried them at the virtual reality training room and told me that Reavers and Mossies have way better dog-fighting capabilities (specially turning) than Scythe: Mossy > Reaver > Scythe (they compared it as having "free" dog-fightning frames"). So maybe that's why the OP have easier time vs Scythe and harder vs Reavers
Does anyone else tried this?.

Or the bad reaver pilots never make as far as the battle... I don't suck, if you care to throw down, name a time and place man...

Skill isn't faction specific... on Miller all factions have some very good pilots, pilots that i can expect to die to. I try none the less, you only get better by practicing against the best. I think it is very egotistical to think that one faction has the best pilots, and even stupider to assume the 'best' pilots would choose the supposed worst ESF to fly with. Badly flawed argument doesn't hold water...

If he had Racer 3 your speed bonus is not as big as on default, but you are still faster a bit. With no upgrades...
The reaver is not completely bad, it's an ESF and you can kill stuff with it if you learned how to do it. It's just a bit harder to use then the other two because it has man smaller disadvantages.
For me the most annoying things are:
1) Gun offset and slow bullet speed - if a mossie is flying right in front of you at ~ 50m you can't point your crosshair at it, shoot and hit... you have to aim 1 "mossie-size" above it to actually hit.
In turnfights you have to lead alot. If the other pilot moves in crazy patterns it's very hard to hit him because of that.
2) Wailing sound - everybody in ~200m knows you are there immediately
3) Larger Hitbox... with actual wings that like to attach themself to nearby obstacles and teammates...