I give up, I'm joining the dumb faction just to avoid their MAX

The problem I have with scatmax is that I don't get the chance to turn and face them before I die sometimes.

So rude.

But OP, NC is the last place you want to join to avoid NC Maxes...

Do me (and yourself) a solid favor, while you are trying on blue, actually use the MAX.

Would you rather they stand directly behind you indefinitely, breathing down your neck with Grinders poised to strike? You wouldn't want to turn, and I forgot where I was going with this.

It's terrifying to have an NC MAX in the vicinity, even if you're NC yourself.

Shotguns on Max units was a flaw in and of itself. We shouldn't be blaming NC for using their max, that is ridiculous. On the flip side, any NC that states their max isn't the biznizz is also ridiculous.

Long story short, let's clarify both ends of the spectrum.

Why NC are annoyed:

1) Not nearly as strong at range compared to TR and VS Max units. While yes, with slugs they can be respectable at range...let's be serious that fully depends on if the slugs randomly want to group up correctly.
2) While there for balance, having such a restricted clip size leaves them defenseless longer than they would like.
3) They don't have any dedicated long range AI option. (Yes, they have ravens, but just because an AV option may work for AI doesn't mean that's how it should be...and lets be serious ravens need....a tweak).
4) Basically useless AI weapons when outside or in more open areas.


Why TR and VS are annoyed:

1) Ease of use of shotguns in short range. Listen, we all know the difference in TTK between something like Blueshifts/Mutilators and NC Max Shotguns is something like .? seconds. This is basically faster than human reaction time. So yes, if all rounds land, whether that infantry is being shot by a Mattock or a Blueshift really doesn't matter. This is where many NC misunderstand other factions, this is also where other factions misinterpret their annoyance. What REALLY ANNOYS US, is the fact that...its a shotgun. You can basically roflstomp enemy infantry and you don't have to really...aim, like...at all. With VS and TR weapons you actually have to land shots on target, let alone aim for headshots no matter what the range. The NC can just kinda...aim in the general direction of an enemy. So yes, while NC shotguns and VS/TR weapons are balanced damage/ttk wise...the fact it is so much easier for NC to put that damage on target (within range) is what makes it frustrating. Lets use an anecdote to help explain. A c4 toting engineer (or LA if you wish) is attacking a max; TR max has to land rounds on target and aim for the head to kill before C4 goes off; NC max puts it's reticle at least partway over the enemy and unloads. In either case the damage to the enemy will kill him quickly, but the NC just had to snapshot and let the cone of a shotgun do the work. It is just so much easier to put heavy burst damage down with a shotgun than a handheld rifle basically.

2) Yes, we get it, don't engage an NC max in close range. This is a rather simple concept right? Problem is, every...EVERY control point is in close combat. What else? Anywhere you need to go, you're probably going to have to go through a doorway, same problem. Hallways, doorways, windows, staircases, walled in areas....the number of areas where an NC max (theoretically) rain supreme is not only numerous, but oftentimes there is no way to avoid it. If you want to get to the objective, you need to come face to face with an NC max. Listen...it doesn't matter how skilled we are, if the game basically makes us walk through tight spaces to complete our missions, that's what we have to do. Otherwise, if we followed the "well just don't fight NC in small spaces) advice, no one would ever push on an NC base ever again.

3) VS and TR have nothing even close to equivalent to the shotguns on NC maxes.

4) The weakness of NC shotguns is their short range. Problem is, they have charge, which negates that much of the time. They also have the Aegis Shield which supplements that playstyle. While the shield isn't a problem (at least in my opinion) there is nothing MORE ANNOYING than seeing an NC max at a respectable distance, turning to try and avoid it (the smart move), then turning back and realizing that same max has decided to charge right up to you and plaster you before you walked 5 feet.



So, both sides have valid points, and many of them I haven't even listed because I either forgot or just plain don't know them. One of the obvious choices is simply, give all Maxes a shotgun. Basically give NS shotguns to VS/TR. I hate this idea, one it devalues the NC's most iconic Max weapon. Two, and more importantly, shotguns on armored max suits against infantry is HORRIBLE, they kill too quickly too easily, then add that onto an armored mobile infantry unit and it's just cheese at that point. The second, and much better idea is plainly, take shotguns away from NC. (Hold your rage for a moment NC). Take their shotguns away, the only NC players who really love those shotguns either; A, be just as happy with a proper equivalent, or B, love abusing the weapon thereby giving all NC players a bad name. That being said, give NC gauss weaponry (cannons) on their max that mirror how the TR and VS work, but with one change. Obviously make them work like most NC weaponry. Slow rate of fire, high damage profile, high damage per magazine, a tiny tiny bit lower burst damage (like a Big Boy Gauss Saw). The only thing they would have to be somewhat neutered on would be accuracy, make it no more accurate than the TR/VS equivalent (if not a little less considering headshots would be easier and with a higher damage profile that could prove bad). While I want to make them more accurate (as they are slower firing) that would make it WAY too strong against enemy infantry at longer ranges. To compensate, they will have high damage per magazine which will make them marginally better enemy Max killers. Nothing too strong of course, the quicker reloads of VS or TR counterparts will help balance out the damage output, but the NC max should be able to do that damage without a reload while the VS and TR can do that same damage but must reload once.

This way, NC receives a more universally useful weapon (at the cost of their shotguns...which I really think should go.) If they kept those shotguns, it'd be completely unfair and we all know it. VS and TR wouldn't have to put up with being forced to walk into NC max spam. And everyone is happy.

just wait till he gets wtfpwned from 30m by a pair of blueshifts shooting out of the point room at a base he is trying to defend.

VS maxes hold points with more kills in their loadout and less downtime, NC maxes break holds, TR maxes do something in between, all of them are great if you don't suck, and painful if you do.

At point blank, an NC MAX will kill you before you can react.
At point blank, a VS/TR MAX will kill you before you can react.

This seems like a very silly reason to switch sides and I don't think it will affect your gameplay in any significant way, but considering how poorly NC performs on all servers I can't say I'm against anything that gives them more players.

^^this. please do it. everyone who has troubles with shotgun-maxes should do exactly this.

arent you on emerald

didnt i poke you in the butt today

Supersoldier vs. Door camper. Pick one.

This character hardly sees play, but we've killed each other.

But... but neighbor thread says that NC MAX is ineffective trash!

cool cool, i'll just put Kinetic armour on my VS and TR maxes so it becomes IMPOSSIBLE for you to kill me in a 1 on 1

If you are trying to hug NC MAXes, you are going to have a bad time.

I bet 90% of all TR, VS *and* NC was on their way here to post this point.

Honestly, if you want to not get blown away by NC MAX'es, going to the one place where you find the most of them is not a good idea ^^

Could jsut stay with TR/VS and fight VS/TR instead of NC

Or stay more than 20m away from NC MAXes...

--Sounds more like user error, as opposed to a problem with the class. Maybe bind fire to something less likely to get nudged by your palsy-ridden cheetoh-stained hands. Still, I'd like to see them nerfed, but that's because I'm a Vanu, and the game just doesn't seem......right....unless my stuff is better than NC's.

I would really advise you to play a few days of nothing but Scattermax before you decide.
As someone who plays all 3 factions and like to play MAX from time to time, i can tell you that its not as easy as people make it out to be compared to TR/VS counterparts.

It has lots of limitations.
Sure it has 0TTK and it sucks to get OHKd without being able to fight back, but you dont see the other 80% of the time when the MAX goes "Ugh. If only i had a VS/TR MAX i would have lived/killed him"
I think OHK weapons naturally generate alot of "This must be OP" feelings, but i think its mostly because you (on the receiving end) dont see any of the drawbacks.

Hold on there, op. If that is your reason for joining our organization, we must decline. The NC is already overloaded with dimwits, dingbats and dumbasses. Sorry, but Lady Freedom demands better. She deserves better. Please don't burden us with more stupid. Thank you.

tone down the ableism