Reading comprehension failure. He is comparing the Magrider to the Vanguard. I don't think anyone is crazy enough to say that the Magrider is better than the current Prowler at Infantry farming. This isn't a MBT balance thread though. MAX balance fix: Create Gauss MG. Share shotgun. So ******* simple... But this was ignore back in beta. Probably still going to be ignore now.
Give the NC a 700RPM CQC low recoil LMG so our heavy soldiers are adapt at CQC Look at how front line soldiers work NC Max in the front due to their high burst CQC damage will wreck anything NC Gauss Saw behind them due to their high burst but larger cone of fire so it needs to ADS to be used effectively TR/VS Max have a lower downtime versus the NC Max allowing it to suppress and harass people from safe distances letting the... surprise surprise heavy assault go in to stop them from taking a C4/rocket/bullet spam to the face TR/VS T9Carv, and Orion are both vastly superior CQC guns compared to the SAW, stock and fully upgraded... the SAW is not meant to be a CQC like gun, but what the SAW stands for SQUAD.... AUTOMATIC... WEAPON. Due to lag, bunny hopping, looser cone of fire, you have to ADS the sight unless they're in your face to use that versus a T9Carv without skilled hands is merely death If the TR/VS Max's became equals in CQC that would mean either a new smg would come out or the SAW would be designed for CQC (i would love to see some originality in the developers and having a slow fireing 200 damage CQC gun....) You just have to understand how vulnerable the NC MAX is, out in the open, and inside as the front line soldier for the NC forces, the developers understand what they're doing, anything past 10M+ predicted combat we have to bull out our ANTI air cannons to be the pushing force Also what the **** is a NC max going to need the upcoming flamethrower for, they're giving another CQC gun to the NC MAX, and a CQC gun for everyone else (which they have just seem to ignore) The hacksaw is slightly a problem, and so is almost every other automatic shotgun.... they have the same required number shots to kill, with no failure of clicking to early or late with a semiautomatic, and fire faster then a semi-automatic. Automatic shotguns are just vastly superior to their semi-automatics....
For those of you who think there is no flaw in the current MAX balance system: Currently, a dual-Hacksaw NC MAX can shoot 10 rounds a second, and can kill a maximum of 12 infantry in 1.40 seconds, before reloading. Assuming 100% accuracy and no over kill. More than 8 infantry kills per second! Currently, a dual-Mercy TR MAX can shoot 14 rounds a second, and can kill a maximum of 14 infantry in 7.1 seconds, before reloading. Assuming 100% accuracy and no over kill. Less than 2 infantry kills per second! NC MAXs never have to engage enemies outside of their preferred range of 10-20 meters (cover, and spawn shields dictate this). Additionally, because MAXs have 'Charge' that can be used up to every 30 seconds, most of the time NC MAXs can always engage their enemy within their preferred range. There is no balance from this because there is no time in which an NC MAX has to fight at a disadvantage. TR and VS MAXs therefore when fighting NC MAXs must virtually always fight at a disadvantage which completely removes the 'range advantage' they supposedly have. Additionally, most of the killing anti-infantry MAXs do is within 20 meters anyway -- for TR and VS as well -- this so called advantage they share then is next to negligible against infantry and inane to be considered. So it should be clear that changes are necessary. Either TR and VS MAXs should be buffed, or NC MAXs should be nerfed. Should we apply Higby's maxim of balance from GU04 from MBTs to MAXs? That similar methods of killing should yield near-exact death tolls in a near-exact amount of time. According to Higby's logic we can assume then that the Mercy's rate-of-fire should be roughly 5 times greater than it currently is, from 426 RPM to 2130 RPM assuming no damage increase as well to show just how absurd that would be. Or we could change the NC MAXs design, tone it down. Which sounds more reasonable? Even if the Hacksaw had its rate-of-fire toned down from 300 RPM to 120 RPM it would still out perform dual-Mercy TR MAXs by 142% -- it has that big of an advantage. Right now the NC MAX is at least 4.35 times more powerful than any other MAX at killing infantry. Even if you made TR and VS MAXs 4 times more powerful than they currently are, the NC MAX would still out perform them at close range. I don't think anyone logical is calling for a buff at such a scale for TR and VS MAXs, they are calling for the NC MAX to be toned down. Lowering the Hacksaw's rate-of-fire from 300 RPM to 90 RPM seems a viable way to do just that. NC MAXs would still be able to kill any enemy MAX in 12 shots, over 4.0 seconds (assuming 10,000 MAX effective hitpoints; i.e. 2000 hp with 80% resistance to bullets). While a dual-Mercy MAX would require 70 rounds shot over 4.93 seconds. The NC MAX would still be undisputed king of close range which is where MAXs already reign supreme, but the NC MAX would be at least somewhere near the line that the TR and VS MAXs are -- which is by definition the balance that should be sought in such a game. As extra information to show just how large the current disparity is between MAXs, a dual-Hacksaw NC MAX can kill any other enemy MAX with just 12 rounds taking only 1.20 seconds. A dual-Mercy TR MAX requires 70 rounds taking 4.93 seconds. The dual-Hacksaw MAX is at least 401% better at killing other MAXs within the realm MAXs triumph -- at close range.
Godmode is something entirely different than having an upper hand in one particular scenario. And as I've stated before: each faction is supposed to excel at something. Shall we have a discussion about what those things are instead? Why can't you get over the fact that the NC has the biggest firepower in CQC and the slowest rate of fire, least accurate weapons, biggest recoil and least maneuverability? And now you're mad that our weapons pack a punch in close range? Come on man... get real and stop the whining.
Look guys, flamethrowers are coming out soon. Flamethrowers will be a comparable short range weapon like the scatter guns. Just be a little patient and you will have what youre asking for. And you are not going to like being neutered at medium and long range.
Youre argument is only taken in the context of a short range fight. The nc max has issues at killing other max at over 5 meters. Your solution would weaken the nc max at cqc and the nc scat max isnt good at all at medium or long range. Basically you would make the nc max virtually unusable.
I don't disagree that the NC Max is better at what it does than both TR and VS; but your maths above is a little contrived. I challenge you to hit 12 infantry in 1.40 seconds anywhere but inside a friendly spawn room with your mates all lined up in a row. I then challenge you to screen cap any instance where you come across 12 enemies in a 20m radius of you. See how many shots you get off before being utterly annihilated. I see what you're saying, but cover and spawn shields aren't compatible with 8 kills per second maths. Where the NC max seems to be overpowered in how people use it. Everyone likes to walk around - sometimes on their own - and the NC max is better at this than the other maxes. It's not as good at point lock down though as part of a mixed-class squad. Just as it wasn't in PS1.
The answer is simple, and it won't get done. Reduce all AI damage to max suits. This way AV MAX > AI MAX, as it stands the NC AV/AI MAX > TR/VS MAX. This needs to be balanced.
Hell no. I have a faster midrange TTK with my LC2 Lynx than I do with dual mercies. Duel mercies should have the faster ttk at that range which means we'd need to keep our accuracy (which isn't even that good anyway).
DO NOT CHANGE THE NC AI MAX. Leave it as is. Reduce ALL AI Max damage to other Maxes. DO NOT change AI Max damage vs Infantry. Increase ALL AV Max damage VS other Maxes. Do not change AV Max damage vs infantry. Dual Hacksaw, Mercy, Cosmos AI Max bothering you? Pull a Dual AV Max and pwn his butt. Maxes should be the best counter to other maxes.
Ok, a try without nerfing the weapons: We all agree that NC maxes are really good at their "effective range". VS and TR MAXes, while not bad, encounter different problems at their specific "effective range". (everybody knows how enemies simply shoot at VS and TR maxes while trying to flee from NC Maxes, should be an indicator) TTK on NC maxes in effective range nullifies enemy possibility to adapt, take out an Launcher, take out C4 or whatsoever. - VS and TR maxes have the problem, also because of higher TTK, that they take too much damage in their effective range while trying to kill enemies who can also adopt to the situation. Also their supporting engineers are without cover in the effective range (aka outside or open space). - Maxes outside are generally first target and an easy one also (rly dont have to aim and you know you get shots from ALL sides when outside). To even out balance in favor of VS and TR to be effective in their domain, they should be less vulnerable. So, AI resistance is afaik momentally at a base of 80%. Push this to 87% (for TR and VS only) +the 5% you get by certing resistance so that they can play their role. Also give them eventually a buff to explosive resistance. Lorewise it is absurd to make TR and VS the sturdiest ones, but this is only for balancing it out a bad mechanic. Remove Slug ammo from NC maxes so enemies always know it is a CQC Max (was shot down by NC Maxes at 25-30 meters as i thought they cannot be in the effective range.....you know, rare, but, surprise surprise, while you always know what awaits you when encountering a VS or TR Max ) Remove Charge from all Maxes (normally i had said that only NC, but to be fair then, all should have removed it). It simply is frustrating to shoot at an max at effective range (20m) which is outrepaired by the engineer behind the wall. While he cant kill you at that range when being repaired also, he can charge simply in and destroy me... of course i can flee, but let my engineer die, and give up the cappoint. Win WIn for NC max. Momentally it is so, that when a VS or TR max is coming into the terrain of NC MAX, they will be instagibbed. On the other hand, the advantage of distance can be easily overthrown by a NC max by charge. A possible counter (VS or TR Max Charge away) could be contraproductive for the metagame, means giving up cappoints strategic positions. So remove Charge or make it so that you have a 6 seconds cooldown to shooting people after using it, so you cant use it Aggressivly. With these changes without changing damage values, the NC Max still inhabits the CQC superiority (and even with the new resist values should kill a VS or NC max iN CQC), while VS and TR are finally claiming their place in the sun.
Which would be a signficiant DPS upgrade. TR MAXs already out-DPS the NC MAXs (AI) from 9m+: It's the Shotgun vs LMG comparrision, a Shotgun is a Shotgun and a LMG is a LMG, a Shotgun can't have LMG level ranged DPS and a LMG can't have Shotgun level CQC DPS.
let's ignore that TR max already win's against NC maxes.. (new vid but don't show the max's POW, so i'm assuming ppl will flame it for that) older vid. still holds true but sure let's ignore video prof and listen to random facts some1 pulled out there behind.. this is all the soft point ammo talk again - ppl was SURE and could prove it reduced the dmg at range.. but then dev's come out and told us it wasn't so.. unless you can make a video of what you speak off, i'll just assume you are trying to do a well put and well executed troll
There is also a huge drawback to the NC max being CQC and having no range >10m (hell 5m if want to kill in 1from each arm). You have to stand near doors!! That means c4,tank mines, grenades of all kinds. We fall easy prey to them. While the VS/TR max can stand back 10-15m and spew endless amounts of bullets at incoming infantry out of the way of the c4/mines/grenades and actually have a chance of avoiding a rocket that would pt blank a NC max. So NC max has to take a lot of risk to hold those doors against smart enemies, dumb ones just make me reload and then the smart ones get me in that 4seconds. I have found it much harder to take a Gen room from TR than from NC since they can stay back out of direct explosion damage and hit the incoming NC with explosions as enter and sustain MAX fire after keeping NC max and infantry from getting close enough to engage. Each requires a specific attack and defense posture, i think its great and leave it like it is. Each has strength, each has weaknesses. Don't be a lemming.
