Honest opinion on the VS Mag Rider?

It could also be that the other factions have already spent resources on maxes etc.

Can you do a compare across all pulls? I can see where nc would pull more maxes and the vs pull more scythes.

MAXes and ESFs are difficult because you have one person with two weapons... so it's really hard to figure out how many actual MAX hours or ESF hours there are. It's not like counting Lightning or MBT hours.

It might not be a problem if you're comparing MAX or ESF pulls between factions, but comparing MAX pulls to MBT pulls can't properly be done with the current data.

So it's like trying to figure out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

If you tested it by:
1) Giving Person A a single tootsie pop.
2) Giving Person B two tootsie pops, and having them randomly lick each one.

Then yes, it is somewhat like that.

I only fly the Scythe, so I don't find myself fearing Magriders that much, (^ ^), What I will say is that it is very hard compensating for the horrendous lack of gun elevation when I drive one, (albeit that my experience is not very developed with the Magrider, and am still learning how to use it). I find that the Magrider is good against bigger aircraft such as the Galaxy in the Liberator, though against an ESF, while I drive one, I find it very hard to defend myself with even the most skilful of secondary gunners.

As a dedicated Scythe pilot, (I am also still learning how to fly this, as well), I fear the Lightning the most, then the Prowler, (because of the Gatekeeper and the Vulcan - they both make quite good makeshift AA guns), then the Vanguard. I find attacking the Vanguard in my Scythe the easiest and least threatening, though there's something about the Prowler that just makes me try to avoid it, (this is because of a series of encounters between myself and several Prowlers hitting me whilst travelling at full speed in my Scythe - bad experiences like those stay with you).

I fear the Lightning the most not because it can mount the Skyguard, (though this gun does also shred through ESFs); I fear it because, as a semi-not-bad-ish Lightning driver, when being attacked by an audacious Reaver or Mosquito pilot, I have shot so many down by smacking them in the face with a HEAT round. As an aspiring Magrider driver, I have much to learn, and I do not fear the Magrider simply because I do not have to face them. In my experience, and down to testing done by others as well, I find AA with a standard gun in the Magrider much harder than in tanks such as the Lightning.

If you encounter an ESF flying low enough and with little consideration of their surroundings and potential threats, then the Magrider will be effective at AA. Unfortunately, the sky is dominated by ESF pilots who really know what they're doing, and find Magriders easy prey. The trick to killing one from above is to read the terrain and predict his moves; make effective use of flying in reverse to keep him spinning and to distract him, (or to keep him in your sights if he ignores you), and above all do not fall into the region of his gun elevation while he is facing in your direction. This is how I find myself being killed by ESFs in the Magrider, and also killing other tanks in my Scythe.

Having said that, I did Google what you recommended. Most of what I saw were extremely lucky shots against inexperienced pilots, though it proves that they do indeed happen.

Things like this is why I fear the Magrider. Granted that is some extreme things that can only be done in certain places. But I have seen some Magrider pilots do some funky maneuvers to turn the tables. But that shows you want the Magrdier can do in expert hands, who knows the terrain around them and how they can use it with the abilities of the Magrider.

It places an almost extreme requirement of skill (and luck, to some extent) for the magrider to even out the lack of a direct combat advantage though. That said, it's part of why I absolutely adore the thing, in spite of all the restrictions that apply.

When you get good with the Mag, air will kill you more often than anything else. Unless you have angle to return fire or are next to cover you are pretty much dead.

If you can, attack from on high at medium or long range. In close, take your time and attack from somewhere where you can 'peek and shoot' or can make a quick exit. If you find the time, set mines on choke points behind you. If up against good drivers in close, set mine traps close to where you are attacking from as they know to charge you for that 'easy kill'. They will also most often use stealth so learn to listen and not rely on the mini map.

Just remember that all things being equal, a vanguard or prowler will always beat you in close, so play with that in mind. Ideally, do not enter a hex without knowing where the opposition is first.

Oh and a final bit of general advice, don't linger in the same area, especially after ganking a high BR player. That venge pull will be heading your way in approx 20 seconds.

Lol. Any tank can use terrain to help it aim at aerial threats. I do it all the time in my lightning. I actually have better luck downing air targets with an ap lightning posted on an incline than i do with a sky"guard". The gist of what you said is that the magrider is an easy target unless they can use terrain, while the vanguard can knock you down easily. We already know that.

Having a lower elevation on the mag's main gun is an actuality. It's not imagined by other players, or something that's a l2p issue. It's the design of the tank. Being able to play around this design flaw doesn't mean those flaws don't exist. All vehicles can use terrain to raise their weapon elevation.

...and yet - just looking at what kills air, the P2-120AP and Titan-150AP are way ahead of the Supernova FPC (at least twice as effective whenever a comparison can be made, as the FPC doesn't often appear in the top 25 death reasons, whereas the Titan and P2 nearly always do).

Afraid your fear is unfounded - the Magrider is hands-down the worst at against air. Titan is generally the best although the P2 is best against Galaxys.

If i'm in a Magrider i'm especially cautious of air, it really is that bad. I've hit plenty of (surprised!) ESFs in my Vanguard though, the elevation helps but it's really the shell speed and relative lack of drop that makes the biggest difference...

Vanguard and prowlers will beat you 1v1 at any range, assuming equal skill and "gear". Magrider had a purpose once and that was AI with the PPA. Now it's just all-round meh.

Still the most fun tank to drive.

I would go and recheck that. I just checked and neither the Maggy or the Prowler appear on the top list for the last 30 days on ESF kills.

On a side note, Saron came in fourth place, only beaten by the Needler as a weapon!!! Who needs (or even cares about) the main canon, when your secondary can outperform all other ground AA options and pretty much every air option (which are supposed to be the true AA option according to the devs).

Saron Laser Cannon or Saron HRB?

Assuming you meant the former, well if the Hailstorm Turbo Laser wasn't pants then maybe it'd see wider use.

It lacks a combat utility like vanguard and prowler.
If it had some ability that removed drop & increased damage of the main gun a bit it could be fun, but right now all it has is the poof burner, which is only really useful for chasing harassers and going up hills easier or hills you shouldn't go up.

Does not Compute.

The Magrider is indeed fun to drive around once you have the basics down, and you can indeed get into odd places with it... These are of limited value, however. Any enclosed area that allows you to shoot from cover makes you absolute fodder for C4 faeries, and any open, upraised areas make you easy prey for Air, especially since the Magrider has the least effectiveness vs Air due to the locked turret.

This was true prior to the PPA nerf, the Magrider no longer has a way to do this compared to the Prowler especially.

As it stands, the Prowler dominates in all categories, there's simply no comparison to other MBTs. Here's the stats - they speak for themselves. This will be an extremely broad overview of the tank and it's weapons overall, no focus on the stats of any individual weapon for any faction's MBT.



The Prowler has two primaries in the top 3 ranks. Both the prowler's AP and HEAT outclass anything the Magrider can bring to the table, and the P2-AP outclasses the Titan's AP significantly in every category (Not counting AA,)

In terms of primaries, a combination of all three primary types - Kills / Uniques / KPU
TR's Performance: 19359 from 2331 users - 8.31 KPU
NC's Performance: 12531 from 1832 users - 6.84 KPU
VS's Performance 11868 from 1624 users - 7.3 KPU

The TR win, by a significant margin.

Now, to look at secondaries - I shaved off Basalisks, Kobalts, Walkers and Rangers, they were all below the bottom of the list, with less then 600 combined users over all factions. (Except for the TR / NC Basalisks, which appear to have surpassed the PPA, which doesn't surprise me given how terrible the thing is now.)


Combined numbers for each faction, Kills, Uniques, KPU.
TR: Gatekeeper, Vulcan, Halberd, Marauder: 6753 from 1613 users - 4.18 KPU
NC: Mjolnir, Enforcer, Halberd, Canister: 5962 from 1260 users - 4.7 KPU
VS: Aphelion, Saron, Halberd, PPA: 6061 from 1401 users - 4.32 KPU

Now, compare Primary users vs Secondary users:
TR: 2331 Pilots, 1613 gunners: 69% of prowlers used gunners.
NC: 1832 Pilots, 1260 gunners: 68% of vanguards used gunners
VS: 1624 Pilots, 1401 gunners: 87% of magriders used gunners

For Primary guns, we can conclude that the TR has superior options, to generate numbers that demonstrate just how much they are surpassing the VS / NC. Interestingly enough, the NC / VS have identical KPU on their AP primaries.

For Secondaries: The TR are using a massive volume of secondary gunners (compared to a few months ago, when I did this comparison prior to the new ES AV implementation. The TR were using secondary gunners at a rate of ~27-32%, the NC was ~45-50%, and the VS was ~80%+.) The VS have always used the highest percentage of Secondary gunners just to keep up overall.

To sum it up, TR are now actually using secondary gunners, and given the sheer output of the Gatekeeper paired with what was already the best primary cannon lineup, the performance of the already #1 tank has shot through the roof, while the VS / NC are competing essentially on par, within a few percent of one another, overall. The NC's shield gives them an advantage in 1v1 vs the Magrider, which puts it firmly in spot #3, as the Magrider cannot go effectively against either the highest DPS tank, or the highest defense / alpha tank without a positional advantage.

The Magrider has the highest skill cap, and the lowest overall output (It's the slowest ground vehicle in the game)
The Vanguard has to think about where it wants to be due to acceleration / poor handling, but is generally a powerhouse with an 'oh crap!' shield button.
The Prowler murders whatever it looks at.

But thats the case for all the tanks. Even more so for the tanks that can't just spidertank up the wall leaving said c4 fairy in the dust.

Perhaps, but it isn't the primary intended advantage for all tanks. To gain any sort of a major advantage, the magrider must do something like this, the Prowler / Vanguard only can do something like this, it isn't required to meet their full potential.

Please show me the mountain / hill / wall that a Magrider can traverse that a Light Assault with a Jetpack cannot. I have yet to find one of these in the last 3 years. I can get weirder places in a boost flash then I can in my Magrider, and the LA trumps both.

On the supposed over performance of Prowlers: looking at MBT deaths from the last 3 days, Prowlers have significantly higher death rate than Vanguards, and slightly higher death rate than Mags.

Dividing # dead by percent kill, we stand at:
P: 254662 deaths
V: 204544 deaths
M: 202421 deaths

Dividing by play time (of respective APs ONLY) in the last month we get average unit death per hour:
P: 254662 / 12377 = 20.58
V: 204544 / 13898 = 14.72
M: 202421 / 10623 = 19.05


The Prowler's high damage output is counter balanced by it's low defensive capabilities; when K/D is compared across the board, there is a <5% difference between Prowler and Magrider. The only one over performing here is the Vanguard.

Air is supposed to be a hard counter to ground armor. The percentage of air being downed by tank primaries is probably very low compared to dedicated AA such as burster maxes, HMGs, and lock on launchers (and hell probably even small arms fire); I know that on the rare occasions that I fly, damage from tanks hardly registers as a threat in my mind. Complaining that a tank can't do what it's not supposed to do is not called for.