Honest opinion on the VS Mag Rider?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Thrix, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. Bu11ish

    The thing is you can't just look at infantry kills - the prowler has 2 1HK guns, that's double the opportunity to instagib infantry. But at any time on the battle field there's likely 10 times more infantry than MBTs vehicles, meaning infantry deaths to tanks is of a low proportion to infantry deaths to other infantry, so a vehicle kill is "worth" 10 times more than a vanilla infantry kill. In V-KPU, the Mag outclasses the Prowler by 0.28, more than enough to make up for whatever deficit in infantry KPU.

    Again, it's about the vehicle kills when it comes to tanking. And again, the Mag is at the top of the list, with 3 secondaries in the top 5, the other two being split between NC and TR.

    This is only if we look at the most inefficient uses of said tanks. The most efficient, combat effective, and objective-driven use of MBTs is to kill lightnings, Sunderers, and other MBTs. In this category, the 3 MBTs are somewhat balanced, with the Mag having a slight V-KPU edge over the other tanks, Vanguard having a significantly lower death rate, and Prowler having a faster kill/time rate.
  2. Mongychops


    Right, but as we have already shown by Prowler AP getting more kills than Magrider AP, the Prowler uses more HEAT as a percentage of usage than the other MBTs, while the Vanguard uses the greatest proportion of AP. So only comparing AP is inherently misleading, as it will understate TR kills, and overstate NC kills by playtime. While TR play with AP 52.7% of the time, VS use it 56.4%, and NC 62.5% of the time.

    Recalculating this, I ended up with Deaths per hour for all three main guns as:

    VS = 11.32
    NC = 10.50
    TR = 10.73

    Which is much close, with the only slight outlier being the VS, dying slightly more.

    Unfortunately, these kinds of comparisons aren't really that informative, the different tanks have different playstyles, with Magriders more often used in high risk flanking, and performing particularly poorly in the hands of new players. Looking at the "Q4" stats will probably be more informative.

    Oh, and I wouldn't bring up the main gun K/Ds if I were you, across all three MBTs the K/Ds are 1.76 for the VS, 1.84 for the NC, and a whopping 2.28 for the TR. Now, of course we would expect that due to the main gun differences, however, I would appreciate it if TR players would stop using the Saron HRB's balance of short range and long range power as an example of it being a too powerful secondary, when it's supposed to be better than the others to offset the poor main gun.
    • Up x 1
  3. Bu11ish

    I stand corrected.
  4. Mongychops



    I've already pointed out how leaving out non-AP cannons from the death rate stats is an inexcusable mistake, when the death stats are for all loadouts of MBT, and the Prowler uses AP the least.

    However, this Magrider comparison is nonsense.

    Firstly, the average Magrider AP user is 4 ranks higher than the average TR user so is on average probably has more experience, and certs in their tank (so would perform better).

    Secondly, the average Magrider AP user plays for 27.1 minutes a day, while the Prowler AP user is 24.4 minutes, so VKPU should be higher all things being equal.

    Thirdly, as has already been shown, Prowler drivers spend far more of that lower amount of time sniping infantry rather than shooting vehicles compared to other MBTs.

    Fourthly, Something which has a more niche use, may be used less often, but in a better situations, appearing to perform better per user/time than it would in a "normal" situation.

    If you want any more proof of that last point, look at overall vehicle death stats. Prowler AP is the number one cause of death for; Vanguards, Magriders, Sunderers, and (after the stock launchers) Lightnings. Don't try and claim the Magrider AP is somehow "more effective at killing vehicles" than Prowler AP.
    • Up x 3
  5. Bu11ish

    That just confirms that FPCs survive longer per unit, not that the players play longer. Surviving longer doesn't make VKPU less meaningless.

    If a tanker wanted to farm infantry, he'd pull the cheaper Viper Lightning that has 3 times the 1HK shots per magazine. Prowlers hit the infantry because of the infantry, not because of the Prowler.

    Prowlers are aslo the number one tanks to die. It has already been established that P2 AP units are pulled 27.5% times more than FPCs, so of course it is expected that P2 AP is the number 1 cause of death among the 3 factions. In addition, NC and Vanu pull more Sunders and significantly more lightnings than TR - more pulls = more kills and deaths.
  6. Silkensmooth

    Mobility is everything in combat and the maggy is the most mobile.

    It is my favorite tank.

    The other two are just awful.
    • Up x 1
  7. TheKhopesh


    As a long time player (though primarily NC), I find that the Mag is a very good tank, but it's exceptionally difficult for the player to learn how to utilize it best in it's desired role.

    (You really don't appreciate how incredible it's omni-directional strafing capabilities are until you try to hit a talented mag driver with a Phoenix launcher. It really drives home how wide it's potentials are IF the guy behind the wheel REALLY knows what he's doing.
    Luckily for my Phoenix, not too many VS are all that great with them. ;) )
  8. Towie

    Oh dear - the Saron Laser Cannon is the gun on the Scythe, it's not the Magrider version (Saron HRB) - which doesn't appear on the list at all.

    I never said that the P2-120AP and Titan-150AP were 'best' at taking out air, that would be ridiculous when there is specific AA out there. I was just comparing the MBT cannons - and the P2 and Titan are head and shoulders above the FPC (neither are good - but both are better than the FPC).

    ESFs are prone to Skyguards but interestingly, more Liberators are killed by P2 or Titan than any Skyguard. The exception - you guessed it, the FPC.

    But honestly, don't take my word for it, go pull a Magrider and try to take out air. It really is laughably bad at it.
  9. Jake the Dog

    It really doesn't though, past 100m and sometimes at 50ish you can dodge incoming shots by timing the reload speed in your head than changing directions. The best tanking experiences I've had were in a magrider at 50m+ due to the inability of other tanks to hit me in open terrain (Northern Indar where you cannot arguably spidertank everywhere)
  10. Mongychops

    No, KPU is kills per "unique" user, not per unit. I have already shown that the Magrider dies more often per hour playtime than the other MBTs. The users tend to play the Magrider longer, even though their usually more aggressive play-style means you need to spawn them more.


    Wrong again, the Viper lightning does not OHK even non Flak Armour infantry with a direct hit. A direct hit does 345 + 450 splash = 795 damage. You need to do 1000 damage to OHK ordinary infantry, and 900 to OHK an infiltrator. Add in the fact the Viper Lightning has a much lower velocity than the Prowler main guns (200 m/s, compared to 250 without anchor), and the Prowler is far better at sniping infantry. The fact you don't even know the Viper doesn't OHK infantry speaks volumes about whether you actually practice your claims...

    You are missing the point.

    Why is the Prowler used most often? Why do other factions use Lightnings more often instead of MBTs? It's because the Prowler is more often than not the most powerful option in a situation, while other factions tend to use their MBTs in more optimal situations. The NC use the Vanguard when they can fight other tanks/vehicles, and the VS tend to use the Magrider more when playing as a "heavy Harasser" is viable. It's because the Prowler is at 1/2 still an upgrade on the Lightning, while the other factions will more often only take an MBT when they can get a competent gunner.

    Next you'll be telling me that the only reason TR ES AI, and Gen 1 & 2 AV weapons on the Harasser are by far the most used, is because TR just play more Harassers (and completely ignore the fact TR use NS Harasser weapons the least of all factions HMMM I WONDER WHY).
    • Up x 2
  11. Megalegs

    Viper rocks though, puts out more than double the splash damage of the HE shell in a slightly smaller radius over the 6 shots. With a few direct hits included it can take out 6-12 quite easily over a salvo if well placed and they're a tightish squad.

    Slightly longer reload not an issue with cover available.

    It doesn't lose out too much vs armour either for the sake of it.

    Velocity at range is the only problem with the drop.
  12. GhostAvatar


    Sorry, my mistake. That will teach me to post in the small hours of the night/morning. Other than that, I will leave you the below video (with acknowledge by a well know and skilled player), along with your obvious faction bias that isn't fooling anyone with a IQ over 80.



    P.S. And I said as a pilot. Compare Libs as pilots is like compare MAX units to infantry.
  13. Mianera

    Aherm.....

    My opinion of the Magrider is that it SUCKS. In PS2 awareness is everything and only being able to look forward is a massive cripple to combat effectiveness.

    Is the boost worth a thing? Nope. Would it be stronger with lockdown or shield? Yep.

    Do I primarily hunt Magriders in my MBT's or Lightnings? OOOOH YESH!

  14. Flag

    If a Vanguard or Prowler can't hit you at 50 meters, then they're absurdly bad. The shell travel time in this case is 0.2 seconds for the prowler, slightly less for the Vanguard. How exactly can a mag move out of the way in that time frame? The answer is: It can't, the VG/Prowler has to **** up their own aim/miss.
  15. LodeTria


    Well you really shouldn't go up on those giant cliffs on hossin, you just become a massive magnet for every ****ter in his ESf or lib.
  16. Shiaari


    What a lovely contradiction you've woven.

    "Look! This tank can strafe at but a fraction of its forward speed, which is the slowest of all the tanks in the first place. This tank is therefore the most mobile."

    It's hard to be the most mobile tank when you're the slowest.
  17. LodeTria


    With Racer, both the mag and vanguard go 65.
    • Up x 1
  18. Jubikus

    Honestly im not a fan of the magrider because of how it functions and its strengths are difficult to make very good use of. The magrider is a difficult beast to judge as i wouldn't say its unbalanced but i would say its strengths dont allow it to excel like its counterparts because of how the majority of battle take place and the fact that they basically require good terrain to make very good use of. The biggest problem with the magrider is how to rebalance it to make it preform to its counterparts level its harder to do since it functions so differently its hard to put a number on how much effectiveness you get out of unique maneuvering capabilities and because of this its hard to make it stronger without making it too strong.
  19. Flag

    If you want to get technical the Mag goes 64, or 67 at an angle.
  20. Silkensmooth

    Speed isnt the only way to be mobile. The magrider can move in any direction at any time. It can climb hills that the other tanks cannot. It can fly off cliffs and land unharmed.

    It also has the magburner which temporarily makes it by far the fastest tank.

    You can drive right over enemy tanks which is a form of mobility.

    And on top of all that it is by far the most fun and really the only fun tank to drive because of all the cool ways it is more mobile than the other tanks.