Get rid of base building.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Ibnuzen, May 19, 2017.

  1. BadCoding

    It's obvious: Unlocking base stuff is too expensive. Each single base thing costs 1000 certs or more. Many things are mandatory: skyshield, ai, shield, repair, other turrets, either spawn tube or sunderer garage. At least all of this is needed for a meaningful base.
    The regular game has, with exceptions, things to be unlocked that cost less but require upgrades to increase their efficency. Construction doesn't do that. There exists only the state of unlocked or not unlocked aka can or can't create and contribute to a player base.

    A reason I favor the continent-based approach of cert-, unlock- and upgrade handling if the game tries to get done with continents faster and the cert gap between high amount of certs and low amount of certs determines who wins via base construction opposed to anything else.
  2. Pat22

    Actually I built a base yesterday and it got hit four times by 48+ TR zergs.
    They might have killed it if they did something other than fire prowler shells at the front wall and stand inside the range of the orbital strike.
  3. Pat22

    If you're trying to build a base by yourself, then yes, most of these are necessary. However if you have a group building bases, only one or two in the group needs to have these.
    Repair modules and structure shield modules are the important ones that need to cover the whole base.
    AI and turrets can honestly be completely ignored. They deter small groups of people from attacking a base but are nothing but tank bait when a large force decides to attack. They can't be relied on to defend the base when you're not there, a single MBT can always find angles to take the turrets one at a time, and infantry always seem to find a way to sneak in and evade the infantry turrets.
    Only one spawn tube and skywall is really needed unless you spread out your base way too much.
  4. minibren

    I've been playing around with orbital strikes and where you can target them is way too restrictive. Maybe change the restriction from no build zones to no sunderer zones? Currently they are only useful for killing enemy bases due to this and most of the time before you are charged up they are already gone.
  5. LordKrelas

    They can be fired into Bio Labs, and their entire purpose seems to be to attack Player-made-bases.
    Or stationary targets.
    If they could be used to wipe out Lattice bases, no defense could last against one.
  6. Pat22


    Sure they could. You just go out and kill the orbital strike sometime in the 15-20 minutes before it is ready to fire.
    • Up x 1
  7. LordKrelas

    Well if they built the base properly; you couldn't without enough forces to be the attacker.

    It may be powerful, but it's also incredibly useless for most situations, unless empowered by being well defended.
    Where it becomes deadly, since it can cleave attackers to pieces, opposing OS's, etc.

    After all, a poorly built base, with an OS isn't what we are talking about.
    It's a proper OS base.
  8. Pat22


    They can't both be attacking your base with enough force that you can't push them back and also defending their PMB well enough that you can't destroy it. If they can, then you're either outnumbered or outplayed and in either case would lose the base with or without the OS.
    • Up x 1
  9. LordKrelas

    Consider that bases require less people to defend with, than to attack.
    For every defender, there must be multiple attackers.

    As well, the full OS countdown is if the target is at the range limit.
    If the base is held, without the opponent able to gain traction, allies have more time than a fixed # to reinforce or draw off the enemies.
    With the OS, any defense has a set limit of time.

    I don't mind the OS for targeting bases, given the literal ease of defense (though they are easily overkill, with a one-shot kill)
    But with the fact that a Bio lab already be completely emptied if one side doesn't attack PMBs which could be in hell holes, and need 90% of that bio lab's forces to even breach... it gets insane.

    As ignoring the whole, Base-building beats base-building unless using Prayer-when-defenders-are-there, or overwhelming numbers,
    The OS if able to be used in attacking or defending would just kill any well defended base, or large attacking force.
    Any beach head, would have to manage to engage a OS base, which could be rebuilt, assuming at max range, grants a half hour to siege it - Which prays you have the ability to do so, or that base now also prevents re-capture of the lost \ newly capture lattice base.

    Like you do recall how few defenders you need, compared to how many attackers are needed right for a PMB?
    A PMB deciding the fate of a Lattice base fight, with an OS.
    A PMB deciding the map's fate with a HIVE.
    What decides a PMB? A PMB or Zerg.
    What works against every single possible base due to crap design? Zerg.
  10. Pat22

    While we both agree that OS targetting inside no-deploy zones is not necessarily a bad thing, I do believe you are jumping to conclusions;
    OSing a base does not guarantee a capture. It momentarily removes players from an area. Both friendlies and enemies. While the defenders do have to wait on a respawn timer and make their way back, attackers also have to get clear of the blast zone or die, and then run back in.
    A similar effect can be achieved by simply killing an attacker's spawn points.

    OS can be used for defense by blowing up beachheads, but it cannot completely wipe the enemy from the hex and you can achieve similar results by once again destroying enemy spawns. Killing sunderers is actually easy for a small ( 3-6 ) player group to do if they put their minds to it, people just generally prefer shooting mans until one side shoots the other enough to push them back.

    While a a PMB which is defended by players who know they are under attack can be hard to breach, in general people do not stay to defend an empty base and a quick surprise attack targeting vital components of the base can easily overcome the defense. Scout the base to locate blind spots and modules, drop in via valk or gal and you can take out the spawns and the modules within a minute or two and then the base is as good as dead. Even hellhole bases can easily fall to a planned surprise attack.
    In fact, these aerial drop tactics are usually what kills bases. While zergs pound at them for extended amounts of time, drop squads will go around the map and take out several bases one after the other, or at least the one component in it they want dead ( usually a HIVE but an OSU would go down just the same )

    For all their 800 meter range, orbital strikes do have 400 meters of blind spot. The first 200m from the base where the OS cannot fire, and another 200m past its 800m maximum range, where Ion canons still have range onto the OS but the OS cannot retaliate.
    • Up x 1
  11. Moz

    They just need to limit cores, 4 per faction max or something.

    If you destroy an enemy core, you dont get an extra. You just deny the enemy a core for x amount of time.

    Construction has MASSES of potential IMO. They just need to tweak things here and there to allow it to fit into the game better.
    • Up x 3
  12. Demigan

    I haven't yet commented on the actual OP, so here goes:

    Construction has too much potential, not to mention effort put in, to simply scrap. Here's a list of changes that could make it work:

    • Remove HIVE's. Allow construction to be placed up to 30m of small bases and facilities.
      • This allows construction to be build as reinforcement of defenders prior to an attack or by the attackers to help support their attack. The no-construction zone was mainly created due to the effect on performance it would have, but on small facilities I expect it to work.
    • Make HIVE's work differently. Currently it's an incredibly passive playstyle that gives far too many rewards compared to the effort and skill required to pull off anything else in the game.
      • An example would be that players only earn the VP by transporting it to an (enemy) warpgate. This allows the non-PMB players to chime in and makes area control much more important. And even PMB players that couldn't build an active HIVE can support this by building PMB's that function as waystations where the VP carrier can be repaired and get it's support back up to strength.
    • Remove HIVE's, give PMB's other functions.
      • PMB's could function as logistical bases to transport players, vehicles and equipment across the map, reducing the need for redeploy and allowing more strategy by scouting and taking out important and central PMB's
      • PMB's could be build to create lattice-links, and allow players to circumvent chokepoints in the grid or surprise the enemy without the game falling back to ghost-cap hell.
    • Change the endgame.
      • If the continent doesn't just say "ping, enough points, everything locked" then the effect of HIVE's which do just that would be far less noticeable or unenjoyable. For example, VP's could be items that can be carried into enemy warpgates and capture parts of it once you've reached enough VP's. This makes generating more VP's afterwards important as more people can be trying to capture a warpgate at a time. It also offers one final huzzah and a satisfying ending to a large-scale attack, rather than attacks randomly stopping because one team suddenly got enough VP's. It also makes territory control more important once you've got enough VP's as territory closer to the enemy warpgate allows easier access and assaults. Lastly, the faction that gets to 20 VP's doesn't have to win. The other factions could also try to achieve enough VP's and then assault a warpgate.
    • Up x 2
  13. stalkish

    Here:
    [IMG]
    to wipe the brown off your nose.....
  14. PlanetBound

    Take it down.
    Get your own.
    Take the Cortium.
    If you can't directly attack then mine the area.
    Take the base where it sits and pound them relentlessly.
  15. Rydenan


    Oh, good one! You come up with that all by yourself?
  16. Strrog

    The first day construction came out i spent 20$ on it plus 10 k certs, after a month or 2 of helping building bases on casual schedule, i think i can cant the number of certs gained on my fingers.... this is such a horrid cert sink. On top of that it takes you like 1-2 hours to get good fort going with some random people helping out and then you get continent lock and all you work is lost.... you maybe got 10 certs while mining or randomly killing something thats it...

    Considering the amount of certs to even get into construction and the amount of time spent making a decent set up, there must be a better reward system for it, currently as a new player or a vet you have so many other better options to choose from for you cert investment. And i still do feel a bit disappointed with the cert and cash i put into it and got out so little in return.

    There are few location where you can maximize the construction system, for example across the bridge defense system works pretty well or some form of cave area, but most of the areas are just garbage for construction and you need massive team commitment to make it worth 1-2 hours of building and defense.

    Also continent locking time frame is usually pretty fast, the construction system does not pay enough dividends considering how fast the continents are switching due to locks.
  17. Pat22



    You... do realize that mining and delivering cortium is one of the easiest and fastest way to make certs, right? Guaranteed 100 certs per hour at least.
  18. PanzerGoddess

    Base building is fine but for NC/TR on Connery it is a lack of team effort, it is the single most lacking thing we have as factions. Ive had a small squad lay down a huge foundation for hives or OS, an actual well build/fortified base with the necessary buildings, hives with 50%+, sundys, etc to have reinforcements in no time. The biggest issue is either one of two things or both: having no population, low 20's, lack of tr support or anyone wanting to defend HIVES period or both combined.

    The other side is lack of effort from TR Leadership to go and grab hives or lend enough support to do so, unless its a zergfit and the entire outfit is on, nothing happens. The VS do it right, I don't care if its the Koreans, CN, CH they do a fine job of group efforts and defending their HIVES as well as taken them down.

    And another huge issue which I hope RadarX will actually take a look is how HIVES are put down, honestly we should have safe guards in place, having a power counter or something, reqs to put down a HIVE. Its easy to multibox or use ninja accounts to throw down a silo and then immediately throw down a HIVE and nothing else, Ive seen it, Ive taken screenshots, no offense to [Burt]....but they have members that love doing this time and time again, it ruins it for the whole faction and takes away the meta part of base building away.

    It takes five full ants and a small group to put down a formidable base for a HIVE.....not exactly that hard to do, it just lacks the effort. I ran HIVE groups for awhile but got demoralizing after awhile trying to defend HIVES from entire platoons and listening to Command not give one flying Higby about helping.
  19. Strrog

    Well that depends if you stay near base and rep mods around or harvest only, also if you have another miner in the area it slows down the mining, still not even close to 200-300 cert/hour when compared to active support/combat on battlefield. The cert rate assumes subscription.
  20. Pat22

    100/hour does not include a subscription and does leave time for base building. Should you focus entirely on mining, you can probably double it.