[Suggestion] ESF Pilot response review to anti air updates

I understand your frustration against AA vehicles but A2G is also OP at this point. Maybe they should buff rockets and missiles against armored vehicles but nerf A2G noseguns like Banshee and Airhammer against Infantry and Maxes. They just kill instantly and believe me, it's 10x more frustrating to randomly die with one shot of Airhammer. They are basically getting free k/d farm at the moment.

not sure if you meant me but you say its frustating to spawn in as a infantry which cost absolutly nothing and haveing everything in your arsenal which you can switch at any given moment, while the esf/tanker needs to spend 350/450 resourses to spawn a vehicle
with a limitet loadout? its not like you can drive with your tank to a terminal and switch your loadout like a max can do

Yes its more frustrating since you'll not only respawn but have to return to the area you were at, only to risk being killed by something you cannot realistically prevent. Any time you cross any distance outside a building an aircraft could attack you and there is NOTHING you can do to prevent it.
In the meantime the oh so poor ESF/tankers who cannot switch loadouts are able to escape almost any situation if they just pay attention (except tankers being attacked by aircraft again).
You may also forget that going back to a terminal isnt like you can teleport there and back to your previous position. Unless players are standing virtually at the spawnroom most players will never get a chance to swap loadouts.

Also you dont see how laughable it is to say that ESF, the most multi-purpose vehicle in the game with 2 powerful weapons, cannot switch weapons?

Tanks and standard E.S.F.s do not need to change because they can be built all purpose. Granted using a Basilisk is a joke, but if you use the upgraded line of turret now available to each faction, like T.R.s Gatling Basilisk and most notably N.C.s TRAWLER mad: The weapons that should be on ALL FACTIONS.... ) you will not have much issue with anything but a Liberator if your gunner can aim. You if they are rocking a Ranger, a Liberator and another tank using an A.V. Top Gun is ALL you have to fear, and you really do not have to fear the tank if you are running Vehicle Stealth.

I only agree with that when it comes to the Liberator, a platform that can be used completely solo has 3 ultra versatile weapons all of which can be used for any target class and can be made into Anti-everything, boasting high enough mobility to even reverse like an E.S.F. and only gets MORE effective the more people you add. Something needs to be done about it. Seagullnerd's crys: "Well use more people to bring it down... Combined arms..." Why the fell was that logic not applied to the A.N.T. Cloak? Having trouble finding a cloaked A.N.T.? COMBINED ARMS, Hypocrite... Again, no ground vehicle out there has 3 turrets with access to Powerful single hit A.A. that can be used on any target nor, rapid fire clip dumpers to make for an easy kill. Not even a Colossus has the Kind of versatility a Liberator has, because the Skylance cannon aim in a straight line, which is STUPID because the thing cannot move while using it costs POLY in order to craft! and all a Liberator has to do is fly low or LAND in order to dump its C.A.S. 30 forcing it to depend on its baby turrets. Bottom line, if it is solo, It gets crushed by a Solo Liberator. The only counter to them, was a Cloaking A.N.T. and that did not always work because of the sheer amount of firepower a Liberator possesses. It took nothing for a Shredder to shower the ground in bullets for them to find you and put a C.A.S. 30 on you, or simply sit still and follow sounds. Even if they could not see you, they simply would follow you until your Cloak died and since you could not turn off your engine without dropping cloak, well, if you were not near a base, even that was not a fair match for a Liberator.

idk im kinda done reading, other games got by far worst anti air and those ppl still cry less that this community (battlefield 1 flying and going 120-0, and the game only got 2 typs of anti air either vehicle or stationary anti air cannons which you can easily destroy)


go out touch some grass, im out

You have options to not play with vehicles in BF games.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Battlefield/comments/58logv/aa_gun_op_battlefield_1/
https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefiel...y_are_aa_guns_so_ridiculously_overpowered_in/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/190144-battlefield-1/74485519
https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_one/comments/59prjc/anyone_else_think_the_aa_are_overpowered/

?????????????

Also, idk what hole you hid in, but people have complained about Air (and Vehicles) since way back during BF2 launch.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/920407-battlefield-2/45079483

A simple google search shows complaints from every BF game, and you can pick out as many threads, if not more, than for planetside.

I still don't think the eggsilo has played against a skyguard very much. Granted with the novels on the forums I wonder if they play the game at all.

i've said it since launch, the problem with PS2's air game is a lack of clouds.

cover vs concealment.

you could even do static volumetric clouds (it wouldnt look as nice mind you) but it would be functional obscurement,
lock ons would be unaffected, but it would be much harder to acquire the initial target.

this cloud cover works both ways and makes it harder for ESFs to just farm infantry (makes spotting coordination with aircraft matter as well)

hell even a haze layer at 500 or 750 m would go a long way towards giving pilots some breathing room from massed AA and give the guys on the ground a little respite from being farmed.

You're just using lots more words to agree with me without admitting you're agreeing with me.

He did the wrong thing. That's why he was easy to hit, and that's why he's dead. It's evident to anyone who watched and there are only two fools saying otherwise. Their dishonesty is obvious. Comically.

You would buff aircraft up the whazoo with that. People would be farmed even harder.

On Hossin we already have trees that block view for both parties and its basically free kills for anyone able to avoid the trees. It gives aircraft a safe approach and a very short exposure time when they attack, making it virtually impossible for aircraft to be killed by G2A weapons unless they dont respond to it at all.

Adding clouds would just be Hossin trees but without the ability to accidentally collide with them. You give aircraft a free peek advantage from a cover that the ground units cannot ever see the other side off to flank the aircraft. Even as soft cover you can shoot through its still a massive boost to aircraft who are more likely able to leverage it while hiding behind the clouds.
"But you can spot them and track their dorito!" Might be your counter. Except that would make things EVEN WORSE. As now aircraft can see spotted targets through the clouds and fire things like rocketpods through them, while anyone trying to spot them has to try and spot the entire straight trajectory of your shots beyond the cloud. Worse is that even if they do spot you the ground units dont know the distance to the target, so leading shots would be virtually impossible through clouds.

Then there is the idea that aircraft need "breathing room" at all. You can already leverage existing cover to approach fights with lots of AA and participate in that fight. You can also avoid fights by using height. At 600m above the ground you barely even need clouds to stay alive from massed flak, so any cloud cover would just protect things like Liberators and Galaxies that bomb/drop infantry from heights.

95% of the map is already a relatively safe space for aircraft. G2A is only really present at ongoing fights (and not even guaranteed due to how bad it is and how unfun it is to use), the range of G2A is grossly exaggerated as any effective range is one hex range at maximum, meaning you can safely fly between almost every ongoing fight and you have plenty of space to fight other aircraft without ever being interrupted by ground forces.


Screw clouds, unless you give ground forces actual skillful G2A weapons that can actually MURDER THE HELL out of aircraft.

only solution -- ice clouds!

As someone that *really* tries to deal with air when I see it...I feel a lot of the G2A struggle. If air isn't nearly right on top of you in a skyguard they can often escape due to the combination of bullet velocity and the spread.

Even doing things like sitting in a lockdown max with air flying all around, they are more likely to just duck and leave unless they are EXTREMELY close overall. And as was said before, pulling AA puts you in a position that you need support from others...while the same is not true for most other pulls.

However pulling a skyguard means you're at the mercy of any other tank or harasser or sunderer or ant really that decides to go shooting at you because your damage vs them is so much lower...and you're not even truly going to consistently net kills. You'll just shoo the air away. And like someone said...air often just clears away once theres a moderate amount of AA. Which now you can't even contribute in any other manner because you pulled AA. If you put it away and air returns, well you're boned.

Similarly the TTK for AA is *incredibly* high compared to so many things. Valks and Gals especially even under fire from a skyguard can often get to their targets and do their drops. So even your *dedicated AA* tank that literally is free kills for any other tank...can't even effectively deter these air vehicles from dropping their cargo while hitting most of their shots no less! (that is I guess unless they just fly perfectly straight in midair for you and if the galaxies just decide to give you a 1-2 clip handicap.)

I don't see any problem with tweaking the weapons to require more skill (lower flak burst range, but give more bullet velocity to actually HIT while tightening cone of fire) or making some means of actually threatening air available (like even if skyguard was the only thing that KEPT the wide flak, but you boosted bullet velocity but it still remains unable to really threaten other armor) it would be fine.

The fact the NC masthead is considered so good because it gives a more generic option for infantry to also threaten air more consistently is incredibly telling as well.

You know AA is broken when AV weapons on MBTs are often more effective in an AA role and have faster TTKs than dedicated AA loadouts.

best AA in the game 120mm Anti-Plane rounds out of a lockdown flak-Prowler.

that said, using the striker (regarded as the best infantry AA weapon* with LA-80 being a close contender) is so painful aswell. long reloads and relatively slow ROF make getting that 2nd mag out to kill an ESF rare and reliant on player stupidity rather than clever positioning or outright determination.

*decimator is fun too, but too difficult to use unless the target is a ban****ter.

Though I would sooner say because of how quick two strikers can kill an ESF I personally don't think it needs much of a buff. HAs are plentiful and if theres 2-3 of them with strikers it at least projects a small area of denial for air. Decent kill potential with it so I see it as fine. I know I'd sooner see on the infantry have Flak armor buffed maybe to reduce damage from all air vehicle weapons a bit more. Like an extra 10-20% might help survive slightly longer, forcing a bit higher TTK on A2G would ideally flow downstream into making them have to linger longer for the kill and provide more value for AA to maybe pick the kill up, while not making them 'invulnerable' to the A2G also.

I mean even when HESHing it isn't one shot kill I don't think if the infantry has Flak armor on, and that puts the TTK for a lightning (which is similarly nanite costed to an esf for example) in the what...near 4 second range. Tweaking flak just right resistance wise to give infantry a roughly say 2 second or so average TTK against A2G would be more reasonable and make it a conscious choice by the infantry to go "The sky is angry today...gonna wear my flak." and give up the other options. It would also make striker or other G2A threats more viable since then they might be able to more greatly damage or kill the offending ESF too.

Random thoughts and numbers but hey, throwing around some ideas to consider isnt bad (though that still doesn't fix the fact dedicated AA is still not really incentivized or beneficial to pull.

We should all remember that it is a game, and in the scheme of all things doesn't really matter. That being said; We would all like to feel that we have an upper hand in any given situation on the battlefield, and if you're honest with yourself; you'll realize that most frustration comes from a perception that the opposite is occurring. The game, in its current state, is almost unplayable and only gets worse every time they throw something new into the mix. To this day they still can't fix the base clocks to show accurate base status. Really? I have a question for all of you. How many times has a tank, in real life, shot down a jet or a helicopter with the main gun? Yet it is a daily occurrence in Planetside. It just happens, its part of the uniqueness of the game. Why do some of us expect the game to equate to the real world? It won't and it shouldn't. The main factor of any engagement, i have found, is the skill level of those participating. Sometimes i can hang around a base giving support to my guys unimpeded by any real effort to shoot me down or make me leave. Other times the guys on the ground know what they're doing and i become basically useless and have to either leave or die. Skill is what sets everything apart in this game. Exactly as it should be.

Actually use G2A weapons for once and come back here.

Geez you are literally ignoring the entire thread, like how aircraft can escape almost any G2A without ever needing more skill than "aim nose at horizon and fly straight" while ground units can be Godlike in skill and still have no option to escape an aircraft. And all the while G2A requires multiple sources to actually finish off aircraft rather than move aircraft to another fight.
Also fighting in an aircraft is a whole lot more fun than G2A. There should not be more reason to enjoy aircraft over the ground counters to aircraft.

I have ignored nothing, judged nothing, except the game and my perceptions. I have neither supported nor dissuaded use of air. I have made no claims of unfairness or unbalance. However, making the claim that all an ESF has to do is point and shoot for the horizon, demonstrates a serious "lack of awareness or knowledge" of things on your part. Furthermore, the players that i referred to as being able to cause me trouble wouldn't place themselves in that situation....its one of the reasons they are good.

So you are a troll?

The only way to "not place yourself in that situation" is to never use infantry outside and never use vehicles. In other words you can never leave Biolabs.
If you sneak up on a hovering aircraft with the Skyguard (or any dedicated G2A for that matter) and open up at any range you like that aircraft can escape you by simply aiming at the horizon and flying away. This is a fact that I have seen all too many times actually using G2A AND when I've been an aircraft myself.

In fact doing A2G is exceedingly easy once you mastered basic flight, people just barely need to learn it because G2A is so weak and you can usually find a fight where no one has any G2A. Why bother learning to use cover to approach a fight when you can just pick one without it eh? People havent even learned basic things like purposefully striking the enemy frontline vehicles that are under attack or repairing.

Otto Carius' gunner shot down a Russian aircraft with the 88 on his Tiger, which was noteworthy enough that it made it into his autobiography. This isn't really a fair comparison though, considering real life isn't exactly rife with examples of combined arms warfare occurring daily between factions with essentially infinite resources.