[Suggestion] ESF Pilot response review to anti air updates

Pay Demi no mind. You literally just showed the hardest angle to nail a plain at and if you let him he will have you arguing 30 other points he is wrong about as well.

No Demi.... The guy did not dive out. This is how I know you have not regularly shot down anything with A.A. at a truly competitive range and explains GREATLY why you believe A.A. "Tickles aircraft at those ranges." When you kill planes at longer ranges it does not always show the name of the pilot you kill. There have even been times where the persons name will leave the aircraft and it will just be called what it is: Liberator, Mosquito, Reaver, Scythe, or Easy To Kill Plate.... The only way you will know you got the kill is to check the Session Stats page. (This bug is out of control on Genudine, as it rarely displays the names of the people I run over in my A.N.T. Simply the kill, what I kill, what level of kill and what type of kill.) Even if that were not the case, what does the pilot jumping out have to do with anything. Forcing a pilot out of their plane is still victory, even if they do survive the fall, it forced them to redeploy, and if you drop them fast enough, multiple times, they will not be able to render Air Support.... The entire purpose of your killing them to begin with....

P.S. The "Video" as you called it, cuts off the way it does, because it is not a video, it is a G.I.F.

How that person was flying had little to do with the Dervish not being hit. It would have helped a little for newbies, but beyond that it simply made him feel better as his Gunner landed those lovely distance shots on that parked Sun. At that range, thanks to the person shooting at him, he could have simply flown straight and that A.A. would not have touched him, as the A.A. was only able to hit him when he doubled back though it, even so notice the Dervish was smoking. This leads me to believe, any closer and that A.A. would shred it because the A.A. gunner is of above average skill. The pilot simply found the "Sweet Spot."

Indeed, we are clearly meant to only ever shoot unaware targets that do not react. If the enemy is aware of us we MUST NOT do anything about them, and if they react upon being shot we need to abort this course of action posthaste.
That'd be an interesting game for sure. Guess we'll call it "who falls asleep first loses".

You were on FIRE, right up until you made this comment. It is far easier to hit a ground target from the air because it is much safer, and this is especially true with the existence of Hornets and Rocket pods. As you pointed out, the difficulty to learn how to precision fire is high and that is the reason most users miss with it. Anticipation takes a VERY long time to learn on your own unless you cheap out and use youtube and know what to look for.

I started this game off as a Pilot, and my P.P.C. was the first thing I got my purple Metal in. A.A. was MONSTROUS back then and even still I think my best streak was well into the 60's. I could not use a Ranger or a Skyguard to save my life and for the longest time, I bought into the bull of them being nothing but deterrents.

One day it all just clicked with the Ranger, and it has been my Best friend under Christ and right next to my Angels, lover and A.N.T. Amazingly once I learned how to kill with it, it became a breeze to kill with just about anything else. Granted, they are no match against a Liberator with a Dalton, regardless of your skill but everything else can get wrecked if and ONLY IF you have taken a BUTT LOAD of time learning the weapon.

Demi is not that good at A.A. to begin with, but by my account, it took me much longer to get good with Flak than it did to learn how to fly and hit ground targets COMBINED, ESPECIALLY using 6-8X scopes.

A dumpster fire?

For those who hadnt noticed we have two characters here. The first one says "just git gud and you will score kills with G2A, but dont expect to get kills with a low-skill G2A weapon because thats stupid".
Then we have the second character that says "an ESF flying straight down without speed or direction changes is one of the toughest angles to shoot and oh everyone else is bad at G2A". Even though applauding shooting an ESF like that is like applauding someone for headshotting an AFK dude facing the wall as if its difficult and then saying someone is bad because they used bodyshots and an inaccurate weapon to kill a strafe vibrating Heavy.

And that barely scratches the surface of what these characters do.

Sure, if you are the Dumpster, yes, he set fire to you.

Demi, it is not his fault that you do not know how to fly, nor know the basics when it comes to evasion. Yet again you prove to everyone you do not use Flak..... Top %ile my left rear wheel..... Any time you are under fire, good pilots dive, especially if flak is coming at a distance. 9 times out of 10 you will survive it because the environment will obstruct their line of sight, on top of this even decent people can botch a straight dive because you can confuse people by adjusting your speed, causing them to under and over shoot you. Wagging around calling yourself making for a difficult target, slows your airspeed if you are going to move during a Flak evasion dive, it is best to depend on your Yaw.

A target you can see is a target you can kill. When they hit the deck, you can no longer see them, and therefore can no longer do what?

Diving even works for the DERVISH if you can get your nose down before you get killed, soooooooo...... He is absolutely right, a heavy helping of Get Good, is what is needed.

Your L2P for air is people should dive for cover even if they are at high altitude. And they should do so in a straight line? Or... if they want to evade more to use yaw during the dive?

If that's such good advice then why did he get shot down doing it?

it looked pretty stupid to me

Because for one he did not know where the Flak was truly coming from, otherwise he would have taken refuge behind the mountain peak seen at 8.44 seconds. 2, he had already sustained a ton of damage. (Had he have known it would have been a simple matter to intersect the mountain peak and then fly strait down, I would even place money on the fact that he could have flown straight to the intersect position without even dodging, THEN flew straight down, without even Yawing and would have had plenty enough plane left to heal and continue his assault. Using the Peak as a ruler; if the peak were in front of him he would have taken less than 25% of what he did. Even at high altitude, if you are at a decent distance (Meaning something can fall between you and that turret), and dive as soon as you get hit by something, the only thing that will ever kill you is another fighter if you are sitting on a fresh bar of health. No Fresh E.S.F. falls that quickly, at that distance, with so few shots needed. Finally 3, I saw no Yawing.

My S.O.P. is to identify which direction it is coming from by means of the streaks and direction of the explosions, dive at an angle nearly straight down during Afterburn, while panning for the tallest structure around, toggling my Yaw, Lift and Decent to shield as much of my movement as possible, throwing off their shot while maintaining every last ounce of speed my craft can provide towards that cover.

Constant banking has its uses, and is good for various situations, however Flak is not one of them if the person on A.A. has the gift. There are actually several reasons it is a terrible idea unless you are in a panic and can think of nothing else to do when dealing with Flak from an unknown position, with no cover in sight..... Jitterbugging only works if you are infantry and doing so while wasting Afterburn is a GREAT way to get yourself killed. I usually get the ones that wag around going for that cover because they spend about an extra second going for it.

Didn't ask what you do. Don't need an L2P, thanks.

From your quote of me...
I'm asking:
If that's such good advice then why did he get shot down doing it?
And declaring:
it looked pretty stupid to me

And if you're now saying he got shot down because basically he did it wrong then:
Why don't you agree it looked pretty stupid?

Why did you defend what he did to begin with just a moment ago here..

And "best to depend on your Yaw" has turned into...

So your story isn't so much being expanded upon as it's outright changing.

Know what I think? You just want argue the opposite of what Demi and I are saying no matter what we say.

Some guy comes along gives a video of him shooting down a guy flying in a straight line and says "oh that's how you do it boys". then everyone LOLs because it's an easy shot and the guy is flying in a straight line.

That should have been the end of it. Dumb point made. Dumb point called out.

Doesn't matter which side of the larger argument you're on. Except to you... You gotta keep on defending that so now it's become "Any time you are under fire, good pilots dive," ...and to do it in a straight line and use yaw to not lose airspeed.

To which there is a fresh round of LOL.

And now you're back arguing with that which makes you almost argue with your original points that G2A is somehow fine.

Tell you what... you win.
G2A is overpower or underpowered, whichever one you are arguing.
And the idiot flying in a straight line that got shot down was a genius that's why he didn't get shot down.
And the guy who shot him down is also a genius because he says it was a hard shot and also it wasn't a hard shot cuz G2A is easy.

or whatever.

I started to verbally nuke you, but after reading what you just typed, I just pity you. You Genudine-ly do not understand, do you? I do thank you for acknowledging the fact that I was going to win, I will even allow you the grace to save face by coating that fact in sarcasm.

Apparently you do need a L2P AND a Mentor, otherwise you would not have asked. While there is really no stupid question, as far as basics go, that was just about as entry as they come. I gave you a sensible reason and now you look like bad for saying something all smart pilots do looks stupid... TO YOU. That right there should be a red flag. Flying a plane backwards probably seems stupid to you as well, after all; the weapons stick out the FRONT! HAHAHAHA! But because you cannot seem to put 2 and 2 together, I will spell it out for you... TRY to pay attention....

H,e. D,i,d. T,h,e. R,i,g,h,t. T,h,i,n,g. H,e. J,u,s,t. D,i,d. I,t. T,o,o. L,a,t,e. A.N.D. I,n. T,h,e. W,r,o,n,g. P,l,a,c,e.

So no, I do not know what YOU think, or much care, because smart things look stupid to you. Hahaha! You do not think before you type, because if you did, you would have simply smiled, nodded and pretended.... Even though you did not understand a lick of what I typed. "Better to remain silent and be thought wise, than to open your mouth and--" Well, the rest is repeated history.

I mean I just checked my footage.... I have over 590, 15 minute videos saved, I would say 300+ is me messing about in my A.A. A.N.T. the pilots who dive in various amazing ways, whether a side slingshot in a Liberator, or maximum velocity nose dive, just to pull up a inches from the ground, all have one thing in common.... They survive to get dropped another run. But yes, GO by the 1 you saw that did not. Hahaha!

As far as my stance on A.A. goes, it has not changed. (Which is: A.A. is fine as is, except for where the Liberator is concerned.) There is no true challenge for it save for the Colossus which costs Mats. The A.N.T. needs to have much stronger A.A. because of what it is designed for, now that the Cloak is gone. While the A.N.T. HAD its Cloak, A.A. was ALMOST perfectly balanced, because the Liberator had a direct challenge. A Skyguard was no match of one even if it spotted the Liberator first, because it is basically a Ranger with 4 barrels with double the rate of fire, but half the damage, however one could not just Swoop in and take out an A.N.T. unless just was not paying any KIND of attention and even if you did, unless it was completely isolated which I often was it was not going to be able to finish the job with that Dalton, making an enemy for the rest of its life.

Liberators had to sit up there and think a second attention and weigh its options. There was no swift flyby to scan the area for armor, and feel for A.A. then a quick slingshot around the mountain for an easy kill with no consequences. An A.N.T. could pop up at any given time and add to the A.A. you were taking; or weaken you bad enough that you would not survive past that kill, thanks an enemy E.S.F. and BOOM! You just became the prey. Even if a player was not skilled at using a Ranger, they could at least slow a Liberators rampage down.

You just failed to comprehend my point and got mixed up, because you only half read.

I dont know how anyone can take you seriously.

You do have this thing called a "damage indicator", it kinda gives you a slight direction for the flak?

Also nothing you said makes sense. If you are flying relatively low it makes sense to try and reach cover near the ground, but otherwise why bother? In the Gif he's high, 500+m? And about 200 to 300m away horizontally? So even if all he did was fly in a straight line at his altitude he would have been a harder target the entire way and have less chance of being hit due to the distance. It doesnt matter where the Skyguard was, diving down was the worst option as it would always have decreased the distance and without any course changes it also makes you one of the easiest targets to hit.

Some math: at 200km/h (he's going faster than that as he's diving) that ESF is at minimum at 450m altitude, halfway out of the range of any G2A. Add pythagoras for the horizontal distance and he's at minimum 492m away from the flak. Flying straight in any direction would have kept him away at least 450m while diving down puts him within the 200 to 300m range, so there is quite literally no reason to dive down. He's better off climbing straight up and then moving in any direction.

Again: it doesnt matter what the pilot does, at his height it will ALWAYS be worse to dive down compared to up or in any direction.

so he didn't do the right thing

Man, you really have trouble getting to the point.

Careful Demi, I am getting dangerously close to making a video of hard proof illustrating just how wrong you are, and happily putting you in a negative light... AGAIN. Somebody has to help the community..... For the moment, I am simply going to point that your math off, because you are assuming people cannot hit a slow target at that height and range and EVERYONE can calculate the trajectory of a falling craft....

He was likely thinking what all other intermediates and pro pilots having a terrible day usually do: "I can ignore that for a sec while I catch my barrings...." Until... "OH NO I CANNOT!!!" partly because of the nonsense you just preached. If they can see you, somebody out there can likely hit you. The only way to circumvent this is to not be seen. The best way to not be seen is dive. They wait too long to act on the nagging feeling that they might be dealing with someone who knows how to aim a Flak turret and this is what SOMETIMES leads to an ineffective dive; like what you saw here. Many many, MANY E.S.F. test your theory in the skylines over me, only to at the end realize diving was their best bet. As far as damage indicators go, when they DO DECIDE TO WORK they only work properly if your target is in front of you. Hit indicators also fail in case you did not know. My next video will show proof of that. From behind it simply looks like it is coming from the side, low or high. The only way to figure out where it is truly coming from is to either begin flying backwards or Bathe a second. I used to Bathe while rising or lowering until I see streaks and you know the rest; because heavy reversing uses Afterburn unless you are in a Reaver and trust and believe, you NEED that in case you encounter another E.S.F. Sadly Bathing does not really work in a Dervish, so I swap to the turret revolve.

Diving is about the ONLY sure bet when it comes to survival while flying; the main issue most who do not know this have is; negotiating how much health they will need to reach the cover they should have chosen before hand. Sure they will take a few rounds getting there, but it will eventually stop the damage all together so who cares? If you are sitting on F.S. which that fighter CLEARLY was not, you will survive dealing with only 1 turret ALMOST every time. That is why sooooo many people are crying that E.S.F. are so O.P.

Climbing IS indeed an option at that height, but it is far from the best option, For one thing at that height, there is the barrier that stops you but not your momentum. Collide with it fast enough and you will be stuck there for a good 5 seconds or more until the momentum disperses. If you are not moving, I do not care how far you are away, a Skyguard and Ranger will land their hits... Not to mention you are fighting gravity so you are not going to accelerate as fast and Dead-falling can actually increase your airspeed beyond what any craft is capable of.

Another reason you do not stay up there when you start feeling Flak is the fact that you have now been spotted, if not ACTUALLY, then the old fashion way. The Skyguard, Ranger and Bursters are LOUD, and leave a decent light trail I wish they did not.... But they do, so the longer you lollygag up there the more enemies see you and join in on the attack. Other A.A. turrets join in on the chorus and nothing brings enemy E.S.F.'s to the party faster than fireworks and an idiot dancing about high trying to evade Flak, before you know it, you are catching it from all angles. Hit the sky line barrier then, see what happens to you.

Get off the ground being a grunt and hop in the air so this crap will click to you a bit better. I mean technically all you need to do is think, but experience is a novel teacher.

No, he did the right thing, he just did it too late and in the wrong place. Geez, can you not SPELL....? I mean I get this is Greek to you but seriously guy. Too much Jibbajabba, not enough thought.

But here, lets give an example of doing the right thing but too late. Lets say you know C.P.R. You hit a child with your car; they did not go under your wheels but are now lying in the street face up; the kid is not breathing nor is their heart beating. A crowd has already formed. You get out of the car check them, and then call 911. While on the phone you then begin to administer C.P.R.

Well my friend you did the right thing technically, just too late, more than likely because you did it in the wrong order. You will not be charged because you did everything right in the eyes of the law, however the child may have lived if you started C.P.R. immediately and yelled for one of the onlookers to call 911 for you. As opposed to hitting the child, driving away screaming and lamenting what you did, which would have been most DEFINITELY the WRONG thing, because for that you go to prison for Manslaughter.

In the jets case, standing still would have been the wrong thing to do. Get it? Probably not... But I tried....

Think we're off topic...

But for clarification -- Good Samaritan laws protect people from the exact situation.
Further reading:
Good Samaritan Laws - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

This was on topic, it was an example of doing the right thing, at the wrong time. He either did not get it, or was being a jerk and pretending not to. In my example, calling 911 first and then giving C.P.R. are the right things to do, just in the wrong order. Just as the guy in the plane Dove first without looking for cover first.

Going into law would be, of which I am only going to say this, those laws are not set in stone and do not save everybody. The laws vary so much even between states, it is more like a rubber band than a set of laws. An example is: Someone was injured and an onlooker tried to render aid, they turned the person over not knowing they had a broken neck. This action severed their nerves to their spine and left them paralyzed. They sued the person for that. " I believe what happened in the move: "The Incredibles" where Bob saved the guy from his suicide attempt but wound up hurting his neck and was then sued was a play off of that.

(A public service notice for everyone in the case of a fall or accident that may have damaged their back in some way, you do NOT move them unless they okay it OR their life is in FURTHER danger of being left where they are. If you are going to render help, understand... It may come with risks, and the person may not be grateful if something goes wrong, which is why many just stand there with their phones out like idiots....)


Thanks for the reading though.

Yeah, I wouldn't go off of an animated film as an example to prove your point. Just read the article I posted, or just to a generic search with your popular search engine.

For MOST people, even including off duty providers (slight stipulation with licensing), Good Samaritans are protected.

eggsillyant doesn't fly.
aa is good although the skyguard is still op because the ttk for the lib is so close.

if you g2a and find lock-ons you just break lock and go away. if you g2a skyguard you lose all your health and die finding cover because flak explodes and everyone fires at range.

i don't mind dying to a sunderer with 3 people in it. A skyguard is not 3 people.

sorry, combined arms lul. get more mans to shoot the plane i guess!

those numbers must be from VR Training room right? because nothing dies so fast on the actual map

Yup, I've stood right next to air vehicles in VR to shoot them, and flew right in front of infantry and shoot them with A2G respectively.

Of course, in a real scenario, with actual dodging mid air and not hovering ignoring dmg, with fire suppression, vehicle stealth making lock-ons take forever, with aircraft using a lot more cover, it's much harder to kill an aware pilot with G2A.

A2G TTK is more or less the same in a practical scenario unless pilots miss really bad. Flak/Ordnance armor doesn't help too much sadly.

thats kinda the problem the VR room is the perfect version of the game, idk about other pilots it takes me to be in the max face and unload my entire AH clip that hes perhaps finished, alot of times thats not even enough plus you are vulnerable when you hover at the gound to litterly everyone, whilel i was auraxing my banshee my engagement range was like 40-80ish meters i would guess, and alot of times infantry ate the entire clip of 50 bashee shots and still ran