Current Thoughts on the New ES SMGs?

About 1 in 15 or 20 people use it on Cobalt, this is in line with the Jackal and the Gladius. Considering it's a new gun with amazing aesthetics, this is way less than what I expected. Perhaps it's better on consoles due to the hitbox hax?

I disagree, I'm having so much blast with it as an Infiltrator.

Its main perk, as I noticed, is that even if you are noticed by your opponents, they usually have no idea you are already charging the weapon, and time their movements expecting the fight to start just as any other fight: you are not shooting them yet, so they might have a few tenth seconds to set up into an effective firing position.

What they don't know, however, is that the fight will begin with a huge damage burst from your side. This is somewhat situational, of course, and even if you don't kill, you can quickly just switch to a full 21-mag SMG to finish them off. The shared reload is also great, you reload once, and both firing modes are reloaded.

The secondary perk is that getting someone from behind is essentially a guaranteed kill, which might not be the case with the standard mode only (or a missed knife due to awkward movements).

Also, the effective range on the burst mode is much greater than what you might expect at first.

Meant to say "big damage", was tired.

More so than it being just mathematically better than the others, it's the fact that it walks all over faction-traits and seems to have the best aspects of everything.

Why has it got TR mag size and a barely longer reload? Why has it got 2nd place velocity and no-drop instead of worst velocity and no-drop? Why does it have the highest RoF of (I think) any 167 weapon and then ramp up even further?

It doesn't follow the rules or guidelines for any other equipment. Historically anything that starts to step on toes has to pay out the *** in performance for it. Meanwhile the NC and TR SMGs are just bland city. The TR one isn't even a TR gun, it has no faction aspect or flavor whatsoever. The VS took it and added it to their pile instead.

When? Where?
Ive seen nothing of the sort.
Scratch that, i just read the post below yours lol.

NC phoenix was cried about the same day, nerfed 1 day later.
Just saying, some things are blatantly OP to be cried about in the first day.

And no i dont mean the new SMGs, never even noticed them yesterday when i played.

Overall I think the Canis is an absolute beast and worthy of a nerf...If not several.

After several hours of using it here's my first impression.

The 167 damage model and good rof absolutely dominate inside of 20m. The high starter damage and manageable cof/recoil (when not using the crazy attachments) along with .75 ADS and it's still great out to midrange. The gun only really starts to falter at mid to long range engagements but it's still better than most other smg's at this range.

A very quick short reload means you have little down time between reloads. The 40 round magazine gives you bullets to spare for single engagements and one of the highest damage potentials per magazine of any non LMG in the game.

Which brings me to unstable ammunition. It really just feels like a gimmick to me. I didn't notice much if any change at all to hits vs misses but then I'm a very experienced PS2 player and my accuracy and trigger discipline is good. The COF bloom wasn't really noticeable ADS but shooting from the hip I hated it immediately. Laser sight helps but unless you can't aim once again I feel the weapon is just better without unstable ammunition.

The supressor is way to restrictive for anything outside of very close range solo infiltration. Situations that a blip on the map could be the death of you. I took it off most of the time.

The faster long reload attachment...I never bothered unlocking. The Canis has the highest damage potential per magazine of any non LMG/Shotgun in the VS arsenal. If you can't get the job done in less than 40 rounds; shaving some time off the long reload probably won't help you either. Though I can see the potential of using it with unstable ammunition and just spamming non stop it's not really a playstyle I favor.

Inevitably I ended up just using the fwd grip. The attachments were interesting but added little to the potential of the weapon which is massive on it's own.

TL;DR.

Best SMG in the VS arsenal, perhaps the best gun in the game. Too good in too many situations with long range being it's only real limiting factor.

It could imply that NC has looted the MG-S1 Jackal SMG from the TR and possibly reverse engineered the tech/mechanisms or that the MGR-S1 is an extensive modification of the MG-S1. The "R" in MGR-S1 could stand for "Repurposed" or "Re-created" or "Reworked".
How's a supposedly modified version of a weapon lacking in certain features like the Trident Burst mechanism is beyond me, though.

As for the SMGs themselves, Gladius is meh and would be good at range if not for the awful damage drop-off but currently it's only a decent suppressed CQC SMG, Jackal is nice with very low recoil and is probably going to be exclusively used with the foregrip, and the Vanu one is the best in CQC and the most forgiving on top of decent accuracy, perhaps nerf-worthy but some of it's attachments make the weapon worse.

See my reply to Halkesh on the previous page. Makes no sense!

Just lazy.

Here is my take on the SMGs:

The Canis is clearly the winner, but is it a feature of the Canis or not rather of UNSTABLE AMMO. That's the "hitbox enlarger" thing. Basically, more of your shots hit, even if your aim is quite off!

The Jackal doesn't offer much, and it's special ability must be activated, then charged up (quickly) and THEN you must hit something at the right moment, then it reloads - in practice, just shoot and stab with your knife instead of going through this ordeal...

The Gladius is looking good, but it's 6789 numbers on the ADS sight are somehow distracting me, doesn't look good anymore.
The 200 damage model and the slow rof... it's weird. SMG?
Forgot what its special was.

IMO what is talked about atm is not the Canis, it's Unstable Ammunition. I sprayed after running enemies and hit and often killed them despite me not believing for a second to even scrape them.

I like using the Sirius and shooting TR with it. Many really believe every Vanu SMG is a Canis by now!

learn to pre charge it when approaching and turning corners, it lets you melt people before they can even react
plus you dont even need to bother going for headshots since you're pumping out 1,5k damage
i'll have to record some clips tonight, last night i enjoyed melting heavies in face to face encounters
because they're dead before they can react XD

It starts at 500RPM and ramps up to 667RPM. So in partical terms it fits with VS and their middle of the road faction trait. The special ammo is a bad idea through and through.

EDIT: Apparently you need to fire 24 rounds to reach the full ROF... lol.

It's not the gun, it's the unstable ammo.

NC SMG - I find it to be the best out of the bunch with excellent accuracy, a short range bull

TR SMG - I find to be the worst out of the bunch, its projectile drop off is that of a arrow, its curve through the air is like that of a soft ball, its RoF needs to be increased and it should start with a 40 rd magazine with the option to add a extra 10 rd to the magazine.

VS SMG - is the most unique, but either unstable ammo needs to be removed or with it equipped it only has a 25 rd magazine

For some strange reason, I've read a few comments here and there claiming the Gladius has good accuracy (such as the post directly above this one). Otherwise I seem to be the only person whom has really mentioned the accuracy at all.

Just as an FYI, the Gladius is the most inaccurate automatic primary weapon in the game. The only automatic infantry weapon with lower ADS accuracy is the T4 AMP. (Significantly lower bloom, but much higher starting CoF).

Source: http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons

I don't have a wiki source I read to form my opinion, my opinion comes from hands on use after getting a couple hundred kills with each weapon, I find the new NC SMG to be the most accurate of the new smgs, as I already said he in my previous post.

You know you could try it out for yourself and form your own opinion instead of going off what you read on a wiki... Just say'n

And when I say try it out, I don't mean the VR

Well I'm afraid your opinion is objectively wrong.

Opinions cannot be formed around empirical data. It is no more of an opinion to say the Gladius' starting CoF is 0.35 than it would be to say it has a fire rate of 522 rounds per minute.

Perception is everything, except when it comes to math & science.

I played most of the day today. I got killed more by my unstable connection than by unstable ammo. I had planned to buy the Jackal, but after a little more use in the VR I've decided to stick with my Armistice. Also, I rarely use smgs anyway.

I am really hopeing new carbines and lmgs are on their way. I saw a piece of Dokus work on Reddit that was called the Trident, and it looked cool. Beta mag and stuff.

Gun is fine as it's for CQC as it's velocity and range suck, and it's rounds clip objects/cover. It's situationally better than others.

Where it shines is against lag-wizards and their "ADAD" or "ADADCC" patterns when there's no cover in the way. It's a good equalizer to that for sure, and much needed until DBG fixes the latency/lag switch/lag wizardry and levels the playing field with all those that manipulate hitboxes and aimbots.

Works for the first week. Then people will get used to it and if you try to spin up before running around the corner you will get shot in the face when you show up. Afterall you basicly give your opponent a wallhack cause you tell them "I'm here and I'm comming in 3, 2,1...". People gonna have to adapt. It may not be anymore like "It's just a VS...if we go face to face and I don't miss then I will win.". VS always had to deal with that situation and the others will get used to it too...