Current Thoughts on the New ES SMGs?

I'm curious as to how everyone else is receiving these new SMGs. This thread is just about first impressions & opinions, not about balance or anything unrelated.





First of all, super creative naming here. MG-S1 & MGR-S1? Really?

MGR-S1 Gladius

It's okay enough. Boring, unoriginal, uninspired damage model. I believe this is 200DMG/~500RPM automatic primary number 7 for the NC. Looks and sounds nice though.

Stats wise, it's not actually very good unless used in CQC to short range, but has the short-range pitfalls of a long range weapon: Low RoF, small(er)magazine size, long reload, bad hipfire. Trying to use it for mid to long range is a bad idea, as it has terrible accuracy. Starting CoF of 0.35 regardless of standing, crouching, moving, or not, and has a bloom of 0.07 per shot. This is the least accurate of the three SMGs in every single measurable way.

The special ammo type which increases the velocity but reduces magazine size by 4 is not useful at all unless the suppresser is equipped. The Gladius is bad at range regardless of the standard or increased projectile velocity. It helps counteract the velocity penalty of the suppresser though, which I would argue is mandatory if a player wishes to use one.

Recoil is kinda okay. Definitely need a forward grip outside of short range though.

Final verdict: I'm unimpressed.

MG-S1 Jackal

Pretty much just a slightly better Cyclone. Again, not super original weapon design in this regard. I like the way it looks though, and it sounds decent too.

Stats wise, pretty typical. Not really a lot to say about it, good all-rounder, mid range at best.

The Jackal's special attachment is interesting. I could see some situations in which it would be useful, but I personally don't think I would ever use it due to the 9-round magazine reduction. Suppresser hurts this one a bit more than the other two.

Very smooth, easy recoil makes this one pretty point & click out to mid range.

Final verdict: TR gets a Cyclone, congrats to them. I never thought it was OP and I honestly don't think I'll feel any different. A bit bland, but a decent enough gun.

VE-S Canis

Potent damage model with an increasing RoF with a large magazine makes for quite a theoretically imposing weapon. I'm glad I don't really play VS though, I really dislike the way the sights are on this one, weird, distracting, diamonds. But then I've never liked VS' sights, they just mess me up. Also don't love the way it looks, sounds okay but I don't really care for "pew pews" in general.

Stats are good in a lot of ways, and I can't see why. Easily the most powerful of the three simply due to the RoF and various small benefits like the 10m maximum damage range and largest mag size.

The special "unstable ammunition" was fortunately balanced, and now gives an 86%(?) increase in starting CoF. In my opinion this makes the ammo kinda useless for the most part, only being beneficial against targets in cover or around walls. With this, the mag size, and increasing RoF it's clear to me the Canis is meant to be a no-skill spam cannon, but I don't know why anyone would have thought to design such a thing in good conscience.

Recoil is pretty standard, not much special about it. Grips are always nice and this is no exception.

Final verdict: Don't like it, wouldn't want to use it ('cause it's ugly in more than one sense of the word), don't want to see it spammed. Could use a few tweaks, doesn't need 10 more rounds than the TR's SMG, nor 67 higher RPM, nor 4m longer maximum damage range either. Dislike it.

All in all, I'm kinda surprised. I actually thought they were gonna be pretty OP, but checking them out they at least don't feel overpowered, even the Canis. Happy to say so, but at the same time balance isn't quite right yet in my opinion. The suppressers need a bit of a buff, 50% projectile velocity nerf is harsh.

Tried only the Gladius in VR and I couldn't find any reason to prefer it over the Cyclone.

In a way, it reminds me NS weapons: seems "almost good" on the surface but when you dig you do not find anything really better (or if there is something better it is counterbalanced by some weakness).

Guess there's no pleasing some people. I only tried them in VR before I had to leave for work. The TR shotgun mode seemed kinda cool. I'm just happy to see some new ES toys. IDK what kind of revolutionary weapons some people had in mind.

NC one definitely the most boring. That damage drop-off is too brutal IMO.

I tested both in VR.
NC is the most boring since it bring no new mechanic, just Tengu with more accuracy and more RoF. At least it's not a shotgun.
TR is a cyclone with less RoF but more accuracy. The "boomstick" ability look fun, at least on VR dummies.
VS is good, and with the special ammo I think it's bordeline OP. "you missed your target ? don't care, it still hit". Also, it could be cool to know both starting and ending RoF, and how much do you need to spin-up.

People complain on the weapon's name ? Really ?!
On background's logic, NC might have stolen the MachineGun - Short 1 and renamed it MachineGun Rebel - Short 1. It's not that hard.

Tried it in combat. It's pretty fine, also surprisingly scores random kills with stray bullets. I won't say it's great, but it has a fine niche.

That "boomstick" mode is very situational. Works only when you catch someone by surprise, otherwise you're dead. Also works as desperate matter when you run out of your main mag and it unloads like 18 bullets, while it's stated that there are only 9. So I'm not sure if bug or intended. But it feels pretty well without such attachment and laser sight instead.

I was immensely waiting for these guns for 2 reasons: (1) they are more detailed each than most other weapons combined (especially true for the TR, and slightly for VS), (2) we are getting unique empire-specific weapons at last, instead of an NSX Series 2. It really feels like a bit of a theoretical Planetside 3, especially that 4 more of these guns are coming. I rarely use DBC to unlock weapons or attachments, but I spent some cash on these, as I really feel this direction deserves it.

As for their performance, they are great, but I'm not going to replace my entire arsenal for a single weapon. Exaggerated, TR gets instakill, NC gets hitscan, VS gets hitbox hax. They are definitely not OP, although the shotgun mode on the Jackal does give some really interesting options for the infiltrator that weren't there before.

Almost everyone was using them for the first 10-20 minutes, got a good taste both on the giving and receiving ends, but after a few hours I'm only seeing a few on the field, most people returned to their standard loadouts. They are definitely not as overused as many expected, and they don't seem overpowered in any way. I expect their use to be above average though, just for their aesthetics.

Not gonna even read, TRs will be the worst of them all.

For ease of use and to save some space all my replies will be stuffed into this single post. Hope that's OK with everyone.

I agree completely.

Cyclone is still considerably better, and any other 200/500 weapon will be superior despite the slight difference in RoF anyway.

Hey, all I ask is that we get something useful but still a sidegrade to the pre-existing equipment.

What does damage drop-off matter if the bullets don't hit their target anyway?

The developers have complete control over the entire universe in which PlanetSide 2 exists in, and yet they squander the potential they have by practically giving the same name to two different guns at the same time? It's almost insulting to be given the most detailed weapon models yet, only to put zero effort into the names of the guns. They could have just put a couple random letters in instead.

Also the description of the Gladius states it is "the hardest hitting SMG ever designed." The TR would have nothing to do with its inception. This has NC design written all over it.

Also part II many of the NC's previous weapons have the initials of the weapon's designer in the name, such as the GD-7F --Genudine Dynamics-- and the EM6 --Esamir Munition--, so don't you give me any of that bullcrap.

That's quite the exaggeration! TR's can kill fast with that mag-dump attachment, and NC's velocity is rather high, but they're not quite to that extent.

I agree though, not really overpowered, but interesting.

Actually, the NC's is the worst of the trio.

I think the VS did finally pull the long straw, after a long time the VS did get one good gun.

And what did happen? The other two faction uprises and cries for a nerf.

Yes the SMG is good but also are the other two SMG, remember that the NC's Cyclone was considered the best SMG until now and this for Years.

Why do i think the Canis is not OP you may ask, the answer is simply:

The special Ammo has no use.

The spinup mechanic is really not needed at all, it kicks in too late. (After all it is a SMG) i could totally deal without the Mechanic.

Everything what makes this gun good are it's basics, the SMG is good from the House...

- High Magsize
- High Damage
- Very precise
- Good rate of fire

There is nothing else needed.

That VS one has got to go. That statline reads like someone just thought it would be funny to lump all the faction traits into one weapon. Big mag, decent reload, big bullet, high RoF, good velocity. And the "I can't aim" rounds on top of it it.

Get it the **** balanced.

What's the difference between Big bullets and "i can't aim" rounds again?

In the hands of a good player (with good aim) this thing is a monster like any other gun. I think this gun makes people careless and they make mistakes. It is not OP at all, sure in a typical clusterfck situation you might get extra kills/headshots but in smaller fights it is rather mediocre.
Look, this "special" ammo makes it almost useless on Hossin because you are more likely to hit anything but your enemy, same with indoor fights where you find a lot of cover.
I use SMGs mostly on my infil and with this special ammo you can forget about sneakyness as those big bullets pinpoint your location just as good as Lasher does for HA.

Sure, I got a few nice killstreaks with it yesterday, still need to get used to it as it reqires you to change your playstyle a bit but as I said I could probably pull the same with any other SMG.

To sum up, this gun has as many downsides as it has upsides. Not OP, just new and over used for now.

VS one is pretty medicore:

Bad:
You can not use it in Hipfire, it is just a worse Eridani. Increasing rate of fire is completly countered by massive CoF bloom, unless sticking it in someones face. Laser wont help you, sadly. Special ammo makes this even worse!

Good:
So the only way to play left is ADS, best with prefire to ramp up the sup par RoF. The ammo all are talking about is very niche: Hitbox is increased a bit, but CoF is enlarged, which makes it well balanced (It also seem to prefer bodyshots over headshot). Shooting from cover is not possible, so you are more exposed. Oh and it gives wounderfull weapon locks.

Conclusion:
It is a nice, fesh addition. Everything it can do can allready be done better by having a 1st or 2nd gen SMG, with better mobilty from hipfire, accuaracy, and rpm. Or any close combat class specific rifle.

I like the design, looks more like Vanu tech!

FWIW I tried the Canis.

I would have hoped better performance at range but no (oh well at least seems a tad better than the Sirius with his unbearable horizonal recoil dancing left and right).

Close up is nice - better than the Eridani (40 rounds per magazine) , I wish it had BOTH the advanced laser sight and the Vented Power Core but Alas this is not possible.

The Unstable Ammunition is a gimmick.

On reddit some people call out beeing hit behind cover by canis.
Stupids.
If the size of the bullet is bigger, then you are hitting that damn cover more often. It's NOT increasing your hitbox. Also Wrel allready stated that a nerf/rebalance for Canis is incoming, reducing the headshot multiplier for unstable ammo (Hopefully reverting that stupid 66% CoF increase instead...)

The more DBG puts a new weapon and then back pedals because someone rages over it until the weapon is nerfed, the less people are going to invest certs or cash to buy it.

Edit: I have an all access account so lots of DBG cash and thousands of certs. I am not buying anything at this time...

I honestly don't understand what's the deal here. I've been fighting against these all day yesterday, they barely posed a challenge against my Jackal (or any other weapon of choice).

Even better: They cry about it after ONE FUXING DAY!
That day, where everyone trys out the new toys. And sadly, the devs listen without giving it some time to realy test it on everydays play. A good player makes even a worse weapon work. Try it yourself on both ends and then judge. If not, your option is borderline invalid and biased.

3/4 Vanu on Ceres use Canis.
Nobody use Gladius and Jackal.

Balansce is so balanced.

TR special attachment is fun, but totally useless.
And i dont get whats hybrid about the supressor, it just does what a standard supressor does but bullet velocity is even worse. So whats the hybrid here? (Please dont tell me flash supressor... as flash supressors are totally useless anyway.)

The other factions smg i have not played myself yet, but played against and they sure kill a little bit too fast for my taste. Especially the nc smg is brutal.