C-4 Nerf Killed light assalts threat on armour. Breaks Class

C4 is still pretty bugged.
I used to just stick 1 C4 on a tank and shoot it with my rocket, instant kill. Now not so much.

Because MBT = Spammable spawn sheller.

Experienced, cooperating harasser crews were the bane of tanks. Tankers cried, because most of them run solo. Results? Harasser nerfed to oblivion.

When I get into my Vanguard/Prowler it's ONLY with my friends who happen to be experienced gunners. Guess what, even pre-nerf we didn't have any troubles with harassers...

...And now you want to nerf LA, because you're too focused (tunnel vision ftw) on shelling that spawn. Awesome.

I think you quoted the wrong dude m8. I'm not the one wanting LA nerfed.

Yes, sorry. It's fixed now.

I was playing last night and I used 2 bricks of c4 on a lighting and it blew up instatly. I then used 1 c4 and a rocket on a sundy (it had mine guard) on the back and it was on fire. Maybe I was lucky but I know neither were damaged before I did this ( I was defending a base solo at 1am cause I don't sleep)

to many rude people were TKing friendlies with 2 C4. they have given those griefer's a slap, but also everyone else. i agree LA need a 3rd block of C-4, but at hte risk of TKing tanks with C-4 again, no thank you.

Because C4 costs resources, and it takes luck/skill/attempts to do it. Not being able to kill a tank means they just pranced your way into the face of an enemy tank just to be left with empty hands and NO WAY to finish the job.

If they want to make it harder nerf C4 a bit and give them the ability to carry 3.

I don't recall there being any outcry to end the C4 faeries. They are a unique and interesting part of the game - and any tank crew that is paying attention should have no real problem with them.

I agree. I actually dont want my c-4 now. Can we get a cert refund? I have no played yet.

Oh there were. Quite a lot actually, you've missed huge drama on this topic. Now the discussion is toned down, though, not sure why.

I should say serious tankers weren't that concerned and found the fairies amusing and easy to kill. I'm not a dedicated tanker and I know personally I haven't had any problems sniping them or running away. They are pretty visible.

Yep, but their voice was a drop in the sea.

My only issue is the fact that it can be placed on the ground like a mine. It's like a tank mine, but BETTER.

If it had to be stuck to the tank to kill, that'd be ideal. Right now it has to be within like 3 meters.

Yeah, the blast radius doesn't seem to have a normal fall-off. That would be another fix they can go for instead. If you dropped c4 on the ground between three tanks in real life, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even hurt any of them. Actual contact with armor should be required, or at least a more realistic blast radius curve should be applied.

If a tank rolls right over them and they detonate it under the treads, I don't have a problem with that as they actually had to stay hidden in the area holding the stick waiting for that moment - unlike a tank mine which is just drop and forget. There may be some issues with it not rendering properly, but that is outside the scope of my knowledge on this subject.

In real life, C4 is used as reactive armor on tanks because it doesn't hurt them at all

Isn't Infiltrator Already a Weaker Bullet sponge?

Constructive posts like yours deserve constructive responses, so I'm going to give you one heck of a good one from a Dedicated Tanker's perspective. First off C4 is being inconsistent right now, but it still most certainly can kill a full health MBT with 2 sticks. It's happen to me since C4 started being inconsistent,, and at the same time it has also not killed me while still doing critical damage (sometimes failing but still doing around 95% damage). Now as a dedicated tanker let me go through your points.

Examples

1. C4 can miss a tank land on the ground infront of my front armor, blow up there and still Instagib me. Unless you're going after a Magrider, most tanks don't have turret stabilization requiring them to stay still for truly accurate and consistently accurate shots from a distance. Then there is the Prowler with Anchormode... I won't go any further with how much easier this makes Prowlers to C4. The fact that you're allowed to miss with C4 and still net a kill on a MBT is sketchy in my opinion, especially when I back up and it explodes infront of my tank without actually touching it.

2. What a blatant exaggeration. Ever heard of a tank fight where a gunner needs to help the Tanker out DPS their 2/2 MBT opponent? It's not reasonable to expect the gunner to be a 24/7 proximity radar unit, they are in the tank to shoot at stuff to get certs and help the Driver. If both Driver and gunner are actively engaging the same threat and you get the drop on them as a LA does that make the gunner mentally *******? Seriously?

3. It's not easy shooting a LA out of the air, and saying it's hard to hit a moving tank (other than the Magrider) is not a consistently accurate statement because again for the most part tanks are required to be still to make truly accurate and consistent shots from at medium ranges where tank fights occur. How hard is it to C4 an Prowler or Vanguard that's engaging a tank threat?

4. Or you fly above the tanks 50m Proximity Radar limit and drop C4 down on the tank that way, and yes it has happened to me. Proximity Radar is a very big help against LA's all the same.

5. Tanks have to worry about every single threat the LA faces other than infiltrators sniping them. Seriously other than the Infiltrator what unit in the game cannot damage a MBT or be used as a device to help kill a MBT? Think about that for a second. Think about all the threats and weapons used against a MBT which are often not used against LA's but are constantly used against tanks. ESRL's, AV Turrets, Lock ons ect. LA's have a lot targeting them, but MBT's are a big target worth a lot of certs so naturally they are in danger too pretty much where ever they go.

6. Well there's no denying that.

7. Negated by a jet pack right? (I think that's one of the biggest pluses of the jet pack right, and hence is why pilots use them to bail from their ESF's from high altitudes and still live to fight on)

8. Oh I get it, LA's have threats and issues to worry about, and I hope you understand so do tanks. Neither is a sunshine and roses.

Pro Tips for tankers.

1. Unless you have a special ability which locks you into place and then has a 3 second undeploy time before you can even start accelerating. But yes moving as much as possible is a good way to keep yourself alive.

2. It sure does! Only time I don't have it on is when I know I'll be in the open fields fighting other tanks in which case its Max vehicle stealth all the way.

3. Definitely, the MBT is at its best when it's being used as a team/crewed vehicle. 2 set of eyes is always better than one.

4. pretty much

5. Yep, you're asking for C4 on your tank at that point.

6. Lol I wouldn't say invincible. Don't get me wrong it's a big help, but one of the biggest advantages the LA gets is from the tendency of people in games to not look up for threats. Infantry are looking for things on the ground to kill them, and until they hear an ESF or get shelled by a Liberator they probably won't be automatically checking rooftops or directly above them for threats.

Notes

1. Unless you're in a tank fight which takes your full attention? My Gunner doesn't have time to be constantly looking behind me when I'm I'm trying to blow up a 2/2 Vanguard.

2. Because LA's never run out to their targets, and have a a shock collar that limits them to the immediate area around the spawn room or elevated areas? LA's can be found in the middle of an open field, in the trees, ontop of cliffs, you name it. The Jet pack gives you the ability to get in places people just don't expect to see infantry. I mean if you're locking down next to a spawn room it's like playing with fire, but parking a couple hundred meters away will not guarantee you safety. If you get comfortable locking down a couple hundred meets out from a battlefield I'll tell you right now, if you kill enough people someone will go light assault and they will come and target you. Sometimes they'll keep trying even if they failed to do so the first time.

3. Really so if spawn time doesn't matter you would've been fine with the cool down time of MBT's being removed back when MBT's cost 250 resources almost like how 2 sticks of C4 cost 200 resources? (The lack of cool down would've been nice for the times my tank got taken out by an ESF trolling way behind allied lines right after I pulled my tank, or those times when allied vehicle debris randomly fell out of the sky and killed my tank).

C4 doesn't infinitly spawn, but unlike a tank you can stash up to 40 C4 at a time, and I can't even stack a single extra tank away as nanites even if I didn't lose a tank over the course of an hour. Unlike a tank if you die with C4 before you actually threw the C4 you never actually lose it. This is nice feature of using C4 is it not?

4. On resources. C4 is not just cheaper than tanks, it literally costs less than half of what a MBT costs to kill a MBT. Take that into consideration. 200 resources for C4 used to kill a 250 resource MBT, seemed like a fair trade, and then a MBT goes up to 450 resources and 200 resources is now killing a 450 resource cost MBT. I'm not going to even argue about this though, as I had my fill of flaming and raging against me in the huge C4 threads back in the day.

Regarding Infantry resources being shared with stuff. If I pull a tank and lose it , and then want to pull a Sunderer immediately after that I can't because I also have multiple things that share that same resource pool? Don't get me wrong, I understand your issue, however one of the biggest ways to overcome this is to stock up on C4 in times of plenty when your faction is doing really well on a continent. Even in good times when 200 vehicle resources are coming in on Esamir I can't save up additional tanks in storage. I can only hit the 750 resource cap and that's it.


5. Infantryside 2 sense is more like it. In a giant battle infantry on the ground, 2/2 MBT's, Liberators wiht Daltons, and ESF's in the air guess which is the biggest threat to me on the battlefield in terms of killing me in an instant even if I have my rear covered... The single infantry player.


Now let me get this much straight, I'm perfectly fine with dying to 2 C4 if the LA actually managed to get behind me. What I'm not okay with is a LA missing me completely and having the C4 blow up on the ground beside, infront of me, in the air above me, and then my tank exploding in a ball of flames and metal. In my opinion C4 should only kill me if it explodes behind my tank (where the tank is weak), and should only do medium damage if it is in direct contact with the tank anywhere else. Frankly I think that's a good compromise for two major reasons. 1. Tanks cost basically double of what they used to. 2. LA's with C4 will still have loads of time to get behind the tunnel vision tankers they love to kill so much. You know the ones that aren't tankers, but usually are infantry players which are using their tanks as taxi cabs.






6.) I'm pretty sure that infantry players also often forget that when you're in the middle of fight, still on full health, and all of a sudden you are instantly killed that the time that it took to kill the tank from the tanker's perspective was an instant. That's not to say LA's aren't killed moments before they press the red button at times, but at the same time when you're killing that tank that was fighting another vehicle did he have 3 seconds to react once your C4 started damaging him? Nope, he had 0 seconds, once the C4 started damaging the tank it killed them instantly. By the way when a Anchormode Prowler sees a LA flying toward them, hits undeploy, and then has to wait 3 seconds before they can even start to move that is also a "mini eternity" in its own right.

Other stuff you mentioned

"Another handy fact, C4 is one of the Light Assault's main roles in combat, the infantry bomber as they say. If killing a tank would take more than 2 C4, and a Light Assault can't even cert into a 3rd brick, then you effectively destroy a very large portion of the class usefulness"

Look I'm fine with 2 C4 taking out a tank in the ways I've stated, but hypothetically speaking lets say 2 C4 couldn't take out a full health MBT. Would it mean that LA's would no longer go after tanks, or would it mean they would coordinate with an HA to fire a single rocket at it to do enough damage that the 2 C4 would still kill it. Or would it mean that LA's would only go after tanks that had clearly taken some damage?

I don't think LA's would give up going after tanks. However I sympathize with LA's to the extent that tank spam in this game is a serious problem, every man and his dog can pull a tank right now, and that is clearly bad design. Again I'd go with the compromise I've suggested since MBT's almost doubled in price, and whether you think it's a reasonable compromise I'll be interested to see. TLDR: I hope not, this is a good post.

Just remove the madafakin C4 from the game already. Or change it so that it kills Infantry and Maxes, not a 50 ton MBT. A single Infantry soldier "poppin" a 50 ton MBT? Get serious and fix this BS SOE. We have more than enough Infantryside already.

They nerfed the splash. So this means that you can't effectively nuke infantry blobs from above and the C4 needs to be closer to the MAX's feet to kil it. This means that it is now most effective at tank killing.

I would assume that the discussion has toned down because C4 fairies are no longer anywhere near as effective, and therefore common, as they were a year ago after all the nerfs to damage, splash, cost, reliability and deploy/trigger time... :S

Huh? Don't remember any of these nerfs, weird. Well, there were some, C4 were nerfed against infantry and aircraft. But tanks always died to 2 x C4 as far as I can remember.