AV Max Weapons are TERRIBLE

Discussion in 'MAX' started by RogueComet, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. water fowl

    Comets are basically crap. I pull dual comets sometimes when there's a ton of vehicles, and it's more or less worse than using a HA weapon. They can defend themselves from infantry too.
  2. Galrand

    I don't think there's a problem with AV MAX weapons, given that MAXs are already exceptional anti-infantry and anti-air weapons.
  3. lonefalcon

    the speed the round gos can easly be out healed by one eng a day dreaming one at that
  4. Cavadus

    The Pounder isn't so bad IMO. You can kill infantry fairly well with it and as long as a vehicle is distracted you can dish out some serious damage in a short period of time.

    I think the weapon is fine but that it's the MAX itself which sucks. Needs more damage mitigation especially against small arms fire.

    A MAX can be pulled from any infantry terminal and expecting to stand toe-to-toe with a MBT, or even a Lightning, is pretty silly IMO.
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  5. Manhattan

    All AV MAXs are garbage right now, and are not worth the resources required to pull them. You're always better off spawning HA and pulling out your rocket launcher.

    The Comet has it the best right now due to no bullet drop -- they can snipe stationary targets from far away (unless this has changed since beta -- I admittedly haven't tried the Comet since launch.) And even then, the damage output is pathetic enough that it's barely worth the effort of being a huge walking target to every vehicle and grunt in the area. The Pounder and Falcon are much worse off with their bullet drop and no splash damage. And again, the damage is just awful.

    I really hope it's high on their list of things to fix. I'd find it terribly concerning if the dev team currently considers the AV MAXs (and MAXs in general) to be well-balanced.
  6. Braken

    Sadly, from what some devs have said, they DO think the MAX is fine... which is absolute BS...o_O
  7. Quemo

    Having played a PS1 max for some time, then trying one in PS2, I was soooo disappointed. It is so obvious that the devs have nerfed the power of the Max. They really need to change the name because this class is no longer Max. Lol. If there is a PS3, my guess is that there will be no Maxes, nor anything like it. My AA VS Max in PS1 was one of the best AA "machines" possible. His guided rockets were the bane of many enemy aircraft! So I found it sad in PS2 that the AA Max was such a hit and miss affair. I also tried the AV configuration and just laughed at how ineffective that was too. And if you want to know why, IMHO, it is for the same reason that there are no BFRs, etc., and that is due to all the WHINERS. Even though these machines were available to all, those who didn't make the effort to get one, simply cried to Sony. I am not sure how long I will play PS2 (even though I subscribed!). Braken is right. The devs DO think the Max is fine. Haha.
  8. Policenaut

    They're better than they were in the beta, but still really mediocre. They're incredibly unintuitive and to be effective with them you really have to be close to what you're firing at. I say make them fire in a straight line.
  9. AxelDi

    I never use the AV MAX weapon anymore. When there are too many enemy armor units I will spawn HA after my big red butt gets killed. No cool down and no resource cost makes the HA so very effective; not to mentioned the HA's versatility.

    I believe the other users saying that the developers believe the MAX to be balanced are referring to a live web cast with Higby. IIRC Higby was talking about the killing power of the MAX is about where they wanted it, but may increase it slightly (I believe he mentioned +5%?). Lets just hope that satisfactory killing power doesn't also mean that the MAX game play mechanics are where they should be.

    Not to get too far off topic, but the problem may be a duel wielding balance concern. The option to equip two of the same weapon is fun, but may be the source of all the MAX weapon issues. Basically it's hard to balance a weapon that needs to be effective with just one equiped, but not too powerful when there are two. It's a horse that's been beaten to death during the beta and it's a shame the developers didn't at least try to find a solution for it before launch (there were A LOT of good ideas).
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  10. MrMacaroli

    I picked up the second Falcon with some SC a bit earlier, and I was surprised at how effective it was. I had the low profile of an infantryman, meaning I could stick to cover and remain hidden, but I had the sustained damage of a tank and some modest long-range damage capability against infantry. While true a HA with a rocket launcher is much more versatile, what I find an AV MAX to have over it is sustain. With an absurdly quick reload and an ammunition pool equaling that of most MBT's, you can lay down a lot of anti-vehicle fire, popping back into cover for the brief reload and hammering out another couple shots.

    It'd probably be pretty strong with anti-explosion armor. Perhaps it's the Falcon's high damage, but I felt like I could tear tanks apart if played more like a sneaky infantryman than trying to go toe-to-toe with them. MAX straddles the line between vehicle and infantryman, and against tanks you really need to play up the infantryman side of it-- where it's the opposite against infantry.

    Another thing it's great for is sniping deployed sunderers. It's not too difficult to arc the shots for long range against a stationary target, and high damage can keep engineers constantly needing to repair-- and it's enough in terms of damage to outperform one engi repairing.

    This is all speaking from the NC MAX's perspective, not sure how the other faction's weapons perform.
  11. ElementalFiend

    Dual VS MAX AV work pretty decent as is. I've killed vehicles no problem. Lightnings go down fast if you get behind them.

    The problem is when you run into infantry, half the time the shots go completely through the target. I have video of this, dual AV shots passing completely through infantry and dealing no damage.

    A dual AV max is pretty weak against infantry of any type, and that seems wrong. No, they shouldn't be able to kill infantry as easily as an AP MAX, but it shouldn't be impotent against them either. I'm not saying that it is impossible to get infantry kills, just that it is extremely difficult when direct hits do not always count.
  12. Pyros

    There's definitely a bunch of issues with dual AV, mostly yeah weakness to infantry, weakness to tank fire if you get focused too(you kinda blow up in 2shots top) and lack of mobility/sneakiness to flank the tanks. If you do manage to get in a good position though, I find dual AV damage to be more than good, you kill most tanks in 2 to 3 clips(well I do as a TR dual pounder) and that's a lot faster than the dumbfire missiles and also much easier to hit on a moving target/finish the target once it notices you. The problem is unlike HA it's very hard to go out and run around the tank zerg to get in a good position, if you find even a single infantry there's a decent chance you'll die if he's good and/or if you're not lucky and the MAX is obviously not very easy to hide behind cover plus the way the sprint speed works on a MAX make it hard to do short bursts of movement between cover inbetween tanks shots.

    So yeah at the end of the day, I don't find it too useful. It's nice when there's one, maybe 2 tanks, but when there's a bunch of tanks together it's pretty much terrible and you're better off as a HA or as a LA with C4. And unlike AA where more MAXes make each other more powerful, more AV MAXes really don't, you're stronger as a bunch of HAs actually because dodging the dumbfire missiles become much harder then and the HAs are a lot more ellusive.

    Overall a lot of the issues I have are more with MAX in general than with the AV variant specifically. There's similar issues with AI, only the AA performs favorably and that's because of render issues so the aircrafts can't see you half the time when you're shooting at them.
  13. ed_anger

    yes, an AV MAX also costs resources and should be able to stand toe to toe against a tank. both the AI and AA MAXes are far more useful. and there's barely any MAXes on the field as a HA is more useful and costs nothing to spawn, so there's -nothing- for an AV MAX to counter.
  14. Virtia

    I totally agree that the MAX AV needs some balancing.

    An additional points which I don't think were brought up earlier: due to the lower per-shot damage off a MAX versus HA rockets, you're forced into almost continuous fire to take down a vehicle in a reasonable amount of time. In practice, this means you'll rarely have the option of dipping into cover, whereas the HA with a rocket can pretty easily shoot and scoot. Even if you assume a perfectly favorable cover environment against the enemy vehicle, the sheer number of times you need to shoot forces a longer period of time exposed, and MAX doesn't really have enough armor to compensate for this in an anti-vehicle role.

    About the only upside you've got as MAX is a much deeper well of ammo, but in the mass battles where you're likely to need anti-vehicle support, there's bound to be an engineer somewhere.

    I don't expect to necessarily be able to win 1v1 vs an MBT, but I also shouldn't be relegated to dying without feeling like I actually did any damage. An HA can suicide-charge into that for a hell of a lot more damage than a MAX can, and can do it for free.
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  15. ytman

    I don't mind the Anti-Armor Max guns, though they could maybe see a buff (or just UPGRADE THEM!), but the AA guns on the Max are weak as sin... in general AA guns suck. I think the buff to Air was at too much a cost... One AA equiped Max should be able to down a stock fighter without reloading.

    I think in general AA sucks because of the spread of bullets.
  16. StrangerDanger

    People still shoot vehicles from the front?
  17. xShonuffx

    The balance should come from the ability to balance roles. Its basically rock paper scissors. You have AI, AV(air), and AV(ground). If you were to equip two AV(ground) You lose the ability to fight anti Air effectivly and AI battles become clumsy. If you choose AV(air) you gain leverage againts aircraft trolls but your pretty much open to attack from everything else. If you go full AI you can be a major threat on the ground in close quarter combat but you have almost no power againts vehicles both gorund and air.
    Mixing the weapons give you a balance but you lose some power and leverage againts one or the other.

    If the MAX needs anything it does need a slight power boost againts vehicles and better target reticals to see where your aiming and how and where the bullet drops so you can gauge your shots. Otherwise I think it balances out well.

    You guys gotta get out of the lone wolf mindset and work with your team. This is'nt CoD, Balance is in numbers Two MAXS are better than one. More people are better than a few. Work as a team and play yoru roles and you will have a better experience and watch your experience points skyrocket.

    Oh and STOP running in front of my MAX's like lemmings when you see like 3 people shooting out the door.
  18. Landtank

    I love the Falcon, I almost get more kills with it than the Scattercannon. A direct hit on infantry really wrecks them, and it owns MAX suits.

    I killed a sunderer today in 7 shots I think? From the front. It had full health. Seems good to me.
  19. Arrack

    All of this is slightly fail. How many shots a single MAX uses to take out a target is irrelevant. 3 MAXes will shred armor continuously with AV config. This is a TEAM game, do a MAX ever go alone against vehicles? if so...wrong time to MAX up. Press redeploy :)
  20. Pyros

    So you're saying 3 AV MAXes are a lot more powerful than 3 HAs against vehicles? Because I don't really think that's the case, which is the issue. 3 burster MAXes will definitely clear the skies in a minute and they'll stay cleared as long as they stay around but 3 AV MAXes will have trouble clearing even 3 Lightnings unless they get a major flank on them and they'd most likely not kill 3 MBTs, let alone an entire squad of tanks(which isn't very hard to get when the cooldown and cost of tanks are fairly similar to MAXes anyway, worth more but you don't spend vehicles ressources buying grenades C4 and medkits all day long).

    The problem is unlike aircrafts, you can't fight tanks head-on even as a MAX(or a group of MAXes). You have to flank them and preferably backstab them. Good luck doing that with giant armors that run at normal sprint speed with a slow acceleration. The only decent way to use a group of MAXes to take out a group of tank would be to have a sunderer or a galaxy drop them behind(without getting shot down by the tanks obviously) and only then you stand a decent chance of killing them, assuming you coordinate the targets.

    Or you can change your class to HA, equip your lock on launcher(or even the dumbfire one you start with) and pop in and out of invincible portals and take potshots until they explode. Or you can go flank them by yourself and your survival rate is much higher than doing it as a MAX due to smaller profile and better ability to actually kill any infantry on the way. Hell know the best way to take out tanks? Pull a tank.

    Saying this is a team game so obviously you need a team is a pretty weak argument when people roll in with their tanks solo(or sometimes with a gunner) and start annihilating everything around with HE/HEAT rounds, including MAXes that are designed to destroy them, until enough people decide to respawn as HA and spam them with enough dumbfire missiles that they eventually have to retreat, or sometimes die.
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