You said that there was no way they were going to stay the same, then you said that their was not way that Libs were going to get nerfed. Please clarify.
Yes, the lib is a hard counter to the MBT, and that is the problem. Hard counters are ***. Leave it as a couunter, sure, but not a hard one. Besides, Should there be a hard counter to libs in the same way they are to tanks? Imagine something that you can't really fight against that kills you in seconds. Doesn't matter how good you are, you just die. That's how tanks have it today. Swap the vehicle but keep the situation the same and I can't really imagine any sane player who'd approve of the state of things. Prevent world of tanks you say, well we're currently having the opposite. Not to mention that infantry can handle tanks if they (the infantry) know what they're doing. Libs aren't -required- in the way you make it out to be. No, but libs (or air in general) have a hilariously easy time shooting over them.
Good luck getting 10 C4s onto an Armor column while its being supported by infantry. Maybe Waterson VS is simply uncoordinated, but I've never seen a substantial number of tanks taken down by infantry. I'm saying this again. THIS GAME IS WAR. Pull some Skyguards or ESFs. You don't even need to give up your tank for it. Call up some outfit buddies to give you support. The Libs will either stay away or get blown up, and you can cap/farm to your heart's content. Air can't shoot inside buildings, where all of the important base's (Biolabs, Tech plants, Amp Stations) points are located.
I didn't read the entire thread but I do feel pretty farmed by libs. Not even in major battles helping their team, but just random liberators flying around to territories they can't even contest, just for the sake of some easy kills. As someone who often plays at night outside of prime-hours, farmy libs are the #1 cause of ruined fun for me personally. I enjoy mainly infantry combat, and you can have a nice, relatively balanced medium size 12-24 late night battle going that gets wrecked by one liberator, especially if the enemy lib is helping the defenders. Even if you could scare it away, it probably destroyed your sunderer, or caused so many of your small number to dedicate themselves to AA that your momentum is totally lost and the attack evaporates. Working as intended you might say? But I wouldn't say it made the game more enjoyable. Not everyone loves piloting to go counter a Lib, just as many Lib pilots might not enjoy the infantry game. But which is more affected by declining to learn the skills of the other? Infantry by a landslide. Yeah tank farmers are out there, but from my own experience I die much, much, more often to Liberators on the prowl for easy kills than any tank or ground vehicle. At least I can usually hide from the ground vehicles and flank around or something. Against air, I feel virtually helpless. They can see just about everything, unlike tanks who often get tunnel vision, and almost always have time to just fly away from all but the most staunch of anti-air coordinated defenses. This is especially true during off peak hours when it's hard enough to have a good infantry battle, let alone good air support to defeat the Libs. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that infantry hate getting farmed by tanks, just like tanks hate getting farmed by Libs. Well, what farms Libs? It sounds like a power triangle missing one side, because the infantry also get farmed by the Libs for the most part. They are the Apex Predator of Planetside 2, only vulnerable to very dense anti-air or some skilled ESF pilots. I've been farmed by some scummy Light PPA / Lolpods pilots plenty, but at least they can be deterred by a heavy or two with AA launchers. Liberators laugh at the slight tickle my lock-on launcher inflicts on their stoic exterior as the firecracker-grade 'splosion barely nicks their paint job. They rarely even run flares because they know how puny AA launchers are, especially if it's only 1-3. Then they just land and repair, and are back to terrorize you in about 30 seconds. My biggest irritation with it is when a Lib from a 3rd faction comes to screw up a ground battle between two other factions, when the Lib's faction can't even contest the area and has no infantry to support there. It's like ****, you have no business here but to ruin our fight. TL;DR Ground vs Liberators in a Nutshell:
How can VS of all factions fail with infantry-based AV?! You have a freaking lancer! ... yes Waterson VS might just be an uncoordinated mess if you can't even manage that. Ok smartypants. Why don't libs (and ESFs) have to go with something as specialized as the skyguard to deal with tanks? The main gripe I (and others) have is that us on the ground have to go to really great lengths to deal with certain situations, such as liberators. Air do not have to do the same, ever, for no particular reason whatsoever. Unless it's a blanket of skyguards and bursters, but why do you think they're as strong en mass as they are (and alone they're fairly worthless)? Maybe it has come as a consequence to the absurd firepower of air, hm? Remove that discrepancy of power and suddenly AA doesn't have to be what it is today. You really don't seem to grasp the situation.
Yes VS Waterson is pretty uncoordinated. Why do Libs need ESF escorts to fend off more than a 2 ESFs? Why do Libs need armor/infantry on the ground so everyone doesn't go Skyguard/Burster? Everything and person relies on everyone else to do his/her job. Actually, Libs do have something very specific to deal with tanks. Its called tank buster. https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/upcoming-tank-and-liberator-changes.189062/ Read it and weep and rejoice at the same time. Lib definitely needs more risk, but now it will be useless against more than 2 tanks, so good luck being useful in fight with more than 40 a side.
In light of a recent announcement, I'll wait and see how things go. If you missed it a few posts above, here.
heh, I just posted the same thing. Now nothing will be good against tanks but other tanks and lots of infantry with a couple of lancers.
It is a sad day for the old liberator pro's and I feel truly sorry for what is about to happen to their vehicle because of the people who jumped on the bandwagon over these last few months. I couldn't be bothered to find the post but I totally called this like right after the liberator update. I hope your vehicle is still in a usable state whilst still being enough to remove the constant spamming of them by the worse players.
Your point? I'm making an argument to support my opinion. Besides, I've said multiple times that the lib is not perfect and there are many things that need to be changed (and yes, even nerfed) in order to make it balanced. Why is this so hard to understand?
As a tanker I had no problem with them. I would get the odd lib that would sneak up on me but that was about it. Usually I would either shoot them down with my main cannon or at least hit them once which was typically enough of a stern warning to make them retreat. That was in a maggie as well so I was doing it with the worst MBT primary vs libs. The problem with them now is the resistance buff against dumbfires and tank shells. That and the sudden upshot in the amount of usage they received along with the update because of shared XP and increased tail gunner angles + other buffs. Before you could just run stealth and not have to deal with libs because there wasn't so many of them all the time. The ones you did see you could shoot them before they were aware of your presence causing them to flee.
Different server meta then. That six shot cannon of death had really great splash back then - wide enough to kill people inside spawnshields.
Libs fans loves to be tanks hard counter with 1% chance to fight back. What is libs hard counter that can fight those with as much riskes? Libs just loves telling that Rock/paper/cissors sucks while being paper rock and cissors at the same time...
Heh, I like all the tank mains complaining about getting owned by Libs in 4-5 shots while their one shotting infantry who have to go to greater lengths to kill them since their are 5 times more tanks than Libs more of the time. The update will create even more libs as now their needs to be 2 libs per tank as one skyguard can now fend off a Lib. Also, ESF play will be seriously hampered. After taking down all the enemy air, what are you going to do? with the Lolpods and its clones nerfed for the millionth time, you might as well just throw poop at tanks,
i disagree. i think Liberator play is going to dwindle down to maybe 10-20 players per server, while ESF numbers skyrocket, particularly Tomcat and Coyote users. the few dedicated Lib teams that try to keep playing will constantly be met by overwhelming groups of terrible to medium skill ESFs. nerfed or not, rocketpod ESF will be the top infantry farming/spawncamping tool along with standard infantry on infantry camping (which is sanctioned, of course. Sacrosanct, even.) it will be this way because no matter what buffs they get, tanks are inconsequential to actual gameplay, because of core design flaws, including but not limited to base design and redeploy/spawning.
