2 Orion Myths Debunked

How can the stats are greatly impacted by noobs when you cherry pick the stats from only the BR75+ people? You exclude the BR1 up to 75, like they don't exist.

Q4 KPU has only BR75 and above people, not sure how else to say it.

As for Betelgeuse, it is a worse Orion in terms of stats, but the heat mechanism allows for more sustained fire, which inflates the kill charts and make it an overall better weapon. The main difference between Orion and Betelgeuse is that with the later you will never get caught between reloads. And with the Orion you need to reload often.

Bottom line:

• Anchor produces better results than the Orion for the veterans
• Betelgeuse produces better results than the Anchor for the veterans.

What cherry picking? there is no need, it beats everything!

Swing and a miss.

What are you on about? how am I excluding BR 1 to 75!? Q4? you started the Q4 crap, go look at my original posts.
seriously, you have the stats in your face... quite the denial already!
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=7236&weapon2=7276&weapon3=80
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=7236&weapon2=7276&weapon3=1894

" the heat mechanism allows for more sustained fire, which inflates the kill charts and make it an overall better weapon" funny, you VS were screaming to the hill the other day about how much this is going to nerf you. Anyway, the betel stats still blew the god and butcher out of the water even before the heat mech "buff".... so yeah, your excuse is redundant.

I am the one excluding them, not you. I'm talking about the charts I posted, not yours.

Btw, the heat mechanism works for the Betelgeuse, because 40 bullets are usually enough to kill anyone, regardless of bad aim, body shots, HA shield and hit detection issues. Unfortunately, that can't be said for 25 bullets and thus the Eclipse and Darkstar are lackluster.

well, you're yet to prove me wrong.

Outside of the Betelgeuse the heat mechanic as it stands now is actually a huge nerf since it greatly reduces the DPM and magazine damage of some of the lowest DPM and magazine damage guns in the game. The Betelgeuse is effected by this nerf much less since it not only starts with a higher magazine damage & DPM but it also gets those stats reduced less.

Other people have, repeatedly. Just because a gun is the best default in it's class doesn't mean it's OP.

seriously? you cherry picked out the last month? here's the last three
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=1894&weapon2=7236&weapon3=80

As you can see default Orion is on par with Anchor before directives.
"Anchor tramples Orion" lol 2-3 KPU is nothing compared to 20-40 KPU... that's what you call trampling

keep in mind, everyone has default LMG, Anchor is 1k so only good HA players will buy it, and Directive weapons are only used by very experienced players. Can you comprehend it yet?
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=1894&weapon2=1879&weapon3=1924
Do you see anything wrong with this picture!?!



other random stats:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=7236&weapon2=80&weapon3=79
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=7236&weapon2=80&weapon3=7276
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=78&weapon2=80&weapon3=79

There is no point using three months charts, since there were no directive weapons before this last month. Doh.

Also comparing the Betelgeuse to GodSAW is like comparing the Orion to the original SAW. Yes it wasn't a good idea to give new players the SAW, but in the end of the day one is a close quarters LMG and the other is a long range one. And the same applies for the directive weapons. They are not directly comparable.

The thing to keep in mind is the anchor is gated behind 1000 certs or some SC and 0 kills.

The Betelgeuse is gated behind at least 1,100 certs and 5,800 kills spread across 5 weapons. (4 cheapest + starter)

Just as the Orion gets watered down because of its position as a starting weapon, the anchor gets watered down because of its ease of access when compared to the auraxium weapons.

Some nifty stats between the Orion and Betelgeuse :
Average accuracy : 18.5 and 24.3 respectively
Average KPH : 24.4 and 67.3 respectively - It is worth noting having 66+ KPH usually puts you in the top 5 to top 1% of all players with other weapons and it is the AVERAGE for this weapon.
Average TTK against LA : 1.89 and 1.41
Average TTK against HA : 3.86 and 2.85
This means despite having identical damage models and the Betelgeuse for a time having less accuracy, the average player was killing non heavies ~0.5 seconds faster and heavies a near full second faster. This result can be achieved in two different ways, first closer encounters where damage drop off doesn't play as much of a factor, and second, head shots. (along with higher accuracy)
Range to get a C rank (average) KD 0.6 to 1.05 vs. 1.7 to 2.3
Anchor is a 0.9 to 1.3 for the average K/D

*Note* part of the much longer TTK against heavies could be from the nanoweave + resist shield days, but still nearly half a second on no heavies is significant.

Stats were pulled off the DA stat site, so the player pool was limited to Outfit only or players who have manually added themselves.

I've messed up, here is the formula for TTK in PS2 according to Weapon Damage Analyzer:
This model calculates time to kill as a function of multiple factors: the distance (D) and shooter's skill (S); the target's health (H) and damage reduction (DR); the weapon's single bullet damage (M), projectile velocity (V), refire time (R), long reload (LR), and clip size (C):
BTK = ⌈H / ((M ⨯ (1 - DR)) ⨯ S)⌉
CTK = BTK / C;
TTK = (D / V) ⨯ ⌈CTK⌉ + ((BTK - ⌈CTK⌉) ⨯ R) + (⌊CTK⌋ ⨯ LR)


Anyway, I thought we were past the performance stat nonsense? The main faults of performance stats are the fact that they don't take into account difference in preferred playstyles, difference of external conditions and the assumption that all players perform the same or have equal skill. This can be a basis for "perfect conditions" when discussing balance of weapons in "blank" state, but does not represent discrepancies in effectiveness of different players when adjusting to different playstyles, skill distribution etc. in reality in the slightest. Seperated performance for different BRs is significantly more accurate than overall performance, but it STILL has more faults than pros.

Performance for NS-15M:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=301001&weapon2=301002&weapon3=301003
Obviously the TR version of NS-15M consistently performs the worst of all three.

Performance for knives:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=1&weapon2=13&weapon3=19
Again, TR variant is the worst by small margin.

Performance for Decimator:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=300101&weapon2=300103&weapon3=300102
Yet another TR weapon seems to perform slightly worse, clearly it needs a small buff.

Performance for Halberd:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=3441&weapon2=3709&weapon3=4015
Another conclusion: TR's Halberd needs a buff or VS Halberd should be nerfed.

I could go on, but it's pure rubbish.

I think im the guilty party for Vanu OP-decimator stats had great success killing banshee mossies + airhammer reavers with it on Cobalt lately... ;,( (nerf decimator for VS!)
(also bit guilty for the OP Magcutter since when running around staring up with Deci, i run into enemy infantry close up now and then and its faster to knife them than switch weapon so nerf Magcutter to!)

While on the subject "nerf ES weapons for heavies"
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=7540&weapon2=7528&weapon3=7533

Buff lasher like hell and nerf JH and MCG...

I'm showing you the 3 month chart because it shows the weapons before the Directives change, it's completely relevant to what we're talking about!
You can see Anchor and Orion on par before the Directives. BUT, as I said earlier, everyone has default LMG (Orion), Anchor is 1k so more good HA players will buy it, and Directive weapons are only used by very experienced HA players
So, as I explained earlier, the results are skewed by not so great, not so regular HA players negatively impacting the default LMG stats.
As can be seen, with the massive jump in KPU for directive weapons (a lot of the good HA players received it instantly), the KPU bump for Anchor (a lot more, decent HA players are leveling it up to get ARX), and the KPU dip for default Orion (all of the skilled HA switch to ARX or are leveling other LMGs for ARX weapon, players who don't role HA much continue to use the Orion)

The Directives clearly point out a lot of the good HA players moved on to the ARX weapons or other LMGs to get it, leaving the default to be used mainly by casual HA. it's obvious.

The reason the Anchor KPU jumped is the same reason why the Betelgeuse KPU jumped....

Also: Nerf all Vanguards damage to air with about 40% so it needs to 2-shot ESF (or just increase drop and reduce speed ALOT)
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=aKPU&weapon1=4000&weapon2=3700&weapon3=3400

Heres another NC weapon in BAD need of a nerf...
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=16029&weapon2=16033&weapon3=16031

Nevermind, I didn't read the full post.

Interesting line of thinking. I too use the Betelgeuse, but not due to stats, that thing has recoil that goes all over the place making use of scopes other than 1x impractical. Still, it became my goto LMG simply because how good the sustained fire is, when you don't have to reload every 3 seconds. Give me NS-15M with the heat mechanism and I'll be a happy camper.

Why would the more skilled NC move to Archon though the exact same month the VS would move to Betelgeuse? That's the only hole in your line of thinking. While looking at what I posted, Anchor has been outperforming Orion for quite some time now. (I pulled the graph 3 months before the current directives month and the Anchor lead is still there, just not that big as it is this last month).

Sshhh, dont ruin it.

NC are winning in 98 other categories, but when they are behind 0,1 KPU on CQC LMG's the game is broken and everything VS has needs to be fixed. Game is unplayable, its GG SOE.

Q4 means 75-100 doesn't it? that's the gist I got from Xasapic