When infils finally manage to chase every other player off...

..what then?

I mean; it's only a matter of time. Getting killed by infils is the single most detrimental experience in this game.

/action music
Dodging a nade
jumping this log
Shooting you in the face
HOO! HA! KNIFE!
Ah! Nearly got me that medic there!
Have a flashbang!
PewPew!
Rattattat!
YAY! I survived!


DINK!

.....

Staring at the screen after being headshot by that infil just sitting there in a bush under the stairs for the entire fight.
Decloaks on deathcam
Teabag


It's like a gnawing cancer. Chipping away at the ever dwindling playerbase that doesn't play infiltrator... Chasing away every defenceless newb silly enough to stand still for 2 seconds to check the map.

DINK!

DINK!
DINK! DINK!
DINK! DINK! DINK! DINK! DINK!!!

It will be a game without people complaining about OP Heavies, MAXes, Vehicles and C4 fairies.

1st Law of Planetside
"All classes, weapons, equipment that kill me has to be nerfed or removed because it is bad gameplay"

2nd Law of Planetside
"All classes, weapons, equipment with which I kill must be buffed or expanded because it is good gameplay"

There's a reason why PS1 gameplay was so much better. And why nanoweave in the beta version of this game affected headshots.

It's weird we go back on obvious decisions that made the experience more fair and enjoyable. I still question who got the idea of adding cloak and 1hk weapons in the same class, it's something that's not seen in any other shooter - for good reason.

There are plenty of things that players find annoying depending on what class they play.

For example - I find nothing more demoralising than getting the drop on a HA and unloading half a clip into their back, only for them to pop overshields on, spin around and ping me in the head.

Same with flash and harasser roadkill. You pull AA max to deter the countless Banshee Mossies or Mustang Reavers from farming infantry with impunity, only for a wraith flash or harasser to drive over you as if you were made of mashmallow - and your 450 nanites are up the spout.

I think that this needs two solutions.

1: realize how snipers work. A sniper under the stairs waiting a fight out doesn't really happen because their cloak runs out too fast and you would have heard them cloak. Every time you think about stopping be aware of sightlines that your enemy could have on your positions. Short sightlines means you are safe from cloaked snipers as you can hear them, long sightlines are to be avoided unless allies hold those area's.
This should be basic for players, as almost any LMG or Carbine can kill you if you don't watch those lines and catch you standing still. Take it from an LA that is constantly out and about with little cover and still rarely gets killed by snipers.

2: OHK can be frustrating, however snipers would be a lot less useful overall if their damage is directly nerfed. Snipers would need to get something worthwhile as compensation for losing a OHK ability on headshots, and possibly also on bodyshots to keep the weapon class useful. For example a headshot that should have killed you from full health would instead leave you with 1 health and a concussion grenade effect. A bodyshot increases the minimum COF for a few moments and a shot into the leg slows them down. This way they remain at least somewhat useful despite not having OHK ability unless the target is already damaged.

Sniping is not the issue.
One shot kills are not the issue.
Hiding and ambushing are not the issue.

CLOAK IS THE ISSUE

Cloak only allows you to perform those roles more easily. To say that it is the sole and only problem is false. You need to think clearly and not try to utterly remove it or nerf it to hell. You need to think of a solution that offers satisfying gameplay to both the cloaker and his enemies.

The key to most complaints is that players feel they couldn't defend themselves or anticipate something. The best way out is to take that feeling away. Add more ways to detect and anticipate cloakers, like changing the duration of cloak or adding gadgets and weapons to classes that can help detect cloakers. Or removing the OHK function so players have the ability to react afterwards and still fight back somehow. Give players a chance to enjoy the fight rather than feel "dink" about it.

Spitting straight facts once again, Demigan. The thing is, the people who hate Infiltrators are a very vocal part of the community and they band together to try to get them nerfed or removed. You can see that with certain people's posts and how they'll get quite a few thumbs up on every post, usually because it has something to do with hating Infiltrators, so keep it up.

Do you have anything to back up that Infiltrators are the single most cancerous thing in the game and that they drive away players? I know that when I first joined this game like 6 years ago, I didn't have a problem with dying to Snipers. If I got sniped, I was doing something stupid, or I knew where they were and they got me while I was moving. To them, I say GGs. All these posts you make about hating Infiltrators always seem that they have something to do with Snipers, but give the Sniper to any other class and let them play with it. They may have a harder time getting into position, they may not. They have higher health, able to take 1 more bullet, they have abilities that could potentially pair well with a OHK weapon, and they can use them at the same time. You can't be cloaked and use a sniper at the same time, and if you feel that you can, thats not an intentional feature, and there are ways to mitigate it. An HA has even more health, making him harder to kill, a Medic has infinite health over time, a LA can get into even worse positions that an Infiltrator can't get to without an ESF, and an Engineer can sit at the same spot and spam people down with shots forever. Do you really want that? What about a MAX with a sniper? Would you like that? Snipers are not an issue, and if you get killed by someone who was waiting for you, sucks to be you man, but thats the game. Find him, and wack him with your Cat in the Hat bat.

The cloak is not THE issue. There just needs to be passive ways to detect it. Tools are nice and all, but they require sacrifice and specialization just to get them. I already suggested that base spotlights and vehicle headlights illuminate Infiltrators. That means they have to play more cautiously around them, helping out when you are fighting stalkers. Then you can make their cloak less effective in deep cloak, so if you are looking for them up close, you can find them. Then you can give them some sort of buff to balance it out. Playing a numbers game is not something we want to do folks. We don't want to change X duration of this or Y CoF of this or Z of this. Numbers is a tricky game. It'd be better to take the extra time and look for possible alternatives or mechanics we can add to the game to make it more user-friendly for those who complain. We don't want a divided community, now do we? We want both sides to be happy, and if you decide that you aren't going to be happy with anything shy of removing a class or playstyle, you don't deserve to have your opinion catered to.

well I would say cloak, 1hk, vehicle/infantry balance and headshots are all pretty serious issues.

They are big obstacles for new players, and aren't any source of fun for the vets who play and just deal with it.

Yes, everything is perfect and there are no imbalances or just downright broken ****. If you criticize my overpowered class I'll bury you with false equivalencies.

The point of the game is to have fun. Playing a game of cat and invisible mouse that has recon to know where the cat is isn't very fun. Getting instagibbed out of nowhere with no ability to react or fight back isn't fun. Especially with the clientside factor, you can basically redeploy if you encounter a guy that knows what he's doing, because there's 0 way you're killing him, unless you pull an infil yourself.

It's a terrible expereince. That's why they removed shotguns from infiltrators. That's why sniper rifles were not 1hk with nanoweave back then (basically infils had cloak but no 1hk capabilities). Few people complained about them back then. In planetside 1 if you had a sniper rifle you weren't allowed to have cloak as well.

Then they added stalker cloak, 1hk knives, tweaked nanoweave to make snipers 1hk and all.

That's when people complained, and for good reason. Cloak/stealth is already the most powerful ability in the game. Pairing it with the best/easiest to use weapons makes it a low risk high reward class. A mega pain in the rear to deal with. Never have I once died to an infil and thought to myself that I've gotten outskilled.

It's not this type of stuff players enjoy. When they die they need to feel they had a chance, either they got outskilled or they messed up in some way. Dying to the current infil brings none of that.

Wrong.

Or maybe because they agree with the post?

Besides nearly 7k hours of gameplay (my signature is partial) and the direct testament of dozens of new players and people I've tried to recruit into the game? Years and years of forum and reddit posts? Perhaps the biases for your own playstyle cause you to dismiss contrary views. Y'know do things like you describe above...dismiss others "liking" something you don't?

As do we all. Snipers are not the chief complaint.

Not feelin' ya dawg. I think you're making a strawman about snipers so you can argue with the point you want to argue with, not the one people are making. Snipers are not the main complaint.

Like the archer? I'm not sure where you're going with this stupid hypothetical. ...

You mean like the nano-armor infiiltrator with higher effective health than a resist shield heavy?

Full stop.

Ok right here. This thing you just said was wrong.

Maybe that fact you don't get this is why you don't get the broader argument. Infiltrators CAN be cloaked and fire at the same time. The decloak on fire mechanics combined with network behavior, combined with clientside game mechanics render the victim incapable of taking any actions when decloaked and fired at. For all practical purposes infiltrators fire while cloaked.

If you get this. Like really wrap your head around it... You'll begin to understand the entire other side of the discussion.

But anyway...

No. Nobody asked for this. You're arguing with yourself. The cloak is the issue not the sniper rifle.

Really man? The stupidity of this straw man is getting so big it's visible with the naked eye from space.

Yes it is. Try to keep up.

There just needs to be a passive ways to detect it? And if there aren't then it's a problem, yes? Well guess what? There aren't.

Now instead of acknowledging that even you agree the cloak is a problem, please list a bunch of stupid ways that we can mitigate an invisible class in a 3d shooter..

Give the infiltrator an additional weapon slot. Remove cloak from ability slot, put it in the weapon slot.

Problem solved.

The community is already divided. You're doing it.

Everyone agrees the infiltrator is a broken class. Everyone except infiltrator mains. Even all the engie, medic, LAs who gripe about the HA overshield will nod in agreement that the cloak is the real broken thing.

No you don't. You want YOU to be happy.

If you pay attention you'll notice the other side is not happy. They haven't been for years. If you REALLY want both sides to be happy then you need to acknowledge this.

I don't think you do.

I think I love you man.

Thanks for being an eloquent voice of reason.

Cloak should have never existed as a combat ability in the first place.
Infil as a whole is also bloated with strong mechanics; their whole kit is arguably the most powerful in the game. The only thing that is comparable is Medic and that is mostly due to the res mechanic.

Jibba, thats because they never learn. As I have already said, I never had a problem with it. I understood why I died and why I was targetted instead of coming to the forums and complaining about it. And what the heck are you talking about? The dude is literally talking about getting insta-killed by a headshot from a sniper, hence why I even talked about snipers and why they aren't a problem, so it makes no sense for you to say I'm pulling it out of thin air.

You also can't take part of a quote and counter that, omitting the part of the quote that was addressed to the counter you were thinking of saying. I said "You can't be cloaked and use a sniper at the same time, and if you feel that you can, thats not an intentional feature, and there are ways to mitigate it." I was directly talking about the effect the cloak has on a network, clientside. Yet, you then go into talking about it because you only used part of the quote, the first section of it. Demigan has already said to make the decloak time longer so that people can react to this, and this is something most Infiltrator mains can agree with. Yet you look over that fact and start spitting already known facts that didn't need to be discussed.

Also, the Archer is not an effective sniper on infantry. It has 5 shots, a long rechamber time, and doesn't 1 hit to the head. Therefore, that argument is invalid. It is not the same type of sniper that Infiltrators use. My point was that any other class with a sniper wouldn't be much fun as they don't have to decide if they are going to be using the sniper rifle or the ability. They can do both, and may even be able to use it more effectively than an Infiltrator.

The whole nano-armor argument is stupid, so stop using it. A resist shield Heavy can use his weapon WHILE having his ability active. You can NOT use your weapon while your cloak is active, meaning that to use the damage resistance, you are either running away and tanking a few hits or running to someone and tanking a few hits. It means you are taking damage nonetheless. If you want to go ahead and say that you can shoot while cloaked once more, again, there are ways to fix that, as Demigan has already said. Even still, the cloak has a timer on it, so its not like you can stay cloaked forever, fire and uncloak (from a clientside viewpoint), recloak, and repeat forever so that no one will ever see you coming. Your cloak will run out, and then you can't do it, and it will usually run out before you have the chance to do it again. That, paired with the fact that the Nano-Armor Cloak takes even longer to recharge means that you have even LESS time and even LESS chances to pull it off. Therefore, this is a stupid argument.

Cloak isn't necessarily a problem. Its the fact that players don't want to adapt and learn to fight a playstyle, so if you want to keep both sides of the playerbase happy, it pays off to grant passive tools to make it easier for players to adapt to. Believe it or not, people don't have having to replace a Laser or Advanced Laser for a Darklight Flashlight just to kill a single Infiltrator.

Grant us a new ability and buff the length of the cloak, and then we'll talk.

Not everyone agrees Infiltrators are broken and the scum of the universe. Even other classes will defend them. For instance, Demigan isn't even an Infiltrator main, but he is trying to come up with a logical way on how to balance them. You do not. You don't want that.

"The other side isn't happy." Then let's actually try to change that isn't of harshing on ideas that we are trying to throw out to keep everyone happy. Removing a playstyle you don't think is OP and may even have a hard time playing with doesn't feel good, don't you agree? You should do your best to keep both sides happy, and thats what I'm trying to do. I'm giving ideas, trying to reach an agreement or a compromise so we can both have what we want, but you don't want that. I'll cave in on some of the things I want so that both sides can be happy, so its unfair and wrong for you to say that only I want to be happy. Making it harder for myself to play the game obviously must mean that only I want to be happy, huh?

I like my Buzzard Wraith Flash. I like my Railjack. I like my Tomoe. I like my Hunter QCX. But I can understand what the other side feels. Hey, I may think that you just aren't paying attention and you get killed because of your tunnel vision, or that you can do something to avoid dying to an Infiltrator on the first shot, and I may be wrong or right, but you don't feel that way, do you? So I can attempt to see where you are coming from, but believe it or not, it does take some measure of skill to pull these things off.

The Buzzard requires you to hit 2/3 of your shots to kill infantry, excluding Infiltrator, which needs a body shot and a max damage AoE hit. What I like to do is find a sunderer, find a little hill to turn myself into a mortar, get the right angle, and fire at a sunderer. Do I get a lot of kills? No, not really. Do I destroy the sunderer? No, not really. Do I die by the MBT that pulls up if I stay there too long or don't skiddaddle? Yep. Do I help my team out by causing chaos? Of course! People have to come to look for me, because if they don't, I'll hopefully eventually take down the Sundy. Thats my role.

I take my Railjack, find a good spot, and try to get a visual on enemies. Does it take a bit to get there? Yes. I take my Flash. Do I always find someone? No. Do I always get a kill before I die? No. Do I sometimes miss shots that should have been easy because someone flinched? Yes, and it gets annoying. Do they turn around and start shooting at me? Sometimes. Do people come back after I finally do kill someone? Usually. Do I try to shoot people in close range with a Railjack, and feel epic when I pull it off at the last moment? You bet. This is how I play with my Railjack. Once, I even found a random sundy of some guys setting up a base, and I sniped them like 4 times at least, even though I was underzoomed. They teabagged me after they got me.

We aren't gonna talk about the Tomoe, I suck with it.

I started out playing with the Hunter QCX, because I like bows and crossbows, so this was the best thing I could get, and I am not very good with it. I'd stalk and wait for someone, and I'd usually wait too long and miss my opportunity. I'd take out the most important players while they weren't paying attention, and try to run back. When they pull out the Darklights, I knew I was going to die, so I ran and ran. Sometimes I'd get them, other times I wouldn't. Thats just the way it is, and thats how I played the Hunter QCX.

This is how I play Infiltrator, and I don't appreciate you trying to nerf something that I'm not playing as OP. I see some people using cheesy strats that shouldn't work. I see people who suck as Infiltrators and I see people who are actually really good. Do I wish the cringe lords would just die sometimes? Of course, don't we all? But should we punish people who build out their craft and who are actually skilled (though skill is hard to determine) just because I don't like that they killed me?

That being said, I told you this so you could at least attempt to understand how I play and why I even bother trying to defend this class that the vocal section of you guys hate so much. Its not all so black and white. If you think the community is divided so bad, then at least attempt to come to a good agreement instead of writing the ones we try with off, because that gets old fast. Just try to work with us. Just try to agree. Just try at least a little bit.

If this again the "don't stand still!" lesson I learned from dying to an invisible class in an MMO FPS you can stop. It's very cringe and it's not something you should bring up as a point. If we were angry for dying standing still or not paying attention in an fps we would've quit long ago.

asides from pulling an infil yourself, I'd be curious to hear what fantastical ways we can counter the infiltrator class in your mind.

Yeah mb we're all noobs who've been playing since launch with10k + hours and all infantry directives unlocked on all factions multiple times but we're still learning. You're right, we'll try to pay more attention to the invisible class that's waiting to pick us off from behind or miles away.

Any tips to survive the 1hk shot though? it's really my biggest issue, asides from standing still or tunneling in one spot.

Lol dude you're telling the super aggressive classes in the front lines to be situationally aware, pay attention and not stand still? Seriously?

Yeah.....sounds real fun.

And from the perspective of the other dude, there's an invisible quad parked at an impossible angle/distance shelling the spawn and what comes out of it. He can either choose to ignore it and the spawn will eventually be killed - so he can't be in the fight he's enjoying - or he can choose to go waste his time chasing an invisible bike that will outrun him, and be impossible to see - so he can't be in the fight he's enjoying.
To sum it up, you're basically just saying you troll others trying to play the game by leading them on an impossible wild chase that will waste their time, most likely end in them getting killed anyways, and take them out of the fight where they were having fun. That's real cool dude.

I get that they need to add a few crutches so people can relax, because not everyone is willing to git gud aim better and work for kills. That's why the infil at launch was this opportunistic class. You'd die to it once in a while, maybe he picked you off when you had no health left. Whatever, not the end of the world. But over the years they buffed the class to be a super troll and mad broken ez kill machine. 1hk, infinite cloak, 2hk to the body, recon, aux shield, cloak vehicles, etc

What did other classes get to "counter" that? A flashlight that works in the range where cloak is somewhat visible unless the dude is crouched/stationary (>5m) and that works maybe 1/5 times? Idk if they fixed how buggy it is, given how the things so useless I never run it. Yeah pretty underwhelming.

So yeah give the people a scavenger class, but don't give them weapons and a tool kit which actually impacts the game. Let them scrape a few "lucky" opportunistic kills together once in a while, but don't make them the super troll broken class they've become.

In it's current state the class is basically the A2G of infantry. A class where lesser skilled players go to easily score some kills, and just downright troll others trying to play the game. A class to which the only counter is to pull the class itself.

If you're actually skilled then no matter what they do to the class, the weapons, you'll still perform fine. I've auraxed the patriot flare gun. Skilled players can pick up any calls, any weapon, any attachments and still rack in amazing streaks. All fixing the class would do is prevent people from crutching too hard on it.

That's why they nerfed the heavy shield. It's useless to win 1v1s now, when back then I'll admit it had a solid impact. Now it's hard to die to a bad heavy in a 1v1. Man I can even take on 3 or 4 of them at once as a light assault with a single carabine magazine. A skilled heavy however will be able to aim and position himself properly, so the kills he gets keep his shield up and provide him no downtime between engagements. That's why the skilled heavies run C4 and not medkits. They kill you before their shields even drain (that means they take less than 407dmg to kill people with their lower ttk lmgs and movement penalty). That's skill. That's stuff I die to and try to learn from, and see it as a challenge. Dying to a cloaky boi ambushing me out of nowhere doesn't inspire me to do anything but smh at the direction this game's taken.

No, its more to it than not standing still.

If you actually want tips, sure. Play the class for a little bit and watch how other Infils play, and what they do to kill you. Look for what they are fishing for. Playing against all of the other classes is a "physical" game. Countering an Infiltrator is psychological. Make a mental note of where snipers go. Scan the area before you encounter an Infiltrator to see where they'd be. Where would you go if you were an Infiltrator? Never move in a straight line. There is a hierarchy to who dies first: people who are shooting at you, people who are standing still, then people who are in combat and slowly moving, then people who are slowly moving, then people who are moving in a straight line on the Y axis, then people who are moving on a straight line in the X axis, and finally, people who are moving erratically. Be the last one on the list to shoot. Pretend you don't notice them and flank them when they aren't paying attention. They can't stay cloak forever, despite what some of you may think, so they are sitting behind cover, breaking LoS with their targets most of the time, maybe slowly moving. Flank them and scare them. They may have a recon dart or motion spotter down in the area, so slowly approach if at all possible, or quietly disable the recon device. When you get close enough, shoot them. Those are my tips, and thats why I don't die to my biggest threat very often. I'll get hit by them, but I won't die to them.

Bruh, what? It seems to me like you always take everything on a low pop scenario, but I'm not referring to a low pop scenario. I am talking about an actual battle. This is a team game. This is a team game. This, is a team game. If a dude decides to go in solo, deploy his sunderer, and starts getting attacked by literally ANY VEHICLE without support, he's probably gonna lose. With the Flash, you are the least dangerous type of vehicle to attack them due to your low health. With people preparing the sunderer, they don't HAVE to go look for me, but its in their best interest to do so. Also, you musn't forget that I am NOT an invisible quad when I am firing my weapon, that I am NOT parked at an impossible angle or distance due to the drop and unfriendly nature of the weapon, and that he CAN kill me. He is even likely to do so, but not on his own if I never approach. Plus, its a lot of guesswork to try to figure out how to attack him from range.

What does this have to do with my post? We have talked about this before topic before. We give suggestions to it. Mentioning this and not incorporating any of the suggestions is irrelevant. First off, stop using the word "troll." Just remove it from your vocabulary. Even if you think it applies, whether it does or doesn't isn't of any consequence. Secondly, 1hk and 2hk on body are traits inherent to a weapon, not a class, so don't apply it to the class. Third of all, why mention "infinite cloak" if we haven't talked about Stalkers yet? Its not an inherent buff either, but a different playstyle. Still, I agree with how unbalanced Stalker can be, and I have already suggested things to make it better, but you don't want to talk about those, now do you? Fourth, the auxillary shield is for every class... And fifth, cloak vehicles are the way things should go, but why should we limit it to just that? Demigan and I have already talked about class specific vehicle modules that take the class you are using and give you an ability for it, which would be a WHOLE LOT more fun than just having an Infiltrator's cloak. Wouldn't you agree it'd make Flashes more unique?

Also, I have already suggested passive ways to identify Infiltrators, but you don't mention that, do you? You haven't mentioned any fixes that any of the Infiltrator mains or pro-Infiltrator people have suggested. Never once. Why not? We all know the Darklight is stupid. We can all agree with that. I don't think you realize that Infiltrators are some of Infiltrators biggest enemies. We too have to find them. Enemy snipers are the most dangerous people to us, excluding ESFs that just pelt the area with rocket pods. Stalkers will quickly dispatch of us and there is little we can do about it. We know this! Why are you mentioning it and not providing fixes? Problems, problems, problems are all you talk about, but not good fixes that can benefit both sides of the community. Why not? At least try to help each other!

Don't hide behind "it's not an intentional feature".

It's a feature. It's the way the game works, and it's broken AF. Come to grips with how the infiltrator is actually broken man.

I'm not discussing with Demigan. We see eye to eye more than you might imagine. I'm discussing with you.

If you are admitting the cloak is broke AF and needs fixed then we are in agreement. Why argue?

The archer sucks. I'm just trying to play along with your hypothetical about giving sniper rifles to other classes. No idea where you were going with that.

No. The argument that the infiltrators OP cloak is offset by his lower health because another class can soak another single bullet is stupid. You stop using that and I won't have to bring it up.

Did you just use L2P argument? Really? You think you are discussing this with noobs or something? I assure you I have adapted as much as can be.

Your chosen play class is invisible dude. Why don't you learn to adapt to not having that crutch?

Not getting what you're saying here. It seems you're admitting the non-infiltrator players need some additional tools. Why would they need that if there isn't a problem? Or are you saying there's a problem?

Let us not even speak of the dark flashlight. It doesn't pass the straight face test.

What I hear is "I already have the most OP class in the entire game and I will not give up my crutch without you giving me a new one to replace it"

That said, if you've seen my other posts you'll note that I suggest *buffing* the cloak (gasp!) once it is moved away from the ability slot and into a weapon slot.

Not everyone agrees the earth is round either. I'm ok dismissing the opinions of the uninformed.

Demigan is putting forth his own suggestions how how to fix what he percieves as broken. Rest assured he recognizes it's broken.

I have put forth my own suggestion on how to fix them. You have just now pretended you didn't read it. /shrug.

Nope. Don't agree. If there is one playstyle that wrecks the fun of all the other people on the server then that playstyle needs to go. Sorry. To say otherwise would be really selfish.

I remember waaaaaaaaaay back when the game first launched. As a noob I used to go on benders as an NC Max main. The *original* NC MAX. With charge and everything. Pre-pre-pre nerf. That thing was broken AF. It had to go. Period. I was wrecking the fun of many other players.

If there is some way to preserve your playstyle and still allow others to have fun then I'm fine with that. I don't *want* to wreck some other playstyle. certainly wouldn't want my own messed with. But if my own chosen playstyle is wrecking the game for others (like that NC Max) then so be it.

I cannot read your mind. Perhaps you want everyone happy. I dunno.

What I see is:
The infiltrator class is broken AF and has been for years.
You are playing it.
You are defending it on the forums.

Best I can tell what you really want is the status quo.

Look man, you're clearly a cheese lord. You like to win unfair fights. You're playing the right game!

You're not getting it though. Nobody gives a **** that they die. This is planetside. It's a hell simulator.

What people get frustrated with is when the outcome of an engagement has nothing to do with their own skill. Basic psychology. And that is what the bulk of infiltrator engagements are. Same with infantry on the recieving end of HESH or A2G farming.

Losing to anyone in a 1v1 is still fun to me. Sure I might curse when I lose but it's invigorating. Fun. Losing to something invisible when I was afforded no opportunity to do anthing about it? Not fun.

People don't care about dying. They care about fairness.

You are winning because your class is OP. Period.

You may develop skills and I don't want to take that achievement away from you. But you're failing to recognize that the cloak negates the skill of your opponent. You only have to excercise your own skill. You do not have to deal with the skill of your opponent. And you pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that it was all you.

Try to work with you? You can't even admit there is a problem with the cloak.

But don't worry. Nothing is going to change and the game will continue to die because of it. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Dude, did I say anything about it being the ONLY problem or that it should be nerfed or removed? No, no I did not. Stop putting words in my mouth and making grand assumptions.

In fact I think none of those things. The only real reason it's an issue on infiltrators is because with the client side lag they in effect get to fire while invisible. So if anything were to be done it would be to just tweak things a bit so that was not the case. Now we might me able to make an argument about having one hit kills AND cloak together but that's more of discussion than something to fix.

PS - No vehicle should have a moving cloak.