When infils finally manage to chase every other player off...

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Zhakathoom, Jun 11, 2021.

  1. JibbaJabba


    That's the crux of it. Infiltrators can fire while invisible.

    Re: vehicles.. put the cloak in the weapon slot. Let them be invisible OR fire. Not both.
    • Up x 1
  2. Blue_Lion

    The don't stand still does not really hold up. Snipers are really good at picking of people on the move unless you run serpentine the whole way. -Which when you rushing back after a respawn to get on the front lines slows you down. 70% of the time I am killed by head shot from a inf I was moving, the other 30% I was doing something that required not moving. Like using a lock down to encourage ESF to go away, or using a vehicle terminal.
  3. OneShadowWarrior

    Glad to see I am not alone in my rants about infiltrators.
  4. Scroffel5

    I dont think you understand why thats just a stupid idea. You say its because of clientsiide? Then do just what Demigan said. Make the decloak time longer. Keep the weapons deactivated until it is fully decloaked, make it take longer to decloak, and make the decloak louder. Trying to change the whole functionality of a class when THIS IS ONE OF THE TIMES WHEN NUMBER SPOOFING IS SIMPLE is stupid.
  5. JibbaJabba


    If your cloak was on a weapon slot but you still had all your other weapons... (maybe even make your cloak a bit better as I mentioned.. gasp!)

    Is there something unfair here? Can you not still cloak? Use 0hk weapons? Wouldn't the the weapon switching solve the fire while cloaked problem same as adding adding a delay? You get faster weapon switch from pistols, slower for the bolt even..

    Sorry, what was it you said?

    So have at it. Adapt.

    I think you want the status quo because it's in your advantage. /shrug.
  6. JibbaJabba


    In defense of the infils I don't think this is so much a problem with the class. A good shot is a good shot. It's hard as **** to pop someones head that has a good shuffle. If they do it they should get the kill.

    I think what has manifested as a problem (increasingly over say last year?) is that the population of snipers is growing. So when you cross that open ground there are 10 of them when there were 5 before. More have the bandwidth to target you individually.
  7. Demigan

    You've been extremely vocal about cloak recently and when Zakathoom said "remove cloak" you wholeheartedly agreed. So it wasn't a big assumption to say you wanted it nerfed to oblivion or removed after that. Especially since I don't think you've suggested any other solution than nerfing/removing.
  8. LodeTria

    The last time we had stats the heavy assault was the leading class, with engineer 2nd being inflated by vehicle users.
    These stats are quite old now though, several years infact, but I doubt things have changed given that not much has changed since then, not to mention the amount of love HA has recived directly or indirectly.
  9. JustGotSuspended



    Well thanks man, I've already auraxed it 3 times and it's weapons, but I'll give it another go :p


    So yeah basically you explain that to counter an infil you basically need to devote your time and attention solely to the invisa boi. Which let's be realistic, is not realistic. Unless maybe if you're an infil....

    Basically they force you to waste your time and don't even provide a decent fun fight in return. Sick. I'm sure they're not trolling, but by definition they are cleverly wasting someone's time for their amusement, which is....trolling!

    IN any case I would love to see a few video tutorials of you to see how you apply these tips in a combat scenario. And not a low pop fight - an actual battle as you say.


    ....and I'm not?

    I doesn't matter that X of dudes go out to chase after you, chances of them actually getting you are pretty much null, unless you somehow greatly mess up. You're basically forcing them to give up the fight to go chase some invisible thing they'll never catch. Or sure, they could all repair the sunderer forever or ignore the fire until the spawn blows up, which either way denies them the ability to go fight as well.

    And I mean lol if you need an army of dudes to deal with one cloak flash then that should indicate something about how broken the thing is.

    But only when it benefits you right? I doesn't matter than one solo guy is able to wreck chaos and basically troll everyone trying to fight. But it's totally obvious that to counter the solo flash you need teamwork, coordination, luck, and a ton of dudes to comb the area for an invisible quad that quickly drives off when it sense danger.

    Very reasonable.

    You're not admitting the class is broken. You're pretending to agree only to propose the most ridiculous and utterly useless ways to "solve" the problem. You keep denying the actual problem when people explain it to you.

    Stop using the infil in it's current state. You literally explained to us what you do is cheese others and prevent them from enjoying a fight for no reason. That's trolling buddy!!

    And yeah, it is of importance. Because the point of the game is to have fun and it's not fun to fight trolls.

    Jibba sums it up quite nicely:


    The point is fighting an infil is extremely one sided, and basically revolves around you giving up everything else (fun) you were doing, to track down something that
    1. Knows you're coming thanks to it's recon tools
    2. Is invisible
    3. Can redeploy while invisible
    4. Is typically in a place where they have the advantage
    So you're basically walking towards an invisible deathtrap, where you aren't even guaranteed the guy hasn't redeployed or invisibly ran away, and on top of that, even if you do kill the guy it wasn't a fun fight because you're not fighting anything skilled or amusing.

    I have many times, it just seems you prefer to ignore the ones that don't benefit you.
    Well for one the cloak on vehicles should be moved to a weapons slot. It was meant to safely get you to your destination, not to create a nightmarish machine of death.

    Next I would do either of 2 things:

    An early planetside 2 approach.

    Make nanoweave affect headshots, or play around with hs multipliers so each weapon requires at least one more headshot to kill, maybe 2 for smgs.

    OR

    A more planetside 1 approach.

    Remove stalker cloak. Place the cloak in the primary weapon slot. This way they can conserve their 1hk and smgs and stuff, but actually give people somewhat of an opportunity to spot them, and their aren't a massive pain to hunt down. Now it would require a bit more skill to use, even though they'll still conserve their massive advantage of recon and sniper rifles.

    Oh and one last thing I'd heavily nerf the damage snipers do with bodyshots. Shouldn't be an issue consider how skilled infils are.
  10. Demigan

    I had read about the "put cloak in weapon slot" idea, but I think you are the only one who suggested (now in clear words) to make cloak a secondary weapon that needs to be switched to in order to increase the time between firing, cloaking and decloaking.
    It is an elegant solution that works, assuming the switching is long enough.

    There is always a question of who needs to adapt. For example there are half a dozen options to protect against C4 fairies and make them easy XP rather than death incarnate against vehicles, yet vehicles will often return the exact same spot and not change a thing while tunnel visioning on a particular area and then be surprised they can be killed again. At best we would need to make the anti-c4 methods much easier to find, make them part of the tutorial, add words in the description of the spitfire, proxy radar and even the movement abilities to signal "hey if you want to protect yourself from C4 you need to do something to make yourself a hard target".

    We need to make sure that both types of players need to adapt to make the gameplay fun for both. How much should Cloakers, both vehicles and infantry, adapt to their opponents and how much the other way around?
    I would say there are too few tools available to detect cloakers and actually anticipate&react to them. You can't ask a player to react to cloakers if they can't detect them at any time. Although the complaint of "well you would have to run serpentine all the time!" Is mute since yes that is what you should do even if there aren't any cloaked snipers around (not your complaint). So we would need to design some more tools to detect cloakers, not necessarily their exact position but just to see if there are any around.
    Ofcourse people have these extremely ridgid idea's about classes, like "but that is detection equipment and all detection equipment should go to the Infil!". But giving each class a different form of detection equipment would be A-OK. Imagine the Engineer being able to deploy a large darklight lamp that warns players that something passes the light (cloaked or not). Or the LA, which shares the saboteur-like ideals of the Infiltrator, to use tripmines that spot anyone who passes through the beam and decloak any cloaker that passes?
    Or the Medic getting a scanner that reveals any player's current position in a cone in front of them with a wire-frame for a few seconds, but the wire-frame does not follow the players if they move?
    Things like that diversify classes despite giving them spotting equipment currently given only to the Infil. Add your idea of forcing cloakers to switch to their cloak and reducing ram damage from cloaked vehicles so they can't OHK players and I think we are golden.
    • Up x 1
  11. DarkQuark


    You are still making assumptions. And I do not recall complaining about cloak really except for as it relates to vehicles. But clearly you pay closer attention to the forums than I do.

    I want it removed from vehicles yes OR made so that it can only be used for travel. In other words a flash would not get to have weapons AND cloak. Maybe one or the other.

    As far as the infiltrator goes there is nothing wrong with them having it. The problem comes in with the client side lag giving them near invisibility as they fire. In that case cloak just needs to be tweaked to solve that. Maybe just an increase in cloak/decloak time or something to that effect. And infiltrators I HAVE been vocal about just due to the cheesewiz gameplay it seems to encourage. But I suspect that would actually also be solved with a cloak tweak.
  12. Demigan

    This is a thread specifically about the Infiltrator and his cloak, not about vehicles and their cloak. Your first response is "these things about the infiltrator are not the issue, the cloak is". How much is it a problem that I assume something and how much is it a problem that apparently you haven't been communicating what you want clearly forcing me to make an assumption?

    The OP just says he doesn't like things to do with Infiltrators. He does not offer a solution, and neither do you. If you don't want me to assume you want to either nerf them or remove them you should communicate what you want rather than say "But you assume stuff!".

    How is this any different than how I approached it before? This was the exact thing I assumed you meant, so my assumptions are correct. You want to remove a weaponized cloak, removing an entire way to play the game.
    Don't remove stuff, alter it so it provides a good gameplay loop. Cloak+weapons does not have to be a problem. The only time cloak and a weapon is a problem is when it gives the enemy too little time to respond to it. So that is all you have to fix. There's no reason to remove weapons entirely and force cloak on vehicles to be travel only.

    And how come tweaking the cloak is A-OK for the infiltrator, but impossible for vehicles?
    • Up x 1
  13. OldSchoolD

    We all know cloak, no ping limit and a client based game doesn't call for smooth gameplay. But to add injury to insult they removed the slight chance of reaction by giving cloaked, potato cpu, high ping infiltrators 1 shot kills, even from afar! The usual opportunists think this is peachy, which is right as rain for them, but as the cancer happily grows, it also kills it's host thus ending all fun for everyone. Instead of getting mad, some are starting to get even. We won't get a fix to the issue until we make it glaringly clear in the stats. Gentlemen, man your railguns.
  14. DarkQuark

    Be combative and argumentative if you wish. You think one thing I think another and that's about all there is to it and it's not worth fighting over.
  15. Scroffel5

    Let me reword what I said so that you can understand it. The reason it is a stupid idea is because coding-wise, it did nothing you couldn't have already done by changing the time it takes you to uncloak. Its a whole lot less work. Lets take your idea and break it down.

    First, you create a new slot to put it into, solely for the Infiltrator. The cloak is no longer an ability but now it is a weapon. You are saying it is in a new weapon slot and not replacing the secondary, correct? Though this isn't very important (but it is), do you have to click to turn off the cloak then switch weapons, or if you switch weapons, does it turn off the cloak while its doing it? Say the weapon switch is 1.5 seconds for that weapon. If the cloak turns off within that time, it takes 1.5 seconds before you can fire. Simple, right? What did it do in the code? Basically, it ran a debounce for that 1.5 seconds, for instance a boolean variable named "CanShoot", and it set it to false. The code checks for that every single time to see if the gun can shoot, and if it is set to true, it allows you to fire. It is set to false, meaning you can not, and after it plays the animation and the 1.5 seconds passes, it sets CanShoot to true again. Now you can shoot. Now the cloak lasts for that long.

    What are the repercussions of your idea? We don't have an ability. We need a new ability. If you are saying that the new slot can be used for other tools or you don't even have to use the cloak, we need a new ability, otherwise an Infiltrator without its cloak is nothing, meaning that cloak is the ability. See where I am going? If we don't add anything, what was the point of changing all that when you could have just slapped 1.5 seconds onto the decloak timer then played a cool energy bootup sound for our weapons being ready to fire?

    That idea is much simpler. Add 1.5 seconds or whatever time is necessary. Heck, make it literally take longer to decloak, as in a longer animation. Make our shield shimmer sometimes. Add a distorted effect behind the things Stalkers sit behind. Make dust particles that kick up from being shot near interfere with the light refraction so that you can see Cloaked Infiltrators. Make spotlights and vehicle headlights illuminate like a Darklight Flashlight. Let classes put down spotlights or triplights that decloak an Infiltrator for X amount of seconds. Those force players to play differently, and its alright! Its so much fun to be a spy! You guys are making me out to be more difficult than I am trying to be, and I'm not. While I don't necessarily agree that the cloak is the most OP busted thing in game, there should definitely be more ways to counter it, things that should have been there from the start. Forcing a player to buy equipment to "specialize" in finding an Infiltrator is really, really dumb. They are just another class after all. Why should you have to spend anything to find them? Shouldn't you just be able to use a trained eye?
  16. Scroffel5

    Here's the way I see it. People complain about Infiltrators having OHK weapons. Well when one is on the Flash, they don't. Their TTK is 8 seconds. Now the person on the tank has an OHK weapon, and they are complaining about hitting the shot. They need 1 or 2 hits. They have a sniper in their hands, and they don't have to worry about drop. They barely have to worry about leading their target, and yet they complain. Now, 2 Flashes, thats kind of an oof. Thats why I say to definitely raise the price and make a specialized hitbox that Flashes should be aiming for. That way their TTK gets much longer if they don't hit those spots, so taking their target out fast and getting good enough to do it while on the move should be the direction Flash combat should be headed. Literally, this nerfs me, as if I wasn't nerfed to begin with, but I'm all for this challenge.
    • Up x 1
  17. Blue_Lion

    You can be at a full sprint and they can hit you if you are not moving serpentine. So it is not a good shuffle it is then been practicing it for years in a system that is easier than shooting head shots in real life. Once they learn how to read movement and lead they start being able to hit more often. Some times the miss but over all just being moving will not save you.

    I am not saying take away the one shot kill or the stealth I am saying that telling people just don't stand still as a defense is complete BS and just dismissive.
    • Up x 1
  18. Demigan

    But it is worth "fighting" over. This is about improving the game for as many players as possible, and at the end of the day your entertainment is one of the most important things to us humans, regardless of that entertainment being collecting stamps, going out for drinks or playing a game. If anything the Pandemic has underscored how important it is to us and that not having access to that can break people apart.

    I try to have a discussion. To put forth idea's with reasons behind it. Then hopefully you tell everyone what you would wanr, why and how it would work out. Unfortunately the idea's you have are about ripping out gameplay elements and leaving players who like it out to dry. There are better solutions, perhaps not for your opinion but they are better solutions for the gameplay of both the users of the cloak and those who fight them.
  19. RabidIBM

    I will say that when I'm doing missions I find infils much more annoying than the rest of my play. Left to my own devices I tend to join smaller fights. I like to think I'm contributing to the faction, and adding a 13th player to a squad fight makes more difference than adding a 97th player to a multi platoon battle.

    In small scale engagents the cloak noise ruins the stealth of the infil. Additionally, the cloak shimmer isn't that hard to see when not much else is moving. Change gears to the big battles however, and I suddenly understand the hate for infils. When there are dozens of guns firing at any one time, the cloak noise is inaudible, and when there are a dozen other enemies to look at, the cloak shimmer is basically full invisibility. Every friggin time I come up on aim on anyone *TINK* dead from some guy shooting through the fight. When I die to any other class I can give a nod to the guy who earned it, but infils get me saying words that might run afoul of TOS. Point is, I get it now. Now that I have spent enough time in the large fights which I normally avoid due to a lack of sense of accomplishment, I now understand the hate for infils.

    Some things which could help would be for nanoweave to cover the head (is there a reason why a helmet can't be made of nanoweave?) and to tweak the cloak/decloak time. I would make small adjustments to avoid wild overreactions followed by overcorrections. Say, add 50 milliseconds to the cloak/decloak time in one patch, then try another 50 in the next patch depending on results. Making the infil class expose themselves a little bit more would probably help.
    • Up x 2
  20. JustGotSuspended

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside..._played_classes_ha_26_eng_20_infla_18_med_13/

    These are the stats you're reffering to?

    As you say we can discard the engineer because it's inflated by vehicles. Infil is second most played class. And this was before the overshield nerf. What "love" have heavies received over the years? All I've noticed were nerfs.

    Maybe the heavy is still the most played due to it's versatility, maybe not. But that's a lot of people playing infil. Because it is the most specialized solo infantry killing class.

    I mean it's fine to have one or 2 dudes crutching the class per fight. But this is a first person shooter, half the battlefield shouldn't consist of infiltrators. We're trying to play planetside, not sniping simulator. The fact the number of infiltrators spiked after they tweaked nanoweave and buffed the class to godlike levels clearly indicates they broke class. The fundamental gameplay mechanics of the planetside franchise were tweaked for the worst. :oops: