So... New Implants Analysis - P2W Confirmed

My statements hold true to anyone matching the description. Facts hurt, deal with it.

Well, I started into the new system with all tier 4 implants, all tier 3 implants, and a few tier 1 and 2. I had 53 ultra chargers. I wound up with 29,000 iso-4. Using 24,000 certs and at least 30,000 iso-4 (converting duplicate implants as I went) I was able to get all the new implants and upgrade everything to level 5 except for safeguard, which I don't really care about, with about 5,000 iso-4 left over.

I've created the aforementioned suggestion on ISO-4 Subscriber Boosts.
https://np.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/62mgba/subscriber_iso4_conversion_boost/

Cross-posting from reddit in regards to your original post:

I empathize with your frustration, being unable to play the game like you did before, which you spent money on. It feels like a betrayal. My goal is not to be flamey or mean-spirited or salty.

But I have several questions:

Q1: Do you need to own all of the implants?

I mean, I can only really justify owning EOD Sweeper and maybe Target Focus. Counter-Intel would be nice, but I can't justify trolling for it. Pretty much, once I get sweeper, I'm done, just because I engineer main. I may upgrade Target Focus for sniping. Therefore, when I look at your calculations, they seem intimidating.
But when I boil it down to what I actually intend to derive from the system, I don't see myself having a problem.

Q2: Was the previous charger system fair to people who didn't pay money or farm for them excessively?

Was it fair to new players who didn't even know what this complicated nonsense was, and never really had it explained to them?

When I joined, I asked my outfit members about it, and then asked some people I knew were pretty good at the game.

The answers I got varied from "Don't worry about it, its not important" to "If you've got chargers, turn it on when you need it or you're having a hard time" to "Its just a giant waste of time and doesn't really affect anything."

As I consequence, I never really did much with it. I converted and combined a few, then largely left it alone. So I got 10k ISO-4 for basically doing nothing with the implant system. I've also seen accounts of people having too much ISO-4, and not enough certs to get the implants.

Q3: Willing leading a reddit crusade to get people to cancel subscriptions actually extend the life of the game?

Or will it result in persistent long-term revenue holes that will cause them to look for more revenue through cash sales, i.e. generating even more implants in subsequent phases, which is I believe one of your stated concerns.

To be clear, you may not be trying to get others to cancel subs, but you're stating that you've done so, and by generating this much salt, you are creating an example. You are endorsing a behavior that goes beyond simply stating your opinion, and is arguably counter-productive to your intent.

Q4: As a player, are you comfortable with that, and do you accept your distributed responsibility for that potential outcome?

This is just a standard form question that I posit in such situations (Grimdark > 2/10, Impact > 6/10)

Not trying to be mean. But you've crossed into 100 upvotes on a non-****post. We'll never see the subscription data, but if it trendlines negative, responsibility has attached.

Only one useful implant for pilots and its massivly overpowering counter intelligenc

X-posting my response :

No worries, mate. It's a rational and thought-out post with some valid concerns that need to be addressed. So, let's begin.

1. No, I don't think I'll need all the implants. I can easily live without "Ammo Printer", cause I seldom live long enough to run out of ammo . I can totally do without "Assimilate", because I'm just not that good. "Minor Cloak" is a joke, and if it wasn't stepping on class ability toes, I wouldn't give two ***** about it. That said... I have very broad playstyles, and can easily see myself using "Battle Hardened", "Catlike", "Counter-Intel", "Focus", "Regeneration", "Safe Fall", "Sweeper HUD" and "Vampire". Now, sure... I don't have to upgrade them all to the last level. But I certainly want to get at least "Focus", "Catlike" and "Vampire" that far, so I'm looking at a fairly steep hill to climb.
2. Honestly, I can't speak to the fairness of the previous system. All I can say is that, as long as I've been playing, I've been subscribed, and I never felt an energy shortage to run the things I wanted. I got by just fine on base Charger drops (had like 150+ when the new patch went live) and I never felt the need to purchase ANY implants with cash or certs. As it stands, I might have just enough certs and ISO to get my main back into something resembling the implants position it was before the update (although it'll be a lot cert-poorer). But on my alts? Not a chance in hell....
3. Let's be clear - I love Planetside. I feel I have supported it well as long as I've been playing. And I feel totally betrayed by the actions of the devs. They've taken away stuff I feel I've already earned, and now they're telling me to pay for it AGAIN. It's not my fault that they can't monetize appropriately, despite discussions on this very topic having taken place numerous times over the past few years. The fact that they can't monetize and otherplayers don't pay is no reason to screw ME in the ***. So yes, I cancelled my sub and I DO encourage those that feel like me to do likewise. The devs have demonstrated time and again over the past few years that they have ZERO interest in listening to the community. Maybe they'll listen to the impact on the bottom line. Am I concerned that this might shorten the life of PS2? Yes. But equally, I cannot support the direction the devs are going either. I'd rather that PS2 died, than have it limp along, descending further and further into P2W and terrible design until even the memory of PS2 is a tainted, reprehensible joke. If the devs come to their senses and make this implant system more reasonable, I will be the FIRST to resubscribe, for sure. And I will go back to recommending people try it out. But until that time? No. I won't spend any more money, nor can I honestly recommend PS2 to others.
4. Do I accept responsibility for potentially killing the game, or whatever? No, absolutely not. The DEVS are responsible. They have ignored and mistreated the community for far too long, and it's come back to bite them. They have ignored major issues, ignored proper monetisation and forced unpopular things onto the community. As a result, their playerbase has dwindled and, instead of taking a good hard look at the reasons, and potentially amending those, they just keep shovelling out NS weapons like there's no tomorrow. Well, there might not be. And it'll be their fault, not mine. Cancelling my subscription is literally the only bargaining power I have in this relationship, and it seems to be the only language that they might understand. So, yes - I'm perfectly comfortable with having done so, even though I feel regret that it was necessary. And no, I take no responsibility. "On their heads be it" and all that. I saw these problems coming LONG before the new system went live, and even I didn't anticipate just how bad they'd actually turn out to be. I'm not "leading a campaign", I'm not telling anybody how to feel. All I did was run the basic math and say "This is what they've done. I'm not OK with it. What about you?" To each, their own.

For all just checking the forums, to summarize the first comment of this thread
Poor conversion from previous implants and energy charges into iso4
High wall payment even for veterans players, almost infinite wall for new players or characters
Overrpriced packs of new implants, either with certs or DBC

I totally agree with the conclusion
THIS GAME IS OFFICIALLY AND HOPELESS PAY TO WIN

I gonna call the devs AND producers with a word way worse than women selling their bodies for money
POLITICIANS

Would not be surprised to see an adjustment in a very very near future.

I very much like the system itself. Upgrading the stuff you like, not horrible recharge system, just equip and mix it up. I mean I haven't used a single implant or chargers, ever, bar running out of energy once on regen and never bothering with it again so I am pretty much set at this point BUT a new or half-newish player is going to have one hell of a road ahead.

That said, you get 9 implants per 750 certs which is more than I expected. Even if it is RNG.

So a very simple fix would be to increase the ISO per implant.

One thing I won't expect them to do is making it a cake walk. If you can just play for one day and get maxed out, what's the point?

Silver lining though; Minor cloak does indeed have a minor impact.

Think my biggest concern is going forward every time new implants are introduced we'll have to play the RNG lottery to get them.......the sooner this goes back to the drawing board the better.

I logged on for the first time in a week or so and find all this 'stuff'. Concerning, to say the least. I had a full set of Level 4 Implants (I think) and in some cases multiple duplicates (because of the silly random system when acquiring them). Plus, I had ALOT of power packs especially Super ones + probably significant current battery power too. All this on both my main played Briggs characters.
Also, bearing in mind a lot of my implant related stuff (both implants and battery power) were purchased with CASH. I've always done this 'cause I've always used the certs I acquire for 'upgrading' weapon & vehicle traits.

So, my concern is... Of what I HAD... what have I been given as a replacement? I'm starting to get the impression from the cursory reading of your original post and various others that I've been royally shafted. I'm going to put a time frame on it. Gonna give it another month to see what transpires. Gonna log a support ticket for a breakdown of what I had prior to the changes and what I've got under this new system. Then I'll make a decision on whether this is fair & reasonable. If I don't find it satisfactory, I'll think I'll be joining you on the 'I'm outta here bus'. Which would be a shame for SOE (not because I'm a great player or anything) but because I SPEND DOSH. When my DBC gets low I just buy a 10,000 pack... A lot over these last few years have been purchased by me. Hopefully, for SOE's sake I'm not about to say 'ciao baby'.

Haha... just read some of the other post in this thread... hilarious. It's not about whether we 'buy into the scam' or 'whether we deserve to get burnt'... It's about SOE making money out of people. I'm all for them selling stuff for me to buy into. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to Dev & maint. the servers. If, however I feel I'm getting TOO shafted then SOE loses... not me I just SPEND my money somewhere else. Simple. I have lots of 'hobbies'. This 'seems' like this one is coming to an end. When people like me jump off the band wagon all the players that don't support SOE with cash will end up with a tacky, low pop, poorly maintained, prone to hackers, inadequately GM'd inconsequential mud hole... Just like Planetside 1 went in the end.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/pc-game-update-3-30.245265/#post-3454354

So it's suddenly more engaging and rewarding if...
...everything I had is taken away from me
...I get no replacement or points back for all I had
...combat doesn't reward me with implants anymore
...I now have to chose to either use certs on a *maybe* implant gain OR something actually useful, like engine upgrades for vehicles or other basic stuff
...suddenly it's possible to equip TWO implants at once all while the new implants are already two old ones made into a new one
...some implant types are missing in the new system for no stated reason whatsoever

What's with the things you previously posted: The "Combined Arms Initiative" ? Suddenly here comes the Ion Cannon and a new implant system. You know, you could always fix bugs ahead of implementing stuff that, as far as I recall, no one asked for and that's also NOT URGENT FOR THE GAMEPLAY.

And because it's pay to win now: Just implement a red button for purchase already that launches a nuke at a target location, annihilating all enemies within a targeted area (magically not harming your own faction), that plays your faction's victory tune after the explosion and then spawns NPCs on top of you enemies corpses to taunt and teabag them and disappear after that.
If you think the new implant system was a good idea this way then I know you think people will want this suggested nuke, too. Come on, now that there's an Ion Cannon ! Do it !

If you think that the ridiculous amounts of money or certs that you'll have to spend to unlock all the implants or even a single rare, here's a fun fact. An exploit with VR training allowed players to unlock all of the implants, which is why VR is shut down right now.

And I have a feeling that DBG may not be able to roll-back all those people who exploited it without rolling back...EVERYTHING since the update and before they locked down VR.

So not only do the new implants cost a ridiculous amount of cash and certs but a bunch of people got them all for free...and unless there's any word from DBG...they may get away with it too.

750 certs (for a gamble no less) is a lot for people still working on their progression.

The previous system had the timewall BS but it was tolerable because I knew I'd eventually get the implants while still playing normally... Now I have to put a long pause on getting essential upgrades/gear (or even starting to cert vehicles) just to fight RNG. Not to mention I only received ~4,000 ISO-4 on my BR75. ~2,000 on my BR52. Dunno how far that'll take me if I pick just 2 implants to max.

Pay to Win has a lot of grey area, and this is treading deeply into it.

I've played a game that employed this kind of cashgrab. It was the same timewall crap, and one of the bonuses was a flat damage bonus for primary weapons. Took me several months to get to the 6% damage bonus, and then the game shuts down. It doesn't matter how much of a boost it is or how long it took to get there without being a wallet warrior, for several months high paying players were dealing more damage. Just because my disadvantage was temporary, doesn't mean that makes it okay. The same applies here in PS2. (To be clear: the F2P model of money speeding up progression is fine, and is not the same as entire features with several month or more timewalls that are instantly bypassable with cash. It's a long denounced practice that apparently no one learns from.)

As awful as it sounds though, it didn't stop my progression. It passively produced it's own specific upgrade material at a steady rate. The biggest issue I have is that I am forced to not cert things that expand my experience if I want to partake in an advantageous feature.

This is one of the biggest signs of a failing game. If they cannot understand that compromising player experience/retention compromises revenue, then we can't help them.

I knew before hand that I should remove my implants and save my chargers and farm certs before they come out with this patch. And guess what I only spent less than 10k to get all but the two rares ones which i don't care about and maxed all the implants out already the same day. People should plan ahead before a patch comes out then you wouldn't be in this predicament and crying about DBG making things to hard to get when its not really a pay to win game.As long as you can buy stuff with certs its not pay to win unless you be an idiot to trust real money on a RNG that is in game. Better off spend that money at the casinos.This game requires skill and tactics to get stuff done,But if you a lone wolf then no skill required unless your aim sucks.I don't see anything in game that i can buy were you can buy with certs that i can instantly win a one on one or a big fight without having to put the hard work into it.

TLDR version: "I'm sitting on my certs and got lucky on RNG for implants. I'm comletely delusional on how many certs new and free to play players have available and don't care because everything is fine because I claim it."

Even more TLDR: Special kid talking.

Stopped playing PS2 because this just feels like theft and bullshît. The game gets a 2 month deadline to fix implants. No positive change = uninstall, bye forever, negative online rating. Is it so hard to not completely fućk up everything as a dev ?

System is P2W and a blatant cashgrab.

The other side of the argument is that PS2 has been accessible to the point where there really is no need at all to spend any money on the game. That in itself cause serious cash flow issues. Now they have something you could call a grind(a fairly mild one as far as F2P games go) and even if you spend RL cash on the game there is still that RNG factor.

Previously you just had to play the game and, boom, implants just appeared. Some people seem to claim they "earned them implants" yet in reality they simply just went about their normal play session. There were no extra effort involved. Some even claimed it be P2W because you couldn't run the highest tier implants 24/7 on a F2P account without cranking out some seriously high quality farming.

Now the cost is front-loaded and personally, I love the fact I do not need to bother with energy and getting chargers.

Kinda blows me away with how much the game actually lets you do without dropping a single solitary cent into it. Most other games would probably throw a limit on BR and certs you can earn. F2P does not mean it is a free game, it means it is a free game where you either accept things wont go as fast or support the game you play. As mentioned, as far as grinding go, PS2 is pretty generous with the ways you gain exp from. There is a not a single thing a F2P can't do that a paying player can.

SOE/DBG initial mistake was making it this easy as it is much harder for players to accept an increase in difficulty than the devs letting certain restrictions go.

Really, if anything the game just got A LOT better for me after recent patch. I did not spend one cent on it (except Membership, which I still think Devs deserve).

Being able to equip 2 implants at the same time (and them being top tier) is a massive boost for me. Before I had all top tier implants but never used them due to big energy drain, now I can use max tier without any worries and they have extra abilities on top!

Seriously, I understand that some people were very unlycky so far in RNG roulette but all people I talked with got at least some interesting implants they use and enjoy. Personally, I never used Battlehardened (I have it) and I think the game is perfectly playable without it tho I mainly play Infil and Engi. Sure, I would love to have Counter Intel but I can live without it now and it would make me drop Targeting or Catlike which I love and will use most often on my Infil.

IMO main problem to be addressed is ISO-4 income and there are many hints (made by Devs) on Reddit that they will add some reward/drop system Soon™. I also do understand that they had to make it a cash grab for now for reasons any sane person should understand.

I still think that if you have to mess around with a system that was working fine to do a "cashgrab" or whatever, you're doing something very, very wrong. People who are saying that F2P players should shut the hell up because they get so much of the game unrestricted seem to forget that the servers would be a wasteland without the F2P crowd.
Under the old system you atleast had to have a strategic approach to implant use. The new system renders anti infantry explosives pretty much redundant is what I'm noticing and I'd be stupid not to use the explosives detection implant in one of the two slots on most builds.
I have seen a friendly minor cloak HA for the first time yesterday, it just left a sour taste, such a goddamn mess for a few dollars more. I got lucky with the catlike implant and its hilarious but all things considered, what a mess, what a goddamn mess you made, what a shamefull display indeed.

I never felt so scammed on a videogame like now. I mean, lots of devs fail to reach my expectations and thats kind of my fault (sometimes). But on this case, they just used a community claim about something wrong (energy system) and made something even worse. I wont take that "people asked for this!" big fat lie.

From a revenue perspective, this overpriced model is just a short term cashgrab. GameBreak basically FORCED all players to spend Certs or DBC in order to keep a competitive status they have already earned by invested time and money on it. Players who had high tier implants and lots of energy saved, have now to invest AGAIN in order to remain competitive. I really couldnt care less about the ISO currency you "converted" us without asking since with the new stupid crate model you will get stupid amounts of duplicates in order to upgrade all the good implants.

From what I know about the company behind Planetside 2, they wont take a step back on the overpriced crates, but maybe they will give extra certs for those who pay for membership or some bullcrap like that. Again, its all about making money for them.