So... New Implants Analysis - P2W Confirmed

Wait......the CEO did change recently...am i right? And the CEO was where before? EA Games....and where else?....Pay to Win handyapps......i think we know.....

Normally these sorts of threads are a chore to plow through but I'm finding this one quite entertaining.

So...any numbers around how many certs to get all implants ?

Since it's a lottery, potentially eternity. Just pulled a 3rd deluxe implant pack with certs, all duplicates. I don't need that crap, I never used implants before the update so I had about 33,000 ISO points from leftover stuff I guess. I've maxed 6 implants and still have 15,000.

You'd think they could at least include 1 guaranteed nonduplicate in the deluxe pull, I want a cert refund but that's very unlikely to happen.

Let's ignore the noob for the moment. Also keep in mind that with the new implant system you absolutely aren't supposed to unlock and upgrade every single implant. This becomes especially true when the next wave of implants will hit the shelves.

There's 12 implants
2 of them you get for free. I'm not certain if they even drop in implant packs.
There's 2 rares, 4 uncommons and 6 common implants. Drop chances, although perhaps not accurate anymore, are displayed here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/5wmomz/new_implant_costs_drop_rates_based_on_data_from/

As you can see, commons have around 15% drop chance each, uncommons 2% each and rare's 0,056% each.

Now for some statistical analysis, which isn't my strong suit and can easily be misinterpreted/isn't always as intuitive as you expect.
say we have 3 implants. One implant has a 50% drop chance, the other two have a 25% drop chance. On average it would take 4 tries to get the "rare" one's, and it's just as likely you get it in the first try as in the last try. Ofcourse it says "on average", so it's not certainty. In those 4 tries it's extremely likely that you get the non-rare one's. If the other rare one drops, the chance on the other rare doesn't go down so you would expect to have all 3 implants in around 4 tries. So the only thing you would have to look at is how many tries it takes on average to get the rarest of them all. Note that this isn't proper statistical analysis I'm doing right now but it takes too much time to enlighten myself on the subject enough and do the calculations.
So you have a 0,056% for the rares. That's a chance of 1 in 1786 tries on average.
You get 9 "tries" per 750 resources, or 83,333 resources per try. So you would have to pay 148.833 certs on average to get them all.

To put that into perspective, I've personally spend 64 days and 5 hours with a nice average of 319 XP a minute on the game, and have a total of 138.280 certs earned. Not even enough to buy all implants! But let's put it even more into perspective:
Upgrading the Lightning tank to full takes 35.575 certs. Harasser? About the same. MBT? About the same, but with +/-10.000 or 20.000 extra certs for the top-guns...

PS2 has many many things to cert into, and it's simply unfeasible to unlock and upgrade everything. Most of the rare and uncommon implants aren't necessary, in fact the basic target focus level 1 is already one of the best and universally good implants of the bunch and you get it for free, and with just the common implants you can make more than enough viable combinations to go up against anyone. Most of these implants don't need level 5 to work, level 3 or 4 works fine, which cuts the necessary ISO4 to upgrade them and with it the Cert requirements in half or less than 1/4rth if you only go for level 3 implants.
Also... This was the first wave of implants, there's a ton more that might make it to live, increasing the cert cost to get them all and upgrade them all. Is that a problem? No! Veteran players have long ago asked for a cert sink, and this is it. It's viable without having to put too much into it, and if you do run out of things to cert the implant system offers you that cert-sink you want.

For me I am pretty much going to ignore the implant system. There are two free ones, and I'll stick them in every load out I have (They should add them as default for all load outs so new players have them already setup). The benefit for spending certs on weapons/vehicle/suit upgrades seems much larger than any benefit to spending certs on implants. On top of that I know what I am getting when I spend certs on a weapon. The PS2 devs added the Try Now button on weapons so people had a good understanding of what they were paying for, the implant chests seems entirely backwards from that philosophy.

Perhaps in a few years, or if something changes again I'll buy some implants, but for now I can't see myself spending valuable certs on the possibility of getting a small buff, when I can spend those certs on a guaranteed small buff.

It's all about cortium...

Got a question about that one. I run regen 3 or 4 on everything (that was my priority) but having another slot I stuck sweeper HUD in it on one avatar.

After a battle the other day I was trolling around an empty base trying to find explosives and I got within 1 metre of one according to sweeper HUD but I couldn't see it and it didn't go bang. This was in the open on flat ground so it wasn't above me or on a ridge or anything. No tunnels running under the base either.

Could the implant be bugged or am I just not understanding the notes correctly?

Does the sweeper HUD report on frinedly explosives or just the other kind?

I just logged in for the first time in about 5 months today. I saw what they did to implants, said I'll keep an open mind. I get into the game, cool, I have over 12,000 of this ISO-4 stuff, great.

Now I have no implants. I buy a 3 pack with certs. No Battle Hardened. I buy a 9 pack. No Battle Hardened, but plenty of duplicates. I buy another 9 pack. No Battle Hardened, but plenty of duplicates. That's 1800 certs gone. At this point I shook my head and logged off. Between this and seeing OS is now in game (something that should have never been allowed to come back) and the griefing its allowing, I guess it'll be September or October before I log back in to check things out again.

Thanks Daybreak. You took stuff people already had to make them pay for it all over again! That is a new low, even for this company.

"I'm going to keep an open mind, but when I don't get what I want like righ this instant I'm going to quit".

You bought a 3 pack for crying out loud! That's just wasting certs with the much more efficient 9-pack right there! And even the most rudimentary idea of statistics would show you that the chance of getting BH wasn't large even if we assumed a 1/12 chance (all implants equal chance of dropping). However the information that BH has a drop chance of 2%, as in 1 in 50 implants that drops, should have tipped you off that it wouldn't be that easy.

Additionally you didn't give the implant system any chance. The implant system has many viable combinations and uses, and you just skip by them "cus I want BH".
And if you had put any thought into it you would know that Daybreak did the right thing. The veteran community asked for a cert-sink that they could use, the community asked for changes to the implant system, Daybreak needed something to earn more cash and keep the game running-->which the original implant system was designed for but didn't anymore. So rather than create a new system to earn cash, they overhauled the old one. They created a system that even with as relatively little as 3000 certs would be more than viable for new players (relatively little in comparison to certing vehicles for example), but gave players more than enough goodies to cert for in the long run.
And the versatility of the system is amazing! If you don't get what you want, you still have half a dozen of alternative options to mix and match with and get powerful combinations to enhance your gameplay.

As for this comment: "You took stuff people already had and to make them pay for it all over again"
You just said that you got 12.000 ISO4 from your old stuff. This ISO4 helps you upgrade your new stuff. And if they had given you every implant you already had it would have defeated the entire purpose of the new system. Stop being a little ***** about it! You got more than enough, and earning the certs to get yourself going is childsplay! Litterally! It's a game!

Ya, this system might be a good cert sink for the veterans, who are playing since this game came out, or even before in alpha or beta. The veterans who have endless days of playtime and certs earned.
But i don't want to imagine what a lot of new and fresh players are thinking when they reconigze the grind they have to go through with this new system, or the money they have to invest. Pretty sure this game is struggling with retaining new players, and new players have it hard enough from the beginning. And this new implant system makes it even harder for them. Of course you can play without implants, but who does not want all the toys the big guys are playing with?

That's the biggest problem with most players these days: they want everything now and without effort. Really, there were games where serious stuff had to be worked on for 1 year+, no shortcuts and everyone was fine with it. Now if something is not available after 3 days people freak out.

Seriously, what's wrong with you guys? Isn't the road to greatness the point of any game? Levelling, getting stuff, playing with a new toys every now and then? Personally, if I had everything at once (hell, I don't know even what this 'everything' is) I would prolly not play this game at all. What's the fun in it when I have no idea how to use "big boys toys" properly. If you gave me fully certed Galaxy or Valk I would probably crash it 100m behind Warpgate. On the other hand, if/when I decide to play with Gals or ESFs I will start with stock version and learn to fly first.

Anyway, getting certs is not a problem if you are semi-decent player, anyone saying that they cannot play without BH deserves pity at best. Personally, I never used it and my daily K/D never went below 1.0 (actually after patch it's much, much higher usually).

When it comes to myself, everything is fine. But i'm also playing this game since it came out. Got a BR 100 and a lot of toys i like and want. Of course not everything. I'm just trying to imagine the life of a new player. When i started playing, veterans with all the toys were non-existant, because the game was fresh and new. That's the difference.

I don't think this new implant system will help this game in the long run. But we'll see.

Seriously I've already done the math. To get all things unlocked and upgraded on vehicles you already need immense amounts of certs that you can't even gather if you get to BR120. And the implant system is no different. You aren't supposed to unlock everything. You are supposed to unlock a bunch, then make that work for you.

And this system doesn't cost too much to get going. The basic Target Focus implant at level 1 is already one of the best you'll ever get, especially for newbies who can see how much damage they do against enemies. With 3000 certs into the implant system you have enough ISO4 for level 3 implants where needed and enough implants to make a choice what you want to upgrade. And if you are missing one you want, you can always gamble for it later since the implants you get will be suitable enough.

Ad hominem is a weak way to make your case. Looks like we got ourselves a Daybreak apologist here. 2% chance? Laughable. That means they took all the implants they knew people ran the most and lowered the drop rate to milk the customer base. You're 100% right, it is a game, and a game I logged in to see hasn't fixed the core issues if they're still doing RNG garbage instead of letting people just pay or cert for what they want. I already had what I wanted, I already PAID for what I wanted, and now your justification is Daybreak needs to make more money? They already made the money when they sold it to me in the first place. Must be a weak business model. So guess what? No money from me to Daybreak and 1 less person for you to play against. Not my loss.

I haven't been able to play since the p2w update, every time I open up the launcher, stare at it for a minute, check if the update has been rolled back and close it.
I just can't imagine having to farm and dump ~5000+ certs just to be baseline viable again, it ruins everything that made this game fun on so many levels.

I honestly don't see what everyone is complaining about....

It's a horrible system. That is what is being complained about. I had regen, tried to get regen again last night on my NC. I bought three 9 packs using certs or DBC and did not get a single one... I have 23 duplicates though! This was just to bring me back to the baseline of regen I had prior to the implant patch. Of course I get a catlike though, and will not ever use it on that character as he has not have the currency to upgrade it and I'll never buy enough implants to level it.

On the other hand, I log on my VS who I've played a ton and want to get catlike and level it to 5,. He has whatever the currency is called to do so. So I buy at least 3 more packs, can't get a catlike... but guess what? Multiple duplicates of regen! I bought two packs on my TR when the system first released and also got catlike and vampire, among all other implants but the other 2 rares and 2 ultra rares.

I cancelled my sub and will not be spending any more money on Daybreak Games until this system is fixed and people are refunded appropriately. I'm rather irritated and wish Blizzard would make an MMOFPS already.

I'm not an apologist, I complain enough about what's wrong with thr game. Just because I defend something and have good reasons to defwnd it doesnt make me an apologist. And even if I was, it wouldnt change the truth.

Also aside from BH, which isnt that useful anyway, most of the things you would want are common implants and one is even given for free and completely viable at level 1

The truth is, loot crates are an absolutely terrible system of gambling. Raise the cost, let people make measurable progress towards what they want, even if its slow.

Yeah, Battle Hardened not useful, its why so many people ran it and why they made it an uncommon reward. Of course, even in the Reddit link you posted people are flaming this system left and right, just like in this thread. You seem to be deep in the minority of opinion.