Shotguns and Elitists, Part II

Select accuracy tab, all players. Right there at #7, GundemDakka with 36.667% accuracy.

So, good, I see that we are more or less on the same page. Shotguns aren't OP but they are highly limiting for their kill potential. But I also say that they aren't necessarily "easy" to use either, which is where these discussions primarily differ.

As I've said, there are several factors that make shotguns rather an ***-pain to use against skilled players. Which is why specifically these threads have focused on the term "elitists", when discussing players who are legitimately good at what they do but still whine about shotguns. Those factors, you can read both of the threads if you want, but Iridar51's video about semi-automatic weapons still best demonstrates the issue.

Of course, none of these threads have ever been about whether shotguns are OP or UP in the first place, more about how the elitist community treats them and their users. It's not like I care about what some random PS2 streamer thinks of me for using a shotgun, I simply noticed a trend while watching streamers and pointed it out. I'm not going to stop using them just because someone called me an noob for using one.

Also, I apologize for my caustic responses, I know it's very unprofessional of me and normally I try and stay away from insulting or even swearing in general, unless it's a light-hearted one with obvious context. If you think any less of me for it, I concur. I do hope you can look past that and try and see my arguments for what they are.



And on an unrelated, but still related note, Hailstorm is actually good? I mean, that confuses me, if it's the worst SMG, but also still a good gun, but then SMG's are mediocre at the same time, is it actually good or is it still bad? I ask because I've been thinking of picking up an SMG for a while on my TR, but I've been hesitant since I heard TR SMG's are real bad.

SMGs are all very good guns, mostly because they're actually accurate with hipfire and have some fairly good ttks across the board at close range, provided you can aim, and some are actually fairly effective up to around 30m (the NS SMGs and the Cyclone). The movement speed you get with hipfire is very hard for bad players to track, which makes them great weapons for killing a lot of players quickly on live server.

Grue may I add to the cancer? Ever since renuse banned us from reddit and yell. I no longer have an outlet for my frustrations and it's affecting my game. @Gundem you think you are good enough? 1v1 me skrub. Jaeger or Test.

I'd actually love to be playing at all, but low and behold, little douchebags restarted my PC while I was formatting my hard drives.

Currently my PC is in the ER ward I set up in the middle of my office, undergoing emergency BIOS transplant.

RIP in the spaghettis, never forgetties

Reinstalling OS shouldn't take too long?

Normally yes, but my Windows disk **** itself at the same time, so currently I'm checking a new 16GB USB for any bad blocks, but it takes ******* fooreeveer for that.

Also, a terrifying new side effect appears to be that USB input causes my MOBO to crash, even doing it while in my BIOS. Resetting my BIOS seems to have helped but it's done it once before, so I can't be sure. I'm just praying to Vanu at this point that my MOBO isn't dead.

#Random Post.

I think your pc will be just fine, considering you were formatting hard drives anyway. Safe mode until you install OS, perhaps.

Anyway, interesting thread. I just gotta ask though, and I'll quote your op.

Are you trolling? I've never quite seen a thread like this; you are saying that shotguns are inferior and you try to shame good players for using whatever weapons.Then you talk A LOT about stats, while still trying to shame "elitist" players.

I've only rax'd one shotgun, the Jackhammer. And I vowed to never use it again, because **** shotguns.

Btw, if your accuracy is so good, you should go for headshots man. Sure, your accuracy ratings might drop a little, but your kdr and your kph will probs increase. Also it feels nice to shoot mans in the head instead of trying to rax a weapon with high accuracy.

PC seems stable after I swapped to my SSD, currently installing Windows Via USB boot I whipped up. So hopefully everything will be fine.

As for OP, I guess it's a little cryptic, but here's the rundown: I find it ******** when people call shotguns noob weapons when they themselves refuse to use them. For this specific post, I was targeting the SMG, considering how much easier it is to use an SMG then a shotgun, but how the same people say using them is okay.

I never intended to shame anyone for whatever weapon they use. My intent was to point out how absurd it is to demonize shotguns for ease of use, while also condoning the usage of SMG's. I suppose I might have been a little too thick when laying on the satire...

And like I've said before, the usage of my own personal stats serves as more of a safeguard rather then a supporting point of my argument. I anticipated many people dismissing my argument altogether with the simple notion of "Just another shotgun ****ter, mad cus bad get gud", which frankly happened a lot less then I expected.

As for my own personal aim habits, I try and aim for headshots, but TR LMG's aren't exactly conducive to consistent headshots. For the one gun with a consistent recoil pattern, the TMG-50, my HSR is like 36%(Out of my like 11 kills with it ), so I hope that's indicative of my performance with it once I've actually purchased it.

I also recently purchased a mousepad, before my mouse was on an old, dented, scratched wood desk surface, so perhaps once I've actually gotten a chance to use it It'll help. But right now my main focus is getting my PC not-dead

If you really want to test your accuracy and headshot ratios, then I would suggest using the NS-15M or the Bull. Both are very accurate up to long ranges, with almost no horizontal recoil.

People "demonize" shotguns because it sucks to outplay everyone around you, until someone walks up and 5%'s you with a shotgun. Shotguns, across all first person shooters, are considered "power" weapons. As in, YOU DON'T GET TO SPAWN WITH A SHOTGUN, because it's overpowered. As in, they only spawn on certain maps, in certain locations in certain timers. You see where I'm going here. Shotguns, are op.

Yeah, getting a mousepad should help a little bit. Lmao.

Accuracy is a bad stat to be using Gundem, I'm sorry.
Looking at things like your KD for instance, I would hazard a guess that by lowering your accuracy and firing more often instead of holding off firing until you have higher accuracy despite COF that you would perform a lot better.
There's a reason why most (all-round) top people run an accuracy rating from around 30 to 33%, because they will fight in any scenario and will not hesitate to fire at long-range targets.

Accuracy is used to achieve something. In most FPS's it's "murdering digital characters". So you can have an accuracy of 100%, but still suck at the game simply because you put too much effort into hitting everything and too little effort into murdering some pixels (BTW I have a dead pixel on my screen and I blame you!)

Frustrating yes, but it's pretty normal for auto guns to grant low hp victory than others due to threshold effects of high damage per shot. With auto guns you have way more granularity. This is just as valid with sniper, scout or battle rifles.
Had the shotty user been wielding a gun equivalent to yours, you might have lost against him having 50% still, because in the 5% case he might've been unlucky on the pellets spread on his previous shot for all you know, and 220~260rpm is slow compared to your 524~909rpm primary.
Or you might've won with 50% left yourself because his pellets spread was unlucky (if a bit too far off), or because you were moving too fast (like crouching in very close CQC) when he fired the otherwise killing bow.
Shotguns aren't overpowered in the slightest, though yes, they negate aiming skills at closer ranges, because of what pellet RNG does. RNG lowers game depth, and competitive-minded players hate RNG by nature, because it may sabotage all that experience has taught them, negating its worth. Obviously you're not going to be happy if your 2000 hours worth of gameplay goes down the drain.

It's an entirely different universe, but RNG is the very reason why a game like Smash Bros on the Wii console has had no competitive scene, while the extra-old Gamecube version of it is still thriving: on the Wii version, characters randomly slip and become unusable, negating any skills.

In fact PS2 shotties are probably underpowered, and there's too many models (1 pump action, 1 semi-auto too many) considering the limitations to that archetype in PS2, especially in light of the excessively similar playstyle their close range entails. Though yes, they do have a niche where they may perform well.

The only shotguns which are "overpowered" in PS2, in my opinion, are MAX shotguns, and to a much lesser degree shotguns on a HA. "Overpowered" because the RNG nature of shotguns means that over a longer period you're going to level the odds of the RNG, thus reap the benefits of higher theoretical dps.
MAX and HAs both have higher survivability than a standard infantry class, which helps in that regard.

For the record i don't even use shotguns so much myself (probably less than 1000 kills on 2 different factions combined when i've unlocked 8 directive guns), and i don't like to play with them, except baron, or slug auto shotgun, as I like having a bit more effective range than 8~10m.

True, but you can also look at my LPK to determine whether I pad my accuracy or not.

The reality is that my K/D is so low because I play hyper-aggressive(Sort of like a guy who main'd shotguns for 2 years... huh) and it puts me in the line of fire too often.

I also tend to lone-wolf a lot, so I lack the massive advantage of constant dildar spam. I swear if I had a pocket infil my KD would be 3x that, the depth of aiming increases so dramatically when minimap prediction comes into play.

I mean, for all the guys with 7+ K/D, how often do you see them without a radar beacon somewhere close by, always being replaced whenever it goes down?

Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's a side-effect of teamwork that I choose not to benefit from. So my fault, really. But I digress.

In fact, actually, I think teamwork aspects is what I'll make Part IV about

The fact that I read your post and subconsciously identified your thesis bothers me...

Other than that, I think this excellent analysis that anyone should point to when the topic is brought up. I sincerely hope that elitists will finally shut up after reading your post, but I doubt it; they'll probably move the goalposts somewhere else.

At longer ranges does the shotgun have RNG with the pellet spread. But for most of the effective range of a shotgun (the range where you can reliably do a 2 or 3-hit) RNG is barely a factor. In fact, RNG will only dictate if you'll hit that extra pellet or not, while your aim was perfect at CQC.
Have you seen Iridars video for instance? He fires in CQC, and his aim is just off, a teeny tiny bit, and already every pellet with the exception of one or two misses with each shot. He loses the battle.

Contrary to popular opinion, shotguns in PS2 require more aiming skill to pull off, since you'll need perfect aim and picture-perfect shots on your opponent to kill them within the time your enemy can and will kill you.

To recap:
RNG starts playing at longer ranges and increases your TTK above that of automatics.
In CQC you need perfect aim and timing to score hits, RNG will only be your detriment if it decides that a pellet or two misses despite the aim and you need a shot extra to kill.

The MAX shotguns are all slightly worse than it's infantry counterparts, but you can carry two and you have a ton of health. This is the only reason why the NC MAX can actually benefit from the RNG at longer ranges. You spray so many pellets and have enough survivability that you are more likely to kill your enemy anyways... Until he gets in real CQC and you'll need that picture-perfect aim again.
NC MAX's also suffer from long reloads and spending too much ammo per player kill. The VS and TR MAX's just walk in a room, hold the trigger and try to look at people, scoring multiple kills per magazine. The NC MAX will get that kill... But will often have spend a lot of his small magazines, bringing him closer to the vulnerable reload phase.

Bump, 3 pages, stat!

Doctor, it's alive!