2 Orion Myths Debunked

The general conclusion is that mostly NC and some TR players want Orion to be nerfed to the ground because VS CANT! ABSOLUTELY CANT have any no.1 weapon in any class. You can have best weapons possible, but God forbid VS has something equally good! Poor kids will blame all their failures on one weapon in whole VS arsenal. I have an idea... L2P or come to Vanu.
We will see how you gonna sing after loosing xx times to guy with hilarious vertcial recoil which makes even biggest noobs score random headshots with 200 dmg weapons or to ppl who can shoot hours after ammo in our op orion is long gone.

You got killes by a guy with orion 10 times in a row? Thats perfect, hes better than You. Most of you cant simple comprehend this and you are coming here to whine for better weapons for yorself and for nerfs for others. But thats mentality typicall for 12 year old kids.

I meant the Orion, not the Carv. Sorry for the mixup.

Well, too bad for you -- 'controllable' isn't the Vanu way.

Yea, pain mixer recoil is the Vanu way

Bro you have done a **** job of trying to convince anyone of anything here, I see so many logical fallacies in your arguments that its absurd and mind numbing, all the while you stoop to filibustering to help you deconstruct another persons points and arguments to your responses while on a libel level insulting people ... even when they aren't agreeing nor disagreeing with you, just to defend the notion of an extreme position.

Just stop, you could have done a much better job conveying your point with brevity and sound reasoning that explains your explanations, the last paragraph you wrote alone is just laughably bad and an extreme case of selective logic as you've repeatedly applied here.

Not going to continue talking to someone so toxic in their reasoning so dont waste your time responding.

So many logical fallacies = oh wait I'm out of ideas so lets just say everything he/she has said is wrong
Yes, he could have been much nicer, but that does not change the facts of what he's arguing.
I read your lightning gun post, and well, Quake is a completely different game with much faster movement overall, so....????

Orion is a balanced weapon. Yes it is in the highest tier of lmg dps, but it's still outclassed by cqc carbines and assault rifles, along with SMGs. It wouldn't do as well without the heavy shield, while the ARs seem to perform well (especially TR and NC ones). Plus the rest of the vanu's lmg arsenal is greatly outclassed by the red and nc counterparts.. maybe the sva is excluded from that.

That's a cool sig, which movie is it from?

What....
I guess I can't expect you to read the 15 pages of discussion, can I, but could you at least respond to the 75 odd word OP.

It doesn't take words to respond appropriately an to an extremely absurd statement. To say the .75 ADS on the orion is a negative trait is like saying pre-nerf ZOE was underpowered.

Holy mother of all that is holy. Either read the thread or stop quoting random stuff out of context. Let me hit you with something: did you ever play any arena based FPS or even any BF game? Guess how fast they move in those games. Hint it's _a lot_ faster than what ads 0,75x is in this game - especially with shield on.

Now tell me again how hard it is to hit a shielded heavy who is aiming down sights.

0.75 ADS is a lot more important on weapons other than LMGs. Terminus, the new addition to the VS arsenal, is a lot more important than Orion ever was.

Logical falicies equals he she is definitively claiming things to be true without proving them while shooting down other users explained points to win his "argument" so while being pretty rude about it, all the while making notions that are just absurd in his/her explanation; I wasn't trying to claim or prove anything but have been dragged into doing so because apparently people cant just google Quake live, lightning gun and movement speed; the whole lead by example approach...

The lightning gun is a weapon that requires the utmost use of the games movement mechanics (quake live or quake 3), it can be tested for FREE to see if this is true or not... with the LG you especially have to strafe left and right to be used more effectively and when all players are bound to the same movement speeds this is especially true.
In Planetside 2 this applies as well in regards to utilizing a weapon with movement mechanics as movement speeds with the exception of Max's are all constant even while adsing (except with smg and shotguns), gaining a movement speed bonus in any regard can be life and death as tenths of seconds are all it takes to gain an advantage in a fight (in almost ANY GAME not just PS2 and quake is this true), especially while in direct combat where in the Orion gets a blatant advantage in this regard; considering this games movement mechanics in general, lefting and righting will be the best way to dodge enemies in fire fights and having a bonus to this is an advantage.


So does the .75 ads movement speed bonus on the Orion give it an advantage? YES, this can be said of any weapon that gives a movement speed bonus of some kind, claiming that its a myth is just silly, you can test this for yourself with any other game, quake live and the lightning gun being prime examples.

The real question is whether the advantage is notable and meaningful. Take lack of bullet drop for example, an advantage that has practically no impact on PS2 gunplay.

And your comparison of choice is rather absurd.
To give you the "gist" of 14 pages of discussion:
0.75 ADS MS matters yes, of course it does.
However it's also the only outstanding part of the Orion. The rest of the gun is either bog standard for a CQC LMG, or sub-standard. There's also the absence of notable attachments to keep in mind (compensator, Adv Laser/grip, SP/HV ammo, ext. mag).

One of the main myths that this tread was made to deal with was the notion that the Orion is extremely accurate. It isn't. It's an inaccurate bullet hose with the lowest damage per mag for any LMG in the game, tied with the MSW-R, with the accuracy falling in somewhere between mediocre and bad.

So the question that remains would be: Is the 0.75 ads ms enough of a benefit to cover for all the other shortcomings? Maybe.
Does it make the gun OP? I say it doesn't. But then again some do disagree for one reason or another.

You're still QQing about my arguments without pointing out the logical fallacies and "absurd notions" I've made? You realize that you have to PROVE that my arguments are "absurd" and just calling them "absurd" won't make them so? Whining about selective logic without proving the existance of a fallacy supposedly made by your opponent sure makes for a fine argument.

Listen up then. Unless you have something interesting to say on the topic of this thread, just stop posting. Right now the majority of your posts consist of arguments to tone and pointing out that I'm being rude, but you conviniently ignore the reason behind the way I react to you or some people in here. All of this is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion about balance - you whine about me acting like an ******* because this is your last line of defense; you're unable to contribute to the discussion anymore, that's why you focus on irrelevant things like how I behave.

But that's wrong, simpleton. Seriously, can't you comprehend the text you read? I've been using the example of other games for quite some time now and I've already explained why in my previous posts - if you couldn't understand why I'm impolite, then this is a perfect situation for you to rethink it.

I'll say it again, since you failed to prove what is so "absurd" with this argument: player's reaction times are consistent, so if you're able to keep up with your target in games that use higher movement speeds for infantry (Quake, BF3 and so on), then shooting at people who ADS in Planetside 2 is even easier. The differences in relative ADS speeds don't matter as long as the overall movement speeds (running, strafing, ADS strafing) are as low as in case of PS2; saying that they are oh so incredibly significant without giving any proof of it is worth as much as just calling them insignificant, by the way - you can play this tug of war all day. In reality people who whine about them make things up on the go, because they are already below of what we can see in other online FPS.

Is this seriously too hard for you to understand? Ask somebody at your special school to explain this to you.

Did I say it was a negative trait? No, just that its not the maker of OPness that everyone claims it to be.

Like Kryvakryz has said time and time again, the lightning gun comparison brings up another point. Hitting in Quake is highly doable, and with PS2 having lower movement speeds and higher RoF auto guns, It cannot be that hard to hit someone who is strafing. Yes, you may dodge that one extra bullet every so often, but your faster movement costs you accuracy as well.

All this Orion debating feels odd somewhat. I think it mostly shows that the HA class is overly important or overrepresented in the game. To some it seems that the Orion is godly because of the 0.75ads, and while good, it's not worth all that fuss.

I think the best proof of it all would be to talk about Carnage/Terminus. Those 2 guns are very similar, like MSW-R which the Terminus is closer to (769rpm, SPA, 0.5ads), and the Orion which the Carnage(750rpm, 0.75ads, no SPA, worse recoil stats) ressembles.
Who's debating about Terminus and Carnage? Absolutely no one. Why is that? Because no one cares all that much about medics, so there's no one to blow the all thing out of proportion. Yet it would seem that ARs are the best weapons in the game, or so they say on either LA and HA boards.

That in itself is probably more telling about how much prevalent the HA is in this game. That there is the problem (why is HA leading to so many endless debates? What are the numbers? Is it something that should be? Is it because of the overshield? Because of the RL? Because other classes suck?), not the Orion.