Shotguns are Planetside's "Noob Tube"

Nothings really supposed to be though honestly. There's just SMG's that are also supposed to cover that range.

There's a skill involved to getting to that range in the first place though without dieing, and the main counter to it is to kill them before they get that close.

Or, you know, hope they miss. They better hope they are good enough to land the shot, it's pretty much ogre if they don't.

I saw the thread title and figured this was a necro from last year.

Really?!

To add something mildly productive:

How is that different from anything else with this netcode/tick rate? At least a shotgun has a refire time.

Sincerely,
Someone who used a shotgun when they were actually OP

Sorry bud, the term is much older than silly ole MW2. We were using it back in CS 1.3-1.6 to describe primarily auto-shotties, though it was also used for AWPs (1-shot kill sniper rifle) from time to time as well. Can't comment on whether it was used in Quake/UT before that, as I didn't play those.

Alright, I see where you're coming from, but it honestly sounds like you're just giving me the classic argument of "Get Better." It's along the lines of "You should've done this, you should be doing that," without actually having ever been in the situations you're trying to 'fix'. All the aspects of gameplay you've listed are literally impossible to manipulate with this game's low time to kill, coupled with a terrible method of hit detection. I've said that.

Because of how this game handles hit detection, it is just not something you can work on. Other games, sure, but in PlanetSide 2, it's all clientside hit detection, boosted by the fact the server contributes to network lag, being located in one town, with others across the world connecting to other players through it. When you add that to the fact almost every weapon has the capacity to drop a player in less than a second, it means that by the time the game informs them they've even been hit, you've put half your clip into them. They're already dead before they can respond.

Shotguns worsen this. There is just no room to give yourself the ideal situation.

You want to run for cover? You're dead after you've made it to safety. On the opponent's screen, you're still in plain view for another half-second. It's the idea behind the whole "shooting through walls/around corners" thing people love to complain about. Take the time to put yourself in a good position for firing? With how massive these battles can get, you're dead by someone else's hands. The list can go on for quite a while, but when you take the time to actually care, it bites you in the backside.

I'm honestly sick and tired of the "You Should Just Get Better" argument that internet strangers give to other people in the gaming community. If it was that easy, we wouldn't be having weekly discussions on topics each going eight pages long. Something is clearly broken about a game mechanic, and until it's fixed, the only way to effectively combat it is by taking advantage of that game mechanic.

ah, I had no idea.

I know the term predated CS 1.3 by at least a year, as it was used to describe UBGLs in SOF. Nothing in Quake would fit that. Maybe the Redeemer though? Or something from Tribes?

No dude, my words were for encouragement. As I said, it's tedious to keep trying to reach perfection. At some point you want to just enjoy the game. There are indeed many situations where you just can't deal with something. I don't like shotguns at all! I think they're pretty noobish weapons but I've never met a "shotgun f*g" that I couldn't kill, but it's only because I kept trying to improve and took the game too seriously for a short period of time, which is honestly too much work in a video game. Trust me when I tell you that I'm not giving you advice which isn't based on personal experience. I don't do the whole sig thing nor am I a pro at PS2 but I can send you all of my character details so that you can see the progression, which is clear since I don't really have a main and you can see for yourself. Alternatively you can trust me that I went from a steady .6 K/D and getting owned by everyone for a long long time to having my highest BR (not my first nor the best stats) character being over a 4 K/D easily and infantry only, which can be higher if I stop spawning at insanely unbalanced fights or not play messed up all the time.

I always say that I'm just an average player who simply took the time to improve, perhaps a little extra

Well if you expect to be within shotgun distance, use a shotgun. I never use shotguns and the only times I actually have a problem keeping a distance is when I round corners or run into someone in a door. The running around corner thing can often be avoided.

Have I mentioned that I very rarely get killed by shotguns?

If you don't play the way "they" want you to, you're bad. End of story.

Not that much farther, and you still don't seem to understand that a CQC carbine has less of a chance to win against a shotgun than a scout rifle against that same CQC carbine, to put numbers into it: a GD7-F is less likely to win against a Nighthawk at CQC than the Artemis is likely to win against the GD7-F. Do you seriously think that's okay? I don't, I see a HUGE flaw in game design there.

What's the point of the SMGs and CQC carbines then? Because outside shotgun range you can't really hipfire.

Yes, because that's still a carbine. Jesus, how hard is it to grasp a simple concept like this? Let me ask you a similar question: you seriously think that CQC carbine should be able to go toe-to-toe with pure CQC shotties and remain competetive against short/mid range guns at the same time? YOU are the one who proposes ignorant, unbalanced solutions.

You trade some CQC utility for short/medium range utility. Because regardless of it's intended role, carbine ALWAYS gives you more short/medium range utility than a shotgun, and picking one over the other will define your playstyle regardless of what you want to think about it. It's like a difference between x6< bolt action and semi-auto sniper rifle, first one requires only one headshot to kill and the second needs two, but it's more usable at ranges other than long.

CQC carbines are designed to counter threats at short ranges out of the effective shotgun range (15m<), especially the users of mid/long range weapons transiting from exteriors to interiors. CQC carbines were never meant to give you immunity to shotties but they are still a viable option, at least against semi-autos and pump actions (provided the user isn't too skilled). Same thing can be said about those carbines if you're facing an enemy with average ROF but high accuracy gun in medium range - if you had a shottie in this situation, you wouldn't even stand a chance. So in short, CQC carbines are the middle ground: their hipfire was designed for CQC, but unlike shotties they still have access to reliable ADS which is effective outside of 15m range. To balance this out, it's user is most likely to lose against enemy who uses a specialized weapon in range that the said weapon was designed for. This includes shotties in CQC, medium range guns in medium range and long range weapons in long range.

No, I propose that the difference between shotguns and the other guns is as big as the difference between CQC carbines and Long range automatic rifles.

I know we've been off the topic of rocket primaries for a bit, but yeah, Higby made me feel pretty vindicated.

http://imgur.com/TrZZNsM

The main idea behind that post and my original post is about how improving, in this specific case, is an impossibly hard task, when the game's basic coding and game mechanics work against you in every direction, specifically when shotguns are brought into play. It was a post intended to everyone in this thread that something like this is way easier said than done, and that those who keep themselves out of this system aren't suddenly more skillful than those who take part in it in order to stay alive.

Shotguns aren't broken on their own. The game's netcode, the way it makes everything clientside to take stress of the servers, the incredibly low time to kill, they all pile up on top of each other in a way that prevents any decent workaround. When I'm told that I should've done this, or that, or whatever, it's one of the most frustrating things in the world. It just simply does not work that way.

In any other case, yeah. Practice makes perfect.

I encourage people getting better, I like seeing people have fun. Players improve, and they find ways to solve problems they had previously. What we have here though is one huge broken game mechanic made up of smaller issues. Until something is changed, the only effective way to fight fire is with more fire.

Yes but something that supposed to work by nature of logic isn't exactly fun.

It's nice to see that there is actually some decent discussion going on now. (Even though there are still people saying "L2 PLAY NOOB".)

I'm just going to quote what I think is one of the more informative posts, because maybe I didn't state what is says very well in my original post. . .

The difference between shotguns and the other guns in CQC is already as big as the difference between CQC carbines and bolt action sniper rifles in long range. Sniper rifles and shotguns are on the opposite sides of the spectrum.

There is no reason for why the gap should be tightened except for catering to self-entitled automatic rifle users.

CQC carbines are, well, CQC weapons, same as the shotguns, Bolt Action sniper rifles are long range weapons, that comparison is so dumb I don't know why I'm even bothering to answer this (besides, BASRs OHK at any range, so the TTK comparison doesn't even make sense with Sniper Rifles)

A BASR will one shot to the head, just like a pump action will one shot within like 5 meters. They are both utterly worthless outside of their intended ranges, so he's right they are the two extremes of long range and CQC.

You never used a BASR at close to mid range, I see...

And the fact that CQC carbines are much closer to mid-long range automatic rifles than they are to shotguns is still true, and it's really dumb. In a pure 1v1 heads on, a CQC carbine can beat an assault rifle heads on at mid range if he's a bit more skilled than the other guy. On the other hand, at really close range, the gap in skill needed for a CQC carbine to beat a shotgun is MUCH bigger (and it depends more on the shotgun user being ridiculously bad than on the carbine user being good), and we're talking about a range where the CQC carbine is the strongest at.