MBT Secondaries nerfed

To be fair though, Saron was like hip firing a semi-auto sniper with pinpoint accuracy. It was a little easy to do. Much easier than halberd snipes I think.

Ideally I'm guessing SOE ultimately wants AV Secondaries to have self-defense capabilities but 0 offensive AI capabilities. If you want to kill everything, go pull a basilisk. Go pull SPC. The more people that pull basi/SPC-HEAT the more pople who will be countered by AV/AV Specs.

Trying to slowly bump people out of a comfort zone that was instilled through terrible initial balance decisions.

Isn't much better against infantry? You've got to be joking, or you've never used the PPA in the correct circumstances. The PPA can rip through a squad of infantry without even reloading. Given higher ground against infantry at medium ranges, there will be nothing the infantry can do except run.

Yes, you are essentially a 1/2 tank against other armor... but if you want to farm infantry... the PC/PPA loadout is amazing at it.

MBT secondaries should be buffed. They should be the most powerful weapon on the vehicle (within their specialisation, if applicable).
MBT primaries should be nerfed. It should be normal for 1/2 MBTs to switch to gunner when they want to do most DPS (ditto above).

Prowler lockdown could then be buffed to make the driver gun the more powerful when deployed.

Magburner would still need love.
NC dependance on shield would be unresolved.
Tank-terrain interaction physics would be still terrible.

Libs, already on the verge of OP, get an overall buff and a new anti infantry weapon on top.
MBTs, struggling for a niche already (outside of battling other MBTs, go figure), get an overall AI nerf, while their specialised AI weapons still suck.

SOE makes sense once again!

How is making a 2/2 Magrider, that is kitted out for AV (FPC + Saron), take 3 shots to kill 1 single approaching infantryman giving it self defense capabilities? That is a maximum of 2 enemies you can take down without reloading, assuming you hit every single pin point accurate shot directly.

Once again, the NC and TR AV MANA turret wielding engineers are laughing their arses off at the iconic Saron, which continues its meteoric fall from grace. All it will be good for soon is reminding everyone that it is in fact a scale model of Vanus wang (with less potency).

It is safe to say I'm bummed by this upcoming patch. We all know that nothing will change from now until live. Nothing.

I think the buffs and nerfs were well called for.

They can consider buffing the Saron magazine size by 2.
Otherwise its quite fine.

VS and NC will switch to Halberds for good.
TR will just continue using them, not impressed by the feeble Vulcan buff.

How this is good for the game I don't know. Maybe they just need to sell more halberds?

I wasn't expecting anything useful at all. This is SOE, who've consistently nerfed tanks almost every patch if given the chance. Esamir, HE cannons, secondary weapons...

Nah. My expectations weren't high. They're even lower now.

It seem to me that SOE simply uses internal usage metrics to nerf / buff items. If something is used a ton, it suffers the nerf bat, and if something is rarely used (Despite any potential awesomeness) it gets buffed. The Vulcan was nerfed due to it having some insane kill rate compared to other vehicle secondaries, (I believe it was around 300% infantry kills compared to NC and VS combined - dont remember the specifics, but it was massive) ... While I dont agree that they should have castrated it that badly, something had to be done.

As for the Saron / Enforcer nerfs - these are entirely uncalled for. The enforcer is amazing against armor. Duh, it's an anti armor rail cannon, it should be. The Saron is killing too many infantry...? Well that's because it's USED the most frequently. With the Magrider having a miserable primary cannon, the saron is required to stand a reasonable chance against a moderately skilled prowler / vanguard. Ever wonder why the VS uses so many more 2/2 MBTs then other factions? This is why. Unless rolling with an enormous armor column, pulling a tank with a secondary that cannot even damage armor... you may as well drive off the nearest cliff and save a bit of time. As it stands, the VS are the only faction with an ES AI secondary versatile enough to justify pulling.

Now, before I let this post turn into more of an angry nonconstructive blob of text then it already is, I do have a few balance ideas that I think are at least slightly better then those currently on test.

Vulcan - Firstly, rather then restoring the Vulcan to it's previous form... simply give it a default clip size of +5, and another several rounds per +rank of clip size. A maximum of 55-60 seems appropriate. Additionally, extend it (And ALL secondaries, while we're at it) Minimum damage range to 25-30 meters. A round should not start loosing strength before it passes over the edge of the hood of the vehicle it was fired from. In exchange for tightening it's initial COF, increase it's bloom rate after, say... 20 rounds, making the gunner slow it's rate of fire in exchange for not having to reload for slightly longer. The TR faction trait is dakka. Let them have it.

Enforcer - Speaking as a VS / TR, this gun is fine as is. If I had to change anything, give it an earlier damage dropoff - being sniped from a stealth harrasser in the field is nearly as annoying as AV turrets, and there's no trail to track the round by. Hit markers dont help, due to how hit detection can show the thing coming in from any angle. That said, I would be fine leaving it as is, the NC have a beastly tank - tone down the shield a bit, and i'm fine with the rest of it. The NC faction trait is freedom. They express this by liberating other factions' tanks' individual components with the biggest explosions available, delivered as noisily as possible. Let them.

Saron - Given that I only got to experience the original awesomeness of this cannon for one day, I have to say that any further nerfs just leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Really? You want me to use HALF a clip to kill an infantry, and only if he isnt using flack? Oh, only if I have perfect aim, ok... (Yes, I am using the word clip, I like clips, in fact, I named my Magrider Clippy. Deal with it.) The only way I would be fine with this, is if the Saron was given another 2 rounds per reload, plus a cert line for more (+1 per rank would be fine, 4 ranks total... given the COF bloom and the damage reduction, the mag would have to be point blank to unload effectively. If you let a tank get that close, you SHOULD explode. If it blitzed in under heavy fire to blast specifically you... ok, he gets to blow up too. ) The VS faction trait is accuracy... or mobility, or maybe spandex.

Short of an accurate, highly mobile cannon that traps enemy infantry with spandex, the Magrider needs serious adjustment. The Magboost is too short, and requires maximum rank to be even slightly worthwhile, while the primary cannon has SO much drop that it is difficult to use. No, it is not stabilized when mobile - bumps in the terrain are EVERYwhere.
Yes, the mag hovers, but it rocks and bounces around over every hill almost as much as the flash does. The only way to maintain stable fire is to enter third person mode, which is an option for everyone, in every vehicle. With the learning curve for the Mag's primary cannon, this gives the mag the WORST stabilized cannon, not the best. Slightly (very slightly) increased flank speed, another few max kph, and a bit less drop on the primary cannon would be good starting points. NO, dont buff everything at once - dont nerf everything all at once either. Adjust ONE thing at a time, and see where the metrics take you.



TL;DR
SOE appears to nerf things based on frequency of use. People use unique things, unique things are empire specific. Using bland weapons sucks, thus, people will use empire specific stuff. Nerfing cool things is the result of this, stop it.
Also, my magrider is named Clippy.

I think I would.
Remember that formerly Uber OP toy known as the Striker?

I'd say that was pretty brutal.

So far, nothing comes anywhere close to the Magrider nerf. It wasn't just nerfed so hard it became bad, but ended up as utterly nutterly useless. Those who used it did so knowing how ruined it was.

In the end people forced Higby, after he said it was "fine", to actually drive one. Only then did he/they understand just how badly they had handled the situation.

Not once since then has a nerf gone that far.
Not. Once.

for example: rember the road from xenotech to tarwich?

yea after that nerf a mag going JUST STRAIGHT could only climb that hill at 10 kph.

and if you even thought about strafing left or right while going straight, you dropped to strafe speed = i.e. 25 kph

Yeah, it doesn't look like some NC and TR that may not have played back then understand how harsh the nerf was.

I do. I encountered a speed hacking Mag driver today that strafed faster than I could shoot it with my Titan AP. He dodged all my shots from 50 meters! That's how the Mag was before the nerf, right?

Saron nerf is uncalled for. Enforcer is too good, so I understand that. Vulcan needs a lot of love.

I'm glad I prefer Halberd, but I still love Saron and will happily shoot it when I jump in a random's Mag. But now I'll be choosing with Mag I jump in by prioritizing Halberd first.

OHK on the Halberd is much easier than 3HK on the Saron... Way to go SOE? lol...

These secondary changes are messed up.

The Saron didn't need an AI nerf, and I didn't hear infantry even complaining about it or massive farm videos with it. If anything they could've tried to tighten the COF to make it more accurate and competitive with the Halberd.

The Enforcer ML85 didn't need a nerf it was an an example of how you do a secondary right. It was competitive with the Halberd, but at the same time didn't have the same Alpha Striker Advantage or OHK infantry ability allowing for two different weapons both of which were competitive and fun.

The Vulcan, they only slightly buffed the Vulcan but in the wrong ways. Giving it a large ammo pool doesn't make it any less of a piece of crap, and neither does slightly tightening the COF while leaving the max-min damage ranges as short range as they are and having the COF still bad enough that the Vulcan is still bad at medium range. Until they make it a strong competitive weapon at medium ranges there will be almost no reason to use it over the Halberd which is competitive at all ranges which extends to long range fighting while doing a good job at short range as well.

Expecting SOE to understand those arguments (the vulcan one we've been making for the past what, 6 months now?) is just like winning the lottery. It ain't happening unless you're really, really lucky.

It's incredibly sad to see that the tank balance they want to do is more nerfs to vehicles that struggle to find their place in the field, while they do things like buff other things that aren't exactly underperforming. At this point I would've preferred tanks to be like the galaxy: the vehicle SOE seems to have forgotten about. Buffs would be nice, but not being nerfed would be even better, especially when tanks don't need to be nerfed anymore than they already are.

The Hyena Missiles are not intended as AI. I have absolutely no idea what other new weapon you could be referring to.

OT: The Saron was balanced by it's reload. If you spent 2 or 3 shots killing each infantry, it was reasonable. The Enforcer had simply too much damage per magazine, it trivialized armor combat for me when I play NC. At least the Marauder and Cannister are getting buffed and the PPA will still be good.

Yep, speaking as a BR100 VS main / BR35-or-around-there TR hobbyist, BR20-some-NC-with-20k-certs-from-logins (Yes, I like hyphens.)

This Saron Nerf may actually make me quit, oh well, guess Elder scrolls online gets my cash now, I might even buy a few more hats in TF2. Yay hats. (No, not JUST this nerf, but the general nerf-flavored trend leading up to it)

My TR blew around 800 certs on the vulcan - at least I saw the writing on the wall when I saw the roadmap's impending "General Balance" thing and grabbed the halbred when it was on sale the other day. It's the only worthwhile secondary for the prowler now. Kobalt is nice too, but has insufficient versatility at the prowler's typical engagement range.

The Enforcer... yeah, agree with every point.

It wasn't ever -truly- able to do that.
That's just a ghost story told to TR and NC at night.