As a Mag I will die to a Vanguard 4 out of 5 times in a 1v1...

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

I am an experienced and highly certed Magrider pilot. I have experienced gunners. I have the most tricked-out Magrider possible. It doesn't matter. If I am in a true one on one combat scenario with a Vanguard, at least four out of five times the engagement will end with my tank blowing up. That doesn't include "losses" in which I lost the engagement but managed to escape without my tank being destroyed - in which case the odds are even more pathetic.

Why is this? It is because the Vanguard's Shield provides a full eight seconds of near invulnerability - with absolutely zero downside. While this shield is active, the Vanguard can continue to drive at full speed, turn at full speed, and engage with both primary and secondary weapons at full DPS.

Yes, it is possible to break the shield, as it absorbs a flat amount of damage, however, the amount of DPS a single Magrider puts out isn't enough to break the shield quickly - even if all the shots land, the Vanguard still received basically four seconds of invulnerability, all the while, it continues to pound away on you at full DPS.

It is also quite difficult to maneuver away from a Vanguard while the shield is active, as the Vanguard still has full mobility and can easily chase a fleeing Magrider behind any cover that it has attempted to utilize. Also, if the nose of the Magrider is pointed toward the nearest rock in a futile attempt to flee, the primary gun is not putting DPS on the target - making it even less likely for the shield to be broken before the full eight seconds. All the while, the Vanguard is firing away at you at full DPS.

It is precisely this scenario why Magriders are simply no match for Vanguards. At greater distances, Magrider survivability increases, but only because the Magrider is more likely to be able to take cover behind a rock and repair for a few seconds while the Vanguard closes the distance. Regardless, once that Vanguard is within 100m, the Magrider is toast the vast majority of the time in a one on one.

Here are a few solutions that I believe will bring Vanguards back into balance and at least give Magriders a fighting chance to survive in combat with them.

1) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard keeps full mobility and speed, but is unable to fire any of its weapons while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.

2) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 25% speed, and is able to fire its secondary weapon, but unable to fire the main gun while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

3) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 75% speed, but is able to fire both primary and secondary weapons, thus sacrificing mobility for DPS. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

I believe any one of these solutions would go a long way to bringing balance back into MBT combat in Planetside2 . I welcome any constructive comments or suggestions.

Tank you for your time,
Vernei
Ghosts of the Revolution Phantom Guard Executive Officer - Mattherson

I do believe that the vanguard shield is a bit too strong in its current form, but with tanks, more then anything else, it is important that you stick to your niche, for instance if a prowler try to do anything but long range it will get humiliated against any of the other tanks . I can't say for certain how you should drive your magrider as my vanu char is only br 33 or something like that, but when I lose to magriders, it is when they sneak up on me, I over extend in to their territory or they got a secondary gunner and I don't.

I think you should play the magrider a bit like an harasser, your strength lies in being able to decide if you want to take the fight or not, and run away/get to cover if you don't. In a "fair" fight, vanguards would win against everyone, every time.

As a vanguard and occasional magrider driver. Some tips.

1) Your aim should be to make them engage their shield as quickly as possible. Long, long cooldown.
2) If in flat terrain, circle around them forcing them to move constantly, moving tank + turret makes accurate fire ridicilously hard.
3) if in rocky terrain, simply strafe in and out behind cover firing.
4) If enemy armour is expected you want to be rolling the sauron. I know a lot of you think its a joke, it certainly doesn't feel like a joke.

The shield is of no help if the vanguard is in a situation where it can't engage whats shooting at it. Remember its a single use weapon (when its on, its on) with a long cool down. You want to make them waste it. If your trying to go toe to toe with a vanguard, Heat or AP and you've left him the shield to engage in the last couple of shots, you've done it wrong. Your shield is your ability to move. Vanguard has to commit to the fight with a shield, or use it to withdraw (thats 90% of how I and most people on Miller who know what there doing use it).

Also we have the best AV tank, the best counter to the vaugard is infantry AV teams. Bar the highly situational tank shotgun, there is little the VG team can do about more than 2+ infantry targets.

It is in my opinion, only of real use in actual battles (not artifical 1 v 1 fights) to withdraw once your taking a large amount of damage. What I call the '**** they have an AV squad up there, time to go' situations.

Even then more often than not, you've either over extended yourself, and it utilimately doesn't save you, or friendly vehicles are blocking your path of retreat and it doesn't save you.

Edit: oh you are talking about the vanguard... So you only use it defensively? have it ever occured to you to just drive up to the enemy tank, pop it and shoot them? It really is that simple.

No but like a ww1 tank, it cannot advance far beyond its infantry screen. It simply does not have the capacity to engage large amounts of infantry. Its gun is too unstable, its reload time on HEAT and HE too long and even if you are 2/2 in terms of AI your best options are tied with trying to use AV weapons, the Basilisk and the enforcer shotgun mod. All are woeful compared to the marauder, vulcan, proton or even the sauron at times.

Its a distinctly anti-tank tank. Indeed in its AP format its easily the best tank on tank, however neither that nor the shield can save you if your moving into an area with a significant amount of HA or LA and you have advanced well beyond the ability of your own infantry to suppress them, and thus give them good freedom of movement around you.

And take enough damage on the journey back to our lines to turn me into flaming wreckage.

Its not magic, even with level 5 of it. It cannot protect you indefinitely against sustained fire, and the maneuverability of the vanguard is such that, unless you have a clean path back to friendly lines and into cover, it will not keep you alive if your up against half descent AV teams.

Fun fact I noticed recently: A Racer 3 Harasser's cruising speed on level ground is about 100kph. Guess how fast Magburner goes for its half second or so duration.

About 100kph you say? Good guess! Nevermind the rear armor weakness of a Mag when making a retreat. It just can't move around the battlefield in the same way a Harasser can. Non-racer seemed to be around 90 on level ground, which is still crazy fast - as fits its role.


More on topic, the shield is an insanely strong ability, but the cooldown is also extremely long. Of course, this doesn't really help you too much against experienced Vanguards that aren't gonna waste it. It does mean you'll likely need to beat that crew twice to actually kill their tank. Once initially, when they shield to get away/you get away once it's popped. Then again after you (and likely they) have repaired up but the shield is still on cooldown... though if you're not quick enough it may come back up during the second battle and you're back to square one.

Don't think of getting away so much as a loss (that let you keep your tank) and more as winning round 1. If you got them to pop the shield anyway.

A 2/2 can drop a Vanguard pretty fast, so there's a small amount of leeway in how fast you need to reengage. If you have enough range and cover nearby, you can try to be cheeky (depending on how aggressively the Vanguard is moving, anyway) and repair a bit mid battle after a few shots are traded, though even if you get it off you can't get too aggressive while the shield is still available.

Of course in most actual battles there's other forces around hitting one or both of you so it's usually not a cut and dry 1v1 (or 2v2, as the case may be). Either way, hit trading is generally an unfavorable situation for the Mag.

magriders are like sniper tanks, they should keep their distance and they will usually (atleast againt prowlers) win. Prowlers are the close combat tank, they rely on their speed and their (short range) vulcan, prowlers must sneak in from behind and ambush the enemy tank, only problem is the vanguard shield is making this next to impossible.

What exactly makes a magrider a sniper tank? Besides the obvious weakness at most close combat encounters?

ok maybe sniper tank was the wrong term, but the magrider atleast perform the best on longer ranges (atleast from what i've seen)

Although I also have problems with Vanguards I'm fine with them.
I am, however, not fine with the current state of the magburner, our MBT trait. Make it at least last longer and /or boost the tank into the current direction, no matter if you are strafing or reversing. Maybe with a lower boost ratio when strafing or reversing. Otherwise it has nearly no defensive purpose, if you cant jump behind a hill. Using the Magburner defensively in its current state will expose your back to the enemy tank most of the time. And the main gun cant even fire back while escaping.

That was the case with the old Saron. But our main gun has way too much drop and way too low velocity to make it sniper anything. Anchored Prowlers are the snipers. We can strafe, but you have to be very far from enemy MTBs to dodge their bullets because of their high projectile velocity.

Personally I don't think that the magrider has a real niche right now. It is definitely not a close quarter brawler, since it lack both the firepower and the durability at that range. It is also not much of a long range dueler, considering that the main cannon resembles more a catapult than anything else and the saron which is bad at range these days. So it needs to operate at medium range (somewhere between 150 and 300) to have some use of the main canon and the bloom of the saron is not so huge that it affects dps badly. Also at that range it is still possible to make the enemy miss some shots via unpredictable movement.

The best usage I found for my magrider is strictly infantry support. In other words, sitting behind infantry and punish anyone that tries to reach it. That usually involves chasing away harassers or over ambitious tanks.

Oh, and always in 2/2 configuration. A 1/2 magrider dies extremely easy by a vulcan Harasser, which is currently the best MBT in the game.

Pretty much no secret that the Magrider is a little underpowered right now, with the great vanguard shield ability and the anchor mode prowler. Not to mention harasser Vulcan is absolutely insane currently.... I am a TR player, and I don't like our harasser being so OP against tanks, not only that, but I think anchor mode is very silly as the prowler at the end of the day is the fastest MBT, but we ALL choose to remove all speed for anchor mode. But on the topic of Magriders, we have to be careful because the ability to strafe is a monumental advantage, it is just currently in the state that it is not enough, so if they were to get a buff, we would have to be careful otherwise they may become insane. My suggestions would be to make harassers slightly more vulnerable to small arms fire, reduce the amount of ammo the Vulcan harasser carries, increase the time it takes for Prowlers to un-anchor to about 5 seconds (to allow for easier flanking and make it more punishing to anchor at the wrong time, while allowing it to still perform just as well in big fights). I also don't like the insane effectiveness of C4 on tanks, especially after the resource nerf, which is one of the big reasons why tanks have to sit 5km away from the fight, not doing something about C4 would severely hinder the Vanguards ability if the shield was to be nerfed. Perhaps they could add a defense slot item that reduced damage taken from C4, after all tank mines can be reduced and they aren't even in the same ballpark of effectiveness as C4 (intermediate to pro drivers will seldom run over planted road mines). I'm sure these changes would help the Magrider, perhaps more than enough, but buffing their main gun shell velocity may also be another option.

anchored mode for prowlers is just awfull, sacrificing your for movement/speed and making yourself an easy target is just bad, also making your vulcan pretty much useless, and magriders can easily dodge your shots

It isn't, tanks are far to vulnerable to be speeding around getting close to the enemy, which is why most Prowler drivers prefer to anchor down at long range and farm, it is incredibly effective, the Halberd is also a viable replacement for the Vulcan in these circumstances.

Are their any stats that show tank for tank comparisons?

Buffing the magburner will just accentuate the problem. Making them even better at range and even worse in close combat. It will also still offer very little tactical advantage unless the cooldown was really low. Otherwise you would dodge what, one long range volley every 20 seconds at max rank if your timing was good.and nothing at close range against anyone who can aim.

Give the Magrider an EMP pulse, 45 degree, forward arc, 50m range, Shuts down vehicle weapons and lowers vehicle mobility. Removed hud, lasts for ~8 seconds. Bingo.now you don't want to get too close to a mag rider anymore. Tweak values until balanced.

only read the title. short answer: shield wins every 1v1. mby not vs air but all other^^

I like when i read such threads.....So for the 100th time here we go again.
1) 8 seconds is the L4 shield and not 8 full seconds, that depends on the amount of damage you receive. To get to L4 you need roughly 2000 points, it's not easy and not what new players can get. Most people i know have the 6s variant (L2) which hardly lasts 3-4s when taking damage (i see you said it yourself so good).

2) The 4s of "invulnerability" the Vanguard gets add for 1 extra reload/shot so especially the Magrider should be able to avoid that 1 extra shot.

3) Using Racer 3 both vehicles have a top speed of 65kph but the Magrider reaches that speed in 4s give or take while the Vanguard needs almost 2s more. Significant advantage. And then of course we have the traction issue which means you can climb over clifs that the Vanguard can't thus you can easily escape.

4) When you are at 150m or over you can strafe and that can in a large extend make the Vanguard driver miss MANY shots. The Vanguard on the other hand can't strafe, first because it lacks the acceleration to strafe and because its gun stability is horrible.

So no things are fine as they are, the Magrider is the best long range tank hands down, if it wasn't we wouldn't be seeing people MAX their abilities and roll with them all the time. When something is really UP you don't use it and with the introduction of the Harasser people wouldn't be using it at all.

...or you are not as experienced as you think...