As a Mag I will die to a Vanguard 4 out of 5 times in a 1v1...

Simply put your doing it wrong. why are you getting up close to a vangaurd?

I won't bother refuting this list of "arguments", someone else will do it for me... but saying

is just dumb on so many levels. First of all, the mag is the worst tank at range. Can I say "hand downs" so it looks like I know what I'm talking about ? No, I don't need to. Go look up the numbers, you'll see the mag deals the least damage and has the worst bullet velocity of all the MBTs. The best tank at range is an AP Vanguard (better damage, better velocity !) or an anchored prowler. That thing about the mag being a sniper tank goes back to the days of the saron being a one shot sniper rifle, it surely doesn't apply anymore.

Secondly, people still pull mags because it's the only MBT we have. And I'd go as far as saying it's a good one too ! That doesn't mean it doesn't lack in certain areas. You'll also find lots of people who would rather pull a lightning than a mag.

As far as mag vs Vanguard goes, the shield does feel a bit unfair from time to time. If you manage to hit a Vanguard at range multiple times, it can use its shield to back off and repair ; if you get the jump on a Vanguard and hit him once in the rear, it will pop its shield and out-DPS you while being invulnerable. It doesn't make the shield OP, but it requires a mag driver and his gunner to be very tactical. If a random vanguard pops up on your minimap, you might wanna consider bailing as a serious option... It doesn't feel very balanced, but nerfing the shield would only make it UP. What I'd rather ask for is a slight velocity or damage buff for the mag, at least for AP, because it certainly feels quite weak at times.

Magriders can't go toe to toe with vanguards and prowlers can't either if the vanguard has full AP set up.

Ever think that your not meant to go staight up against them? The vanguard driver will be as happy as punch if you just sit there trading blows.

The only way to win is by using the magriders ability to move around freely with ease to get an advantage on the vanguard make him chase you and miss shots. Remaining accurate whilst having to chase is much harder than hitting a static target.

We are NOT talking about two STATIONERY things....From a long distance (150m+) the Magrider can Strafe to avoid incoming shells and at the same time fire because it has Excellent Gun Stability...No other MBT can do that so do enlighten me as to how that doesn't make the Magrider the best mid to long-range MBT.

Um, don't fight Vanguards with Magriders? Mags are for farming infantry. In tank vs. tank battles Magriders are slow, do less damage with less velocity, and easy to chase down and kill.

If you want to beat a Vanguard, buy a Harasser and put a Saron H on it.

Because it's slow, and its strafe is even slower, and tank projectiles have all become quite fast. Not only that, but because they made the Mag's projectiles so slow and with such high drop, it's easy enough to dodge them at that range just by moving forward and backward without even exposing your side armor.

Prowlers are the long range tank, if you haven't noticed. They have the speed to keep it long range, and they have the projectile velocity (with anchor it's even better) to never miss at that range. Vanguards are the close and mid range tank, since if they catch you they can drive up, pop shield, and outshoot you. Magriders used to be something, and even a bit OP depending on which GU, but now they're just a weird third wheel.

Magriders are a second-tier MBT. If you're smart, you only buy them as VS when your Saron-H Harasser is on cooldown. Not that I'm complaining; the Saron Harasser makes it all worth it.

Max Magburner is 20sec complete refill, but you can boost at 50% refill, so every 10 sec.

Hmm I think the Shield is fine but I feel Magrider mobility could use some work. I don't think making the magburner omni-directional is a good option, but I think giving the Magrider more speed retention when going into strafe mode would work. This (I think) would make the Magrider brawler a real option though one that requires quite a bit of skill. Target acquisition becomes paramount as you have to turn away from your target every time you want to gain speed. This would also let you take advantage of the Magburner for strafing without actually giving you a directional Magburner. I think this might also open up for manoeuvres where you speed ahead and then make a 180 turn and still be going faster than normal reverse speed. This would increase the skill sealing while leaving the stock tank in a state where it is still welcoming to novice pilots.

I wouldn't know if my Vanguard could beat a Magrider. It dies to Lancers, Vortexs, and ZOE Comets before I leave the vehicle pad.

The problem with the Magrider is that it's best abilities have a defensive maneuverability focus. Climbing over hard terrain, strafing and magburner are all very very good abilities but they dont help you in a straight up fight at close range.

One solution that I think could work would be to increase the use timer on Magburner but make it last a second or two longer and let it work in 360 degrees. At present it is really only useful as a charge or straight escape mechanism but this would give it a real role in a straight up fight.

Great minds think alike etc

So we're talking about a strafing magrider shooting at a stationary vanguard/prowler then ? A good tanker against a bad tanker ? Because shooting a moving vanguard / prowler while dodging their shells + their secondaries' is not something I'd call easy.

I know I shouldn't bother with you, I've seen your other posts about the mag and I know I won't change your mind, but you ought to reconsider the way you play in your tank if you're playing in a vanguard and not being better than mags at any range.

Many funny things have been said in this thread but the use of caps in this made me laugh particularly, My magrider is fully certed, (max nano-repair, rival chassis, magburner and full reload speed on fpc and saron) and at the "end-game" I am still fairly ineffective at long ranges even if I am landing all my shots because no matter how far away we are our main cannon has less velocity which means more drop and our saron was modified to suit the harasser more. Our strafe speed is also fairly slow and is nearly negligible if you can aim at all for anything other than heavy dumbfire rockets. As a few others have said the best way to play magrider is to play like a harasser with a broken engine, slowly flank around as you will not win against an enemy MBT that is 2/2 in a straight up fight against anyone remotely good. Get a decent gunner with some self-restraint on comms and pick fights in the magrider's effective range, that is 150m behind the enemy tank, and both open up on his poop chute at the same time. When the Vanguard pops his shields you will drop them extremely fast this way and when facing prowlers run as soon as they catch on to your position (not sure about other servers but on Briggs they are never alone, always in a line artillery spamming a spawn room), you will always get one or two before they catch on and when they do you need to get to an advantageous position quickly as they are faster than you and will typically give chase.

Proof that even "experienced" VS players are terribad.

How to win against any enemy tank in the game as a Magrider driver:
1. Use the boost to close the distance
2. Circlestrafe the other tank to death
3. Come to PS2 forums and make posts how your faction is balanced
4. ???
5. Burn in hell for all of eternity

Honestly, here is how you kill a vanguard, Force it to move. It is slow, and the gun gets really shaky when moving. You pop out, and by the time the tank has stopped and stabilized, you've already shot, and are moving behind cover. Saron is realy good at popping out, and dumping a burst.

If you're not running the AP magrider cannon then you're simply doing it wrong. Almost every vanguard I see is rolling with the AP gun with enforcer. It's better against tanks, it's better against air. I personally also roll with the front armor as well. So statistically, I am tougher with equal DPS to any other tank in the game from the front. On the other hand, I've pigeon holed myself into AV role. I can't deal with infantry well, and I'm slow, and vulnerable to flanking. If you're expecting to continue to win fights against tanks with a HEAT or HE primary, then you're mistaken. AP gives you a -1 to the number of hits to kill a tank, HE gives you a +2. Off the bat, vanguard has an extra hit to the front vs a magrider, add front armor and it's another extra hit, add shield and it's another extra hit. So your HEAT/side armor magrider needs to land somewhere like 9 hits to the front. The AP vanguard needing to hit 5. You're going to lose that if you trade hits.

How to get around that? 1 shield, burn the shield, as soon as it goes up, hide, or hop out and repair, if you have a saron though, just cut through it, keep shooting, the shield will break. Force the vanguard to peek over a hill. VG sucks at aiming down, and can't crest hills very well, so they basically miss a shot when they're moving over any kind of hill.

The most important thing is that you need to be kitted for what you're doing. If Vanguards / prowlers are beating you, then pick up the AP magrider gun, get a sauron or halberd gunner, get Front Armor and get some buddies. Solo vanguards don't tend to last very long. If you're trying to solo a tank column, that's another problem.

As a Vanguard, I want to force you into standing still and trading hits on front armor. What I don't want, is to be driving through hills trying to out maneuver an enemy.

The Vanu "theme" is largely about maneuverability. Yes, your tank will tend to lose in a straight-on blow-for-blow fight. But you can strafe, and you can drive on all kinds of crazy terrain. You can flank better than a Vanguard or Prowler could ever dream of. Play to your strong points.

It's like the Scout class in Team Fortress 2. He dies fast in a direct fight, so he has to engage the enemy on his own terms, by using his superior maneuverability to catch the target off-guard.

The NC's theme is about moving a bit slow but hitting hard. You'd better believe the Vanguard will beat other tanks in a straight 1-on-1 fight. If it didn't, there'd be nothing going for it. The other factions' tanks have less obvious advantages; but they're just as good when used correctly.

And yes, there are situations where the Magrider can't really take advantage of its maneuverability (canyons). Those are going to be hard fights for Magrider pilots, just like a hilly area with lots of cover is a hard fight for a Vanguard pilot.

So this is a "please nerf this because it kills me often" post.

These are so common. It's like herpes cases in St.Paul MN

Not defending him or anything, (as if he truly is highly certed and has actual decent gunners, not pubs like me then he is bad bad bad) but our tank is fairly lackluster in tank vs tank.
1. Magburner gives increased speed for about 1.5 seconds max and most of that time is either accelerating or decelerating to and from top speed.
2. Their turret turns faster than ours and in his scenario has better frontal armor + a shield + higher DPS so by the time you start strafing in your "magburner rush" tactic you are dead before you can actually strafe to his poop chute.
3. Our tank is underperforming in every aspect despite including the first 2 GU that we were supposedly overpowered and you obviously have no context as to the other faction's strengths and weaknesses
4. ???
5. Uncalled for?

If the vanguard is hitting your super fast straffing tank...you suck.

The Vanguards advantage is in the stat's whereas the prowler has dual cannons and the magrider is obviously going sideways and floating, and you tell me our advantage is less obvious? <3

We have to be extreme ranges for you to be missing our "super fast strafing tank" and even then you are extremely bad for missing us with your higher projectile velocity rounds.