[Vehicle] ESF hover mechanic. How it should actually work.

Can we please just write this guy off as either a mediocre-tier troll or someone that is so ******** by skyknights and hell-bent on making their own version of "fun" heard that it invalidates their opinion? He clearly doesn't want to concede any ground, whether he understands what he is talking about or not.

Now, before I am accused of "not contributing", like OP vehemently demands (and for those that DO acquiesce, they have already been pissed on), I posit that we forget about his nonsensical overhauling of a system that already has plenty of unique, exciting and potential-filled quirks and push it to its limits. I believe the flight combat should be more like games such as Strike Vector, in which forward flight and hover mechanics are distinctly separate categories of movement within the same aircraft. Very twitch-based and frenetic.

You are wasting your time. Move along. And you're still boring.

There are no extra thrusters. Where are they? Show me on any ESF where do they have those "Reactive control systems, thrust vectoring, and differential thrust"

"They don't use control surfaces" Are you sure? I think they pretty much do.

And yes, video of a Reaver in another game with extra thrusters that Reavers don't have in Planetside. You almost got me convinced! Take another try!

Oh and if you wish to bring Kerbal for aerodynamics discussion... Yeah, there are plenty of thing that fly in Kerbal. Even this.

I see. So I did infact write your true reasons...

Because you're a closeminded effortless scrub

FUN FACT, you would still get rekt by same people without hover mode...

I was hoping for a rational discussion centered around bettering the game, so I was quite clearly not looking for input from you.

Also, I'd like to point out that Liberators have no visible thrusters for yaw control nor any downward thrusters that would let it roll so quickly and so accurately around its centre axis, unless I've missed them somewhere. Also, they don't have reverse thrusters for breaking at high speeds either, because, referencing back to what you said about Liberators you believe they use "helicopter mechanics" and thus don't use control surfaces, nor do they appear possible, given the model and its tiny wings.

Basically, just because it isn't there does not imply that the intent is missing. Animating a large amount of parts that react in flight sounds like an intensive job. It would be a very complex model. So, that's another argument thrown out.

Are you getting the picture yet? You aren't surrounded by idiots. You are the one refusing to see the problems behind your own ideas. Get rekt some more.

I see people still trying to bite me instead of bringing their valid opinions on the topic. Pathetic and immature.

Well effing people is mature I guess, right... Topic? Alright...

2. 5. Completely wrong and shows lack of knowledge of game mechanics. In airgame in general there is so many things that define the outcome:

Situational awareness:
1) where are your enemy
2) where are your friendlies

Positioning:
1) high or low
2) in the open vs behind the hills, between trees etc

Dogfighting movement:
1) keeping your enemy above / below you
2) keeping a certain angle, movement patern, momentum
3) staying in hover and getting back to hover mode
4) keeping 1+ enemies in one angle
5) holding a position where you can dogfight but evade ground AA at the same time
6) When to rush, when to hover
7) Fuel management, maneuvers timing

Dogfighting shooting:
1) Spray vs burst
2) Ammo management and reload
3) VERY DIFFICULT leading: bullets don't inherit your momentum, to know how to lead one must be aware of his own and enemy movement and speed. And to understand visual feedback
3a) is your enemy going up or down?
3b) are you going up or down?
3c) where to aim, below or above? to the left or right?
4) Pure aiming component - reacting to enemy's movement (with addition of leading)
5) Aiming for distant enemy or enemy running away - not easy at all

Please, tell me again about skill dependency and "only hover waltz and RM" like it's some child's stupidity.

What you wanna do is remove skill component from this game. That's all.

Another bad player with bad ideas. Please, learn to play the game before trying to make suggestions on things you don't understand.

I just realized how you didn't react to arguments of other people in here, particularly about leading and skill. You're just dodging question and don't wanna really discuss anything. Valid opinions have been brought...

Another player that bites instead of contributing. Go away. Waste your time elsewhere. Do your homework for example.

Fiiinally. But I want to ask you: What hover does with all of it? Is it really a vital part of all this stuff? And why making hover less viable in combat is "removing skill"? Is it really hovering is that "skill component" you talking about?

That's because I don't want to mess myself with all that dirt just to see if there is anything valuable. If you want to bring questions or opinions you better watch your attitude.

Ulas had a good attitude and you ignored him.

Movement and shooting section. All connected to hover...

Why making hover less viable is "adding skill" to the game? Why going to classic mode dogfight is "adding skill" to the game?

So I take it you don't agree that it's skill and you're owning all the pilots daily, right?...

All you do is playing a strawman.

No I didn't. We shared our opinions. If you think otherwise... that's your point of view.

I think otherwise. Because if dogfighting depending on hover too much that's what I call "Hover Waltzing" and there is no skill in such thing.

I don't mean that there would be hover removed completely, no. There still going to be place for vertical thrust and hovering. But my point is to make hover in combat ineffective due to turn rate penalty.

Because that's what going to make points that you brought above to actually work, and work for everyone. That's where is going to be "skill" if there would be classic dogfighting. Otherwise all this will end up in "Hover Waltzing" which is blight of the airgame.

But now it's my turn.

Why do you think that classic dogfighting is bad?

I don't. I'm an ex BF3 dogfighter.

Source? Evidence?

Alright! But why can't we have classic dogfight mechanic? Again, I find classic mechanic far more entertaining and skill dependent rather than current system.

My own opinion. There is no skill in pressing Space, aiming and using afterburner a bit. It's dull, it's dumb. I'd rather to see players to follow the points you brought. But for that we need to get rid of hover in combat.

Since he only seems to be taking you seriously at the moment, Czarinov, perhaps you should ask him to demonstrate his effortless and natural grasp of "hover-waltzing" in single combat with one of his server's top pilots (or, failing that, I have a sneaking suspicion that even a mediocre one would suffice). If he is able to best them whilst maintaining that cool air of disinterest, then perhaps he is onto something about our current dogfighting mechanics being uninteresting and simple. Now, I'm sure Kristan is a very busy lad, and thus might claim not to have the time of day for such trivial examples, but I don't think it would take much time nor effort (if his claims are anything to go by) to record some of his aerial exploits in a day. I mean, he wouldn't have to do any real editing of the video, since all of his aerial combat is bound to be singular in execution.

In fact, I'd be interested to see his PAST records as well. If you could wrangle a few character names out of him, that would be grand. Good luck in your endeavours to extract something resembling reason from this individual. May your patience be unflappable in the face of such a relentless onslaught.

Update: I've been looking through PS2's character search engine and have found several hits for names similar to Kristan. The highest ranking one (let's just assume that's him, because the rest are all <BR30) is this one:

https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428010618030997633

If this is indeed our OP, then it really is a stroke of luck, because that shows him up as a fellow Miller player. I will personally step forward as a representative of both my beloved faction, VS, and of flying enthusiasts everywhere, challenging Kristan to an aerial duel. With a combined ESF flight time of over 350 hours, I am sure I can at least give him a somewhat entertaining fight. There may be more suitable pilots on Miller for this vital task, but let it be known that I was the first to offer my life in service to the cause of "better gameplay".

wow, pilots get mad when people point out how the Reverse Maneuver is a problem.

My guess is that you are unfamiliar with the concepts of irony and satire.

Also, care to point out where he (or anyone else, for that matter) has rationally shown that the reverse maneuvre is at all problematic for the game, aside from it being unintuitive and difficult to grasp due to the steep learning curve of today's air combat? The lack of official resources for helping newcomers into the airgame has also already been mentioned.