Give the Magrider "no bullet drop". It's a Vanu trait....Right?

It's not even a tank...It's a self propelled tank destroyer.

Fine, you can keep it but the rest of us want no drop. The magrider is built for long range, this whole, "hey man you can arch shots n' stuff" is a dumb argument.

Wow, genius alert.

The saron, ppa, lasher, and lancer all have no drop. And guess what, they aren't bullets...

Shockwave since you appear to be the smartest person here please enlighten us as to how having to be the only tank that has to fully expose itself to fire at something is a good thing. Especially when you're the most fragile MBT on the battlefield already.

Be sure to include info on how having the canon at the lowest point on the vehicle, as opposed to on the turret like on the other MBTs, makes it advantageous to have a completely flat trajectory.

Technically, plasma doesn't count as bullets either, seeing as plasma is nothing more than super heated gas. So maybe the VS should get drop on all weapons, except NS stuff, because there the only weapons VS has access to that uses solid projectile technology. Yeah, drop less bulldogs, pythons, and basilisks. Forumside will hit the roof.

To remain physically correct, all plasma guns would dissipate very, very quickly in the atmosphere. The Mag's cannons will become basically shotgun flame-throwers, perhaps acidic, if it were to be 'realistic'.

Now there's an idea. Take the Mag's burn, give it cloak, give it shotgun acid flame-throwers, and let loose some CQC ganking operations.

I said might be beneficial. Although I am, or rather was, a huge fan of the old Saron until they nerfed/buffed/changed it, I'm not sure that the Mag would be better or worse if it had all of the cannons without drop (though I think the VPC could use a little less drop IMO). I think that a new laser cannon would be in line.

I'm just annoyed at the trait in general being applied to everything except the weapons that would make the trait really, really useful, such as slug shotguns or sniper rifles, which are all to the best of my knowledge laser guns. Yet 'plasma' weapons, such as the PPA and Lasher, get no drop, while the Mag's main cannons do? It's just mixed up.

Hmmm.... ok lets think real hard about this.

You'd rather be in enemy territory arching slow projectiles at enemies with ESFs and liberators flying overhead than picking off tanks from 500m out where no one can see or hit you.

I cannot remember one time when having an arch on that pos gun was beneficial.

This is so stupid I cannot comprehend.

Look at esamir or northern indar. Almost completely flat yet you'd rather roll with the current weapon than one that can pick off enemies from a SAFE distance.

I'm gonna use big words so it sinks in...

The magrider is not designed for close range combat.

1.) The projectile on the Magrider comes out higher than where the actual cannon is placed, allowing Magriders to hull down effectively.
2.) When exposed, the Magrider is better than the other MBTs as it can shoot reliably while on the move, while other MBTs usually have to choose between shooting and moving.
3.) Prowlers and Magriders have the same health and armor values.

The prowler whilst sharing the level of health and armour has the highest top speed and DPS and 1/2 Prowlers can and do engage 2/2 Magriders and win.

In terms of DPS a prowler engaged by a mag from the rear can merely aim the turret and still kill a mag that's how pathetic the Mags DPS is.

The Magrider utilises a similar gun to the Lightning it does slightly more alpha damage then the lightning at the expense of reload speed. Same arc and projectile speed.

The Magrider has nothing going for it when the Saron is now outperformed by the Halberd at range. The only good gun on the Mag is the PPA and that's only because the others have been nerfed to hell or was a BAAAAAD idea in the first place (a shotgun on a tank, seriously?).

Vanu MBT is the NS systems Lightning/Harasser/Liberator/Max armour Sundy with bulldogs. The Magrider is what I use when I have no other options....

Well it was clear you were going to let your argument devolve back into insults after you micro-aggressed 3 times prior so I'll explain everything real simple like for you to understand so you don't get mad again.

As I have stated before the Magrider is designed to take full advantage of the terrain. The ability to climb hills in seconds is crucial. That means you can position yourself on a hill above your target quickly and ontop of being able to go full hull down if you chose you can even pull back and not show yourself at all and continue to land hit after hit while your secondary gunner lays waste to them.

Whoever told you the Magrider was not designed for close range combat wasn't being entirely truthful and I guess you ate it up. I think you've been trolled if that is actually why you have been avoiding from using it that way.

Ask yourself why the Magrider would need more maneuverability than the other MBTs if it is intended for use as a long range weapons platform? Why would you be able to cert it in a way that allows you to hover over an enemy MBT and shoot them in the weak rear armor? Why would you ever need to be able to float over small obstacles with ease if you weren't expected to use it to get around an enemy? Why would it's main anti-armor secondary, the Saron, have a huge damage dropoff at range if it was intended for sniping?

None of the answers you should be thinking of should indicate the Magrider was solely meant for long range combat. If they do then I'm sorry, you're not using it to it's full potential. Not even close. If you were being truthful that you can't even think of one time the arced trajectory was helpful I feel you have been using it wrong all along.

It is a MBT, meaning it is a universal tank. It is meant to deal with any number of threats and whatever distances. If you can't make long range shots that isn't the developer's fault. Anyone can go into VR training and learn how to use the canon at range. There is no excuse for not being able to.

As for saying it is a long range tank by reason that Esamir is kindof flat (actually it isn't, there are plenty of small hills and canyons around to use as concealment but the extra clear weather makes it so you can see greater distances which is probably what fooled you) and 1/3 of indar doesn't mean anything.

I could just as easily claim the opposite of what you're arguing about because the other 2/3's of indar isn't flat and Amerish is certainly not very flat but I wont because that makes no sense as an argument but that is basically the logic you are using.

If you're intending to play like a sniper and sit as far away as possible from the enemy in a vehicle then pick up a python for your lightning and stop complaining.

1. I have no idea what you're talking about. (proof?)
2. Go back and read, I wasn't asking if it was doable. I was asking how is it better for the Magrider.
3. Prowlers also have better armor coverage zones than Magriders since frontal armor on the Mag basically means lower front section, top means upper front section, and side means some of the frontal edges and some of the side so even if you cert one of these areas there is a 2/3 chance the return fire to your front is going to hit something completely unarmored. Meanwhile the Prowler gets a huge frontal armor shield and it's boxy profile means most, if not all, shots are going to impact the armored areas if that is what is facing them. (But wait! With the Magrider's curved projectile trajectory I can get around the front armor and drop rounds ontop of him !!!)

You can play the terrain the same way right now by moving 50 meters forward or even sideways, firing on the move with your stabilized primary AND secondary weaponry - the only such weapons in the game.

A Magrider with a Vanguard-level main cannon is pretty much the definition of unbalanced. If you want more punch per shot you don't get to also be insanely mobile with fantastic secondaries.

Also the Magrider outperforms the Vanguard on a per-pull basis so I guess it's not doing so bad on the whole.

Except it's the slowest tank in game and they nerfed it's ability to climb hills (and lets not get into the fact how the main gun has worse gun angles then the other two empires or the frontal only aiming etc.).

Because it was originally intended to be a long range sniper (see original 1 shot Saron, then charge up Saron) but since VS actually certed their tanks and ran 2/2 while TR and NC did not running 1/2 (as their secondaries were crapped compared to their main gun while VS had a weaker main gun then secondary and still do) they could use said dodge at range (you know the dodge that actually only work up to about 250m to actively dodge incoming bullets because below that point you can't dodge a bullet coming your way on your screen actively). It was also to compensate for the fact it had (and still do) the lowest DPS and highest ttk (still do) with the worst speed (still do) and lowest armor (shared with Prowler and still do) on the largest tank. Then they nerfed the mobility with out touching the downsides it has...

No it's a Heavy Harrasser with guns intended to fight close combat with the lowest armor, speed, with out turret for main gun and poor empire specific ability to mesh with it. For it to be a MBT it should be able to field 10 MBTs vs 10MBTs on a field and end up with one or two tanks left but in reality because the Mag has such poor damage output and need to constantly try to move around to preemptively fool poor gunners (decent once simply aim in the middle and land their shots anyway and good once don't even need that) they not only need more space (and can't have any infantry around or they will be mowed down) but they also need to have terrain to dodge around (while the enemy sits still in open terrain waiting for them rather then closing in to engage (NC) or lock down and WTFPWN anything peaking out TR)). This of course does not include minor things such as a unlocked 1/2 AP Prowler will kill a Mag shooting it's front armor while the 2/2 Mag with dual AP guns shooting the Prowler in the back (and hence it would be 20 1/2 Prowlers/Vanguards vs 10 2/2 Mags more likely on the field) ...

i remember a time when the magrider did have no drop on their main cannon. it was a dark time where they would pelt infantrymen into oblivion from no less than 50 meters and would even pelt spawn rooms and shielded vehicle bays and getting kills THROUGH the shields since they were so far away the shields did not render but could easily fire into them since no bullet drop.

and then sony removed it. course after they removed it they went and fixed player rendering to be more close to real threats and in the process have mostly prevented killing players in the spawn.

personally, i think the magrider is in a decently good spot considering they are kings of mobility in both covering terrain and in getting to places other tanks cannot access or have much trouble accessing. and they do have the best ES secondaries weapons in the game currently. (marauder and canister got nothing on PPA)

The devs are too scared to try anything original so they don't bother trying giving the VS their own trait because they are too scared of Forumside QQ.

The faction's trait should be the main feature of any faction's gun, and the gun should be balanced around that.

Ergo, the Magrider should get no drop on its main cannons. Then, their stats should be tweaked in order to make it balanced. I can think of lower bullet velocity (VS Battle Rifles have lower velocity to compensate for no drop at range, which works) or even damage dropoff.

The point, however, doesn't change. Each faction should have their traits applied to every single weapon of theirs, and then be balanced around that. Not the other way around - "make a generic weapon and then sprinkle some faction trait on top if applicable" is the wrong way to do it. This also applies to the TR and NC. A few months ago all TR infantry weapons were basically VS weapons with larger mags and slower reload to compansate. Only recently the TR got the extreme 900+ ROF they deserve for some weapons. This trait realignment procedure needs to be done for the Magrider, too.

Also, don't you dare use "realism" as an argument. If PS2 was realistic, all VS infantry weapons would be OHK against infantry and would also damage tanks (do you have any idea how hot plasma is?), all ESF rocket pods would kill a tank in only a few rounds, all explosives would instagib infantry in a 4-meter radius... do I have to go on?

Why?

What kind of question is that?

Would you like it if all your tanks weapons got 1450 damage, 3.75 reload time and 200 m/s speed (like the VS ones) and the devs came out with "It's easier to balance"?

Would you like it if the Gauss SAW was removed and replaced with an Orion variant with 100 bullets, 5s reload and an NC skin?

Would you like it if the Raven was removed and replaced with a Falcon with very slightly different stats?

This is why. Faction differences should be one of the selling points of this game. Back in 2012, when the game was first presented, the devs said something like "The 3 faction in Planetside 2 are unique, the each have their own ideology, their own style, their own weapons...". The game should stay true to that premise.

Why what? Why should a faction weapon trait apply to a faction weapons?

Could anyone list what weapons had no bullet drop in the past? Including beta.

Yeh in theory. Guess how many times this happens ingame.

99 out of a 100 times, arc is complete horse****. and VS has the most of it.

Well, I know that VS slugs have been "nerfed" to be the exact same as the other faction's relatively recently (now they have drop). Previously, they had slower speed to compensate for no drop, which apparently was too OP and SOE couldn't be bothered to work on a better solution that just nerfing faction traits.

And by looking at this video, it looks like that Magriders used to have no drop in the very early Alpha days.

A good one. Why?

Why is "a weapon must be based on faction traits" an iron rule? Plenty of weapons break this rule and and I don't have a problem with it.

No bullet drop started out as a Vanu trait, it sounded like a good idea at the time. But turns out...no bullet drop is OP as ****. Thus the slowly but surely nerfs to it.

So stop thinking that because your faction shoots lazers means all your weapons shouldn't have drop (I know, it's dumb) but instead you're the faction with "some" weapons without drop and not some entitlement to it.