"Close range fighting" is usually up to 25 or 30 meters. The NC MAX can only get instant kills up to 5 or so meters, outside of that it's a lot worse than the TR and VS MAXes. If by medium range you mean 10 meters, then yes, the Mattock is one of the best medium range weapons out there. I'm not even going to argue with this as it's just biased nonsense.
CQC. I'm talking about halls, and rooms where objectives are held, or choke points between these areas. I'm talking about rushing the enemy sunder once you've thrown off an attack. I love how Scatmax enthusiasts always say " We can Only instant kill you from 5 to 10 meters, outside of that range it take at least 2, 3 or even 4 WHOLE SHOTS to kill someone!" Medium range, as I understand it is 30-40 meters. AIM with your mattock slugs, you know aiming right, it's what other maxes have to do at all ranges. Even without slugs you can still get kills at this range, though it's going to take more ammo. Biased nonsense? You're the ONLY person I've ever seen actually try and say that scatmaxes don't eat enemy maxes alive in CQC, no matter what the enemy's load out is.
Rooms with objectives and other buildings still have long corridors which are horrible for shotguns. It takes more than 3 shots to kill someone at those kinds of ranges. And just FYI 3 shots is half a magazine. I'm talking about the standard buckshot.
there are only 2 places NC max have an advantage, bio labs and underground bases other than that i would happily take a mini-gun or vanu laser gun. our AT weapons are better than our AI weapons at medium range witch is 75% of every battle and you're maxes are not useless in CQC either, not as good but nowhere near as bad as the NC max is at distance. also who cares that we win once out of every 10 fights because we are the best at CQC would you bring a shotgun as a LA running across 50 meters or something like that so you are close enough to a enemy position to fire?
You're really intent on keeping your point of view as narrow as possible, skirting around most of the things I said and focusing on a handful of bad arguments. When I was describing NC max medium ranged fighting I mentioned mattocks, which are good at medium range, but I also mentioned slug ammo, which makes them even better at medium range. Dual slugs are going to eat infantry alive. So yes, the NC max can be quite capable at medium range when you spend some certs. Just like anything, if you want to be at your best, you're going to have to spend cert points. So like I said, when the NC max is in it's element, it's extraordinary. When it's slightly outside it's element, it's quite capable. And FYI, no Max anti infantry weapons are really that good beyond 40meters. Now just to be clear, I'm not saying to nerf the NC max. It needs it, but w/e. If you feel the need to play something broken, go for it. What I'm saying is that it most certainly doesn't need a buff of any kind whatsoever. If I was going to ask for a nerf, it would be to the hacksaw/ mattock's anti max capability. It's ******** that they can down a max in less than 3 seconds.
How to balance the MAX Unit: Crouching should further tighten CoF (and Pellet Spread) by some amount for all MAX Units if it doesn't already. Half the ammo reserve on TR and VS MAX Units (There's an Extra-Magazines Suit Slot for the MAX waiting for you if you're worried. THIS WILL MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT'S WORTH IT) Adjust/Revamp MAX Abilities NC MAX Triple the effective range by tightening the Cone of Fire and Pellet Spread (Make them have the range of real shotguns) Triple magazine size (No triple for ammo reserve) Possibly look into lowering reload times Lower damage (Longer TTK) Actually use the triple-barrel aesthetic of the triple-barreled NC MAX Shotguns (Which is all of them) Each shotgun should fire 6 pellets per barrel (18 total pellets from each click) Slug Ammunition should fire 3 slugs instead of 1 New range stats for NC MAX Units: HackSaw: Effective range should be 20M, maximum range should be 30M Grinder: Effective range should be 30M, maximum range should be 35M ScatterCannon: Effective range should be 35M, maximum range should be 40M Mattock: Effective range should be 45M, maximum range should be 50M Adjust damage-output / reload-times where necessary. Slap it on PTS and see how it works out
Slugs maybe? The fact that 99% of the NC are stupid doesn't mean the Mattock can't destroy everything at mid range with slugs.
NC max needs buff? sure give them a med ranged option and nerf the CQC weapons. Only NC Maxes that can one shot other maxes with their AI weapon. Any other Maxes (vanue) that can one shoot other maxes? TR sure cant with any weapon they can use.
It's not a choice of whether or not we want to use them. The problem is that they cost 250 certs (or 500 if you're getting them for both arms). Add to that at least 250 extra certs for an extra Grinder and you get 750 certs for a medium range AI loadout, as opposed to the TR or VS's 250 certs for just one weapon.
Lol scrubs, why don't you guys just learn how to play the NC before crying about buffing it. I personally love our max, it flat out destroys any other max and infantry in cqc, which learning to play in cqc must be a challenge for you. Cause i have no problem getting close and face owning everything, not to mention NC max ravens(which are the best AV weapons out there for a max all round) And what's this one shotting other maxes? Most Maxes run flack armor which half explosive damage, which is why i run hacksaws for max vs max and just about everything else(no i don't walk out into an open plain with my max -_-) If they buffed the NC max at all then other maxes would also need a buff to compete, so please l2p before crying on the forums
If anyone was confused by this post I am here to say that this isn't a 0/10 Buff-NC-MAX post. I was suggesting way a revamp/balance to MAX Units, and test it on PTS to see if people like it or not, then change things accordingly. What I mean by "Ammo-Reserve" is how much back up magazines you have, not how much ammo each magazine holds. This wouldn't even be noticeable if you have a Sundy/Infantry-Terminal/Pocket-Engineer/Random Ammo-Pack laying around (Enemy ammo-packs can resupply you) and would make Extra-Magazines Ability Slot (Or was it Suit Slot?) a viable option to go with. Recap: Make MAX Units have more accuracy when firing while crouching. (If it doesn't do this already) Reduce Anti-Infantry Ammunition-Reserve of TR and VS MAX Units. Adjust/Revamp MAX Abilities ( Redo/Rethink ZOE, Lock-Down & Aegis, but this is really for a whole 'nother thread ) Lower NC MAX's Damage for a tightened Cone of Fire and tighter Pellet Spread. Double/Triple the amount of rounds in NC MAX shotgun magazines. Use the triple-barreled aesthetics ( model ) of NC MAX Shotties by making it 3 slugs per round ( 1 Slug from each barrel ) and 18 pellets per round. ( 6 Pellets from each barrel ) ( Maybe 24 pellets per round/8 pellets per barrel? ) Then adjust damage / reload-times / where deemed necessary.
Oh damn ****, u dont get the "i can kill all things with one shot" weapon for free.... yea thats a real problem... u know others have to pay theyr equip to?? what a sensless argument
Yeah I guess all these thousands and thousands and thousands of slug kills I have doing exactly the opposite of what you're describing just straight up never happened People get in a seriously crazy tizzy over slug accuracy. You can't just side strafe and magdump without missing a bunch of shots? How is this unique to this gun? Nobody flips their sh*t about the TR/VS MAX reticle being larger than the actual COF but for some reason it's the most crushing of blows for an NC All MAXes are garbage at AA compared to a lockdown Burster MAX. Also you're an idiot if you use the Aegis for AA - splash will still hit you for 100% damage and now you're a sitting duck. #2 and #3 are spot on, though I have the strongest of doubts about any cloakers unclocking to happily engage ANY MAX in CQC. Also, our TTK outside of ~8m or so on other MAXes is actually worse than the TR or VS MAXes. We trade exceptional ability to kill squishies for a slightly below average ability to kill MAXes. The exception to this is dual exmag Grinders, which suffer horrible dropoff and are 1500 certs to get and kit out.
If you made the VS and TR MAXes worry about ammo reserves as much as the NC MAX has to, they would flip their sh*t and it would be hilarious. It would be nice to see how the VS and TR feel about exmags being mandatory all of a sudden. Doesn't seem like they view it as too terribly unfair at the moment, especially since their optional exmags grant them far more killing power than our mandatory ones do. When you're battling both spread AND COF, having 3x the pellets doing 1/3 (or less? no way) of the damage would actually be a HUGE nerf. If you made the damage curve of buckshot less horrifically unforgiving (presently it is 130@8m down to 50@18m, the worse in the game by a huge margin) this may work but that is never going to happen.
500 certs is about 1000 kills, which contrary to the fantasy world we NC live in (Vanu are easy to play, so it's not really a fantasy for you) it's actually quite mind numbingly hard to sit at a computer for 12 hours 3 days in a row. From experience, this is how long it takes to get me a 500 certs. As BR 94 and still going I earn about 20-30 per hour. This is probably because I work for my certs, not droolpod infantry in an ESF or Uberlib farm like those people of the worst kind. But the hardest thing about getting 500 certs is not finding 10 something else's much cheaper that you also have in mind. Still haven't got revive grenades yet... So much other stuff that pops up... Still BS that we have to spend 1000 certs mandatory (If you run dual, which as NC you most likely will.) for our things to be partially useful. when TR and easy-mode VS don't have to scrub in those extra certs for their weapons to be useful. Hell, if I could make any one thing come to live out of my proposed balance, I would choose the one to castrate your ammunition reserve, so you could see half the world we live in.
Reason #1 Your argument is invalid, shield does nothing against splash, and being as buggy as it is doesn't really stop any of the other stuff either. Reason #2 I don't think you play MAX enough to know that falcon is slower than any no-bullet-drop gib comet laser, which from a personal experience can out-DPS 2 max certed Nano Armor Kit engineers and a max level repair Sundy to kill the Sundy with the Engineers repairing it. Reason #3? I call BS, I use my shotguns all the time, and from experience they do NOT OHK, and that isn't even relevant, the TTKs are too tiny to make any significant difference anyways. We are in no way gods, we're not even kings. And TR/VS maxes can kill in those same times from twice as far as our effective range. (12M is tiny, a spawn-room is longer than that) + The fact you don't have to reload for 4 seconds after every 2-3 kills without extended mags and every 5-6 with them makes a really big difference. To your Edit, I do agree with the best TTK against enemy MAX units, if we're within 5M with both extended mags... But by the time I walk to get close enough to an enemy MAX half my health is gone, and then after unloading all 24 rounds of my dual grinders that's barely enough to kill them, I'm left with about 10-20% Health. And all I have is one single enemy that is dead, while I'm reloading for another 4 seconds. Not sure about the AV AI capabilities vs. Vanu's, I think we're better there, but I know the TRs Pounders are outright superior at AI than the falcons.Also, AV can't be used as an excuse for poor AI design of our MAX Unit.
