MBT vs C4

Well as someone else gracefully said too.. ( XD )
and this is something that has always bothered me...

there is NO real advantage of using ANY class other than engineer (and LA on air) when using a vehicle.
you dont deal extra damage, get a bit more health, make less noise, have incrased speed, or whatever passive perk that some wicked scientist could have comed by, when manning a vehicle with any other class.
Theres a reason why engineer is the most played class, and its not really due to it beign an XP powerhouse, but the fact that this game provides players with several vehicles wich can be made significantly more durable by running an engineer and repairing it.

There was this ONE time that i was using a Light Assault and started gunning for a friendly vanguard as he was rolling the kobalt we comed across an enemy prowler, knowing i wouldnt help a thing on that fight i jumped off the vehicle and started jumping and closing into the prowler, forcing him to split his attention between the vanguard and the threat of getting c4'ed by a light assault, the poor guy tried to retreat only to get stuck on a ledge and we did short work of him. Even on that scenario, i would have surely helped more stepping off the vanguard and repairing while he was in the fight.

And yet your stats are actually worse than many who use C4. It costs you nearly 1100 resources per kill (way over twice as many as a tank which can kill an infinite number of players), although your accuracy is slightly better, in that it takes you slightly less than 1:5 bricks of C4 to do some damage.

From all the stats I've looked at some far, it takes approx 500 resources to use C4. As far as resource cost is concerned, there is simply no argument that a tank is cheaper than C4, in use or resource cost.

With posting those pictures with K/D ratios (which aren't anywhere near your normal K/D) I can only hope you are pushing the idea that MBT's should cost MORE and C4 less. Lets see... get 40+ kills in an MBT or get 4 (max 16) kills using the same amount of resources for C4. Definitely should cost more for MBT and less for C4 using that kind of argument.

Thanks for helping to support those who claim C4 is justified in its cost!

1. The death chart isn't the same for everyone, I've watched it carefully since it has been available to view. So don't tell me it's not relevant because I know it is.

2. The first month of the game I tried really hard to play as infantry with 10-20 FPS and I couldn't hack it, I died time after time after time getting almost no kills because my frames were garbage. That absolutely destroyed my overall KDR. Those screen shots I posted, I have around 20 of them going all the way back when I first started tanking and found out my skills still applies since tanks are more forgiving for low FPS users.

3. MBT's cost over twice of what C4 costs, for the average person it cost 1000's of certs to make it worth it, is on a long cool down which must be certed into, and can be destroyed outside of its own effective range by non rendering ESRL's HA's and AV turrets which cost 0 resources.

4. C4 has no cool down, costs less than half of what a MBT is, can be attempted to be used unlimited amount of times with no resource cost (infantry cost nothing), can solo a MBT, and be flown in and dropped above the MBT's turret angle.

5. I'm an outlier so you can't use me as an example, that's like me saying AA Maxes were always balanced because ThundaHawk was still killing ground targets with his ESF. I post screen shots of my scores so people don't call me a bad tanker, and yes I go on 40-50 Kill streaks in my tank on a very regular basis so you're wrong about that too.

6. Nice try dedicated C4 using LA player who obviously doesn't want to lose his ridiculously cheap C4

How to kill vehicles
Drop Beacon.
Write down /suicide in the chat.
Press enter.
Wait 10 secs.
Press "deploy" with the beacon selected.
Aim over the vehicle.
Press the C4 button and spam Right button until it drops 2 block.
Jump off, teabag it if you want.
Press Left button of the mouse.
Repeat.

Average time: 15~20 secs.

YEAP C4 TAKE A HELL OF SKILL.

I run max Proxy Radar on all my Lightnings, and it's definitely a great tool to help avoid C4 fairies.

The main problem is that while it's a valid choice on a Lightning, it would take the slot of the MBT specific ability like the Van shield - abilities that are almost core to the identity of the tank. It's why I think it might be interesting if those abilities got moved to their own cert line so they're always available (if the tank is certed into them, anyway), so that there would actually be some choice in what you put in the utility slot. Vanguard would need a new keybinding so Shield/Smoke don't conflict, but that's easy enough to add.

Biggest counter point (other than it obviously being a slight buff to MBTs) is that Magburner would have to not become omni-directional like some want and instead stay forward only. Can only imagine the carnage an omni-directional Magburn + IR Smoke Mag setup for AI could inflict upon the unfortunate infantry players.

Good thing the tank roadmaps are... oh right, unscheduled.

This isn't always true.
Infantry does cost nothing, but a failed C4 attempt usually involves 1 or even 2 bricks lost. It's easy to burn through C4s without taking down a tank, if said tank has a capable gunner (assuming said gunner is using a AI gun or a basilisk or a walker) or a few infantry at his side.
Let me give you an example that happened to me recently: half an hour ago i and a few other randoms were attacking the eastern outpost of Tawrich through the southern road, which is the perfect hunting ground for LAs given the bazillion places from where they can throw bricks at you.
Regardless of that, my HE Prowler kept mowing down vanuses, while an engy repaired me and a couple of guys used me for cover and, at the same time, protected me from a pesky little LA who kept flying in trying to C4 me. He probably wasted 5 or 6 bricks on me while being killed before placing the second one or before detonating. If a AP swagrider hadn't shown up, we'd have pushed them back and capped the base.
Still, he wasted a resource pool worth of C4 and got nothing. Why? because i was lucky to have a couple of guys with enough sense to stay near me and help me survive those attacks (seriously, if you read this you guys deserve a manly hug).

Honestly, i don't think C4 is the problem. The problem is that to counter C4 you have to stay away from high cover and buildings, but if you do that you are exposed to a bazillion AV weapons that are either invisible (infantry launchers) or nearly invisible (AV turrets 600 meters away).
SOE needs to do something about that first, then the C4 problem could solve itself as soon as tank drivers have other viable means to avoid LAs.

Awwww...you want C4 to be more "realistic"?

Sure! And while we're at it...let's make rocket launchers more realistic hmmmm? One shot...One kill.



And yes, as previous posters mentioned "C4 fairies" are easy to avoid. If you're sitting on a ridge all by your lonesome camping a spawn, don't complain when you get asploded by a stray LA.

I have jumped right on top of enemy tanks numerous times, dropped the C4 on them, thanked them and then flown away and blown it. That's how oblivious they were.

Should we make special concessions for infiltrators with tunnel vision too? Make bullets do less damage to them?

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA. I can't believe people still use that example.
They're blowing up a T72 with a Javelin. That T72 is still using RHA, it's a tank that was built in the 60s, the only defenses it has are passive, namely ERA (on some), or its' armor.
The Javelin is incredibly expensive, and incredibly heavy (22kgs on top of a normal combat load).
Because it uses Thermal to sight in a target, it needs to cool down between shots. This can take as little as 30 seconds in the right environment, in the desert it will take longer due to a higher ambient air temperature.
There's no way to correct the course of the Missile after it is fired, meaning the missile can miss due to low contrast of heat between the target and its surroundings.

The Javelin has an effective range of 2,500m, a 5th generation tank that uses the Rheinmetall 120mm (Abrams, Leopard, K2) has an effective range of 4000m using conventional ammunition, 8000m using guided munition.
5th Generation tanks have a variety of defenses for dealing with missiles, ERA, Dazzlers, Trophy/Arena/Quick Kill/Iron Fist.

If I were to play the RL card, then everything would end up getting destroyed by Strategic Bombers.

What car would this ? If you are talking about the harraser, all I can say is face palm. Seriously do you even use a c4? Do you just pull comments out of your @$$ ? One c4 takes down stock hardware. 2 c4 more than good enough for armored harraser.

Well...this is the future. We have future rocket launchers.

C4 is perfectly fine and balanced as is. The real problem is the MBTs costing too much. Check out this thread: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/lets-talk-resources.136476/

If using LA to C4 tanks was so easy then why is there any tank on tank combat at all? surely people will just use LA to destroy tanks every time.

If you look at the resource cost 200 vs 450 then numbers are imbalanced, however if you look at killing potential of those resources it is still imbalanced just the other way.

c4 can destroy 450 resources where as a tank can destroy un-limted amount of resources

Who said takign out tanks with LA is so easy? Also I agree with the MBT resource costs being too high. In terms of killing potential, you are deluded if you think C4 has greater killing potential than MBT.

a few people have commented on how easy it is to C4 tanks as LA and how it doesnt require skill, i personally disagree with this.

And i am saying that the MBT has more killing potential than C4

C4 is so op, you only have to use it once to kill one thing, meanwhile tanks have to shoot lots to kill lots of things. The LA only has to run through an entire battlefield undetected and drop it on you, while a tank has to sit on a hill and fire at the spawn room. So unfair. And if they arent running through the battlefield, they are respawning at another location and coming up behind you like cheaters. In the time it takes for them to run from another spawn point to attempt to blow up my tank they are making SO many certs/minute.

Its just not fair. C4 and jumpjets should just be removed, they make zerging a spawn room so annoying having to actually pay attention while you spam left click the doors.

LA should just be like heavy assaults with no heavy weapons and shields.

Toplel.
Theorem of Expected Value means that no matter how well I play, no matter how well I watch my back, eventually a LA will get through, and I will lose my tank.
Once that C4 sticks to my tank, whether you're alive or dead, my tank becomes worthless.

Or you'll be hit by another tank, or a mass of HAs, or engineers, or suicide engineer miners. I use my tank primarily for countering VS/TR zergs, coz Vehicle zergs never clash for some mysterious reason (COWARDS!!!111).

Generally it's either that or spawnmashing for most players.

Things are fine as they are.

So here we are again. Except this time the resource costs for armor are higher now. As someone said c-4 should less dmg to armor. I say 75%. Sure throwing 2 c-4 on anything and making it disperse is all fun and stuff but its getting old and isnt really helping new players who want to play armor. Not everyone on a tank has spidey senses. I rairly get c-4ed now since i tend to look everywhere but you cant stop the c-4 fairys that make it their no life mission to fly an esf by you then jump out so where near and ninja there way to you to c-4 you where you would least expect it. All they got to do is throw 2 little rectangles that shouldnt even be doing that much dmg to pwn a tank.

So please soe since you ***** dedicated armor players. Make c-4 do 75% of its dmg to armor.

People still use the resource cost to justify the C4? Are you forgetting that C4 can be stocked? You'll never run out of C4 unless you use them in every single battle you participate in.

Even if it was a decent argument, even if it was balanced, it's still not a fun game mechanic. Instant kills in a game with long TTKs are rarely fun, even less when you've invested points and effort into it. Yeah, dying isn't fun, but there's a gigantic difference between having a small chance and having no chance, there's a tremendous difference between fighting to death and just dying. I say, decrease C4 carrying capacity to one and balance the game from there, decrease vehicle health if you have to. That way, you can sneak up to tanks and deal heavy damage, but it's not an instant kill. You need to have someone else firing on the tank in order to instantly wreck it. Teamplay.