The state of PS2 and what I feel must change.

I really think there are specific parts of Buzz's post that NEED TO BE IMPLEMENTED IMMEDIATELY, specifically the server merging considering the metagame has evolved into this "stay in one area and farm because everyone else is there and you'll get XP faster" is really KILLING the game and everyday I feel we're losing more and more people because of this. It's especially bad because there are TWO MORE CONTINENTS and everyone is acting like it's still just Indar like it was in Beta. It's tough to say whether transferring new players to the server to the point of overflow would change this or changing Indar itself to not have that center of turmoil. I myself think that it is more of a population issue and if people actually saw others in significant numbers play on another continent they wouldn't think twice about jumping ship to Esamir or Amerish.

+1 for server merg

I like these ideas for the most part. I just find instant action as it is now is a good tool with some coordination (a few times a day) although i definitely can see the point that OP is making for the newer or solo players. I really do hope SOE take note of the post and not just empty acknowledgement .
Also I love the cert idea about armour and vehicle weapons. Jesus this game is so grindy, I know someone will make the point that if they make unlocks too quick people will leave, if a game is as compelling as it should be, that should not be so. Also they could find a nice balance to please people who only play for unlocks and those who appreciate unlocks but love the game itself.

And please, SOE, take note about the server merges its probably the most important thing for the life of this game. I am lucky to be on miller where I can have a lot of fun on any continent (oh god i hate indar) but reading posts about how quiet other servers are its rather sad. Makes me feel sorry for the smaller servers.

i can't wait for their to be 5-6 continents so we can actually lock indar, and forcibly move the fight elsewhere

Either or. I suggest and support both. I said that earlier in the thread.

Remember that we want them out of there - I don't care how we get them out of there but we want them out the moment that SCU goes down.

You should. Fair few people pointed out the serious flaws with his proposals.

It boggles my mind how many people keep calling for mergers instead of transfers. Both are wrong.

Each character name is unique , why not just allow you to pick a character then choose a server?

As an added bonus have your account remember the last faction you played on each server and only let you take another faction character on if you've not played that server for 48 hours.

Dealing with the population issues - Good.

Lots of people have been asking for this for a while.

SCU - Stuff, meh. Base by base thing. Seems unnecessary and inappropriate for bases in which there is not a well defied 'keep' to take. Even then the reason it works in the big bases is despite taking the 'keep' by taking down the SCU, you have satalite bases to fight in from if your the defender. How destroying an SCU would add to a cap of (that is unless you go with the idea of basically making it possible to plonk invisible spawn points down all over the place) any of the smaller bases. E.g Jaegers Crossing.

Lattice - terrible idea, harked on about by far too nostalgic ps1 vets. Turning the strategic game to force the tactical game into a giant corridor shooter between 2 or more zergs, Force every engagement to be linear zergyfest, expect more people moaning about their fps - bad.

Furthermore, the problems the lattice suggestion are trying to adress, you guessed it. Population distribution issues. A game with problems the depth of involvement, really.. really doesn't need more linearity. Its just a bad idea.

Getting out of the spawn stuff - only seems necessary if you reguarly indulge in meth, so they get to camp the spawns and use it as a base of fire. Big deal? Just throw them all out into the people camping for them to die aint better. It just speeds up the zerg trundeling along to the next base. You might as well argue, as soon as more than 40 people are on point all the opposing forces die and the cap goes through instantly. All hail the swarm man!

Indar bit- issue more of sever population than anything else.

The stuff that shifts the balance so heavily to infantry combat it makes vehicles and air strictly auxiliary, to wit cloaked sundies, default flak, faster shield regen, hell he might as well argue nerf explosions buff flesh - bad.

In many ways a lot the points about game balanced that have been ninajed into this large thesis, rest on a I beleive the false premise that 'you should allways have a chance to survive' its a giant combined arms warfare game. sometimes you just explode, or get sniped, and you die. I think a lot of e-ego's need to get to drips with that. Indeed, most engagements cannot be reduced to you looking into your opponents eyes in a tests of true valor or courage.

People are not thinking it through, frankly.

Maybe you don't agree with all his points(even though from what you post it feels like you don't agree with anything at all...ever...but that's another issue),even i don't agree with everything,but the fact of the matter is that he pointed out flaws with the game and offered really good solutions. The only thing that i seriously don't know if it would be a good change is SCUs at small bases(the crown needs an SCU,might even stop the mindless farm). Everything else ? It can only do good and improve the game if you ask me.

There not good solutions. I've argued why in a fair bit of depth at this point. Mostly around page 20 I believe.

A huge thrust of his argument is about making the game far more linear (he's essentially argueing for PS1's strategic framework, meaning you can basically be in a linaer fight or run around in essence pointlessly), far more zergy and far more infantry based. Thus ironically, overall more like combat at the crown.

Also it just confuses me that people are supporting it all, stuff like default flak armour and cloaked sundies without thinking though the implications of how they would effect the balance of play. You say these things would improve the game - how? why? I don't see how making vehicle and air combat a largely irrelevant slideshow makes the game better. Instead every base cap not only dictated to you by an arbitrary game mechnic (the lattice) where it has to be and becomes a giant laser tag battle revolving around 'find the magical hidden sundy'.

Indeed, it shuts down a lot of game-play for me. A lot. Flanking maneuvers, hardpointing bases. Large tank battles on open terrain, made irrelevant.

As i've said, extensively. The problems with the game, by and large result from underpopulated servers. These are not the solutions needed, and they practically lobotomize the game at the both the combined arms and strategic level

You say that as if the lattice system only creates a narrow corridor through which the zerg can walk to get to other areas. You can still walk all around the map and flank and whatnot. But you can cap less bases to assure that a fight will be going on somewhere.
Or do you just enjoy ghost capping and that's why you are against it ? Because as the system is now that's what is going on. Some random dudes just fly around in an ESF or drive a flash around and switch points and then leave. It's sure fun to clean up after them... Last sentence might contain an unhealthy amount of sarcasm.

You can assure that a fight will be going on somewhere by making the facilities *matter*. Right now, only the Tech Plants really do, and even them not much.

You can stop ghost capping by requiring a (small) force to actually sit at the cap point to take it over (unless you conquered every territory around this one, I guess, to make cleaning up empty pockets easier) and you can make it unrewarding as cert gathering method by limiting the XP gained to the amount of opposition encountered. No fight = no XP.

Neither of these require the corset of a lattice system.

By and large its what it did in PS1. the primary difference being there were only 133 per side per map. So, by my metrics at least, fairly small zergs.

You will be able to flank around a point that is in contention and attack it from a different direction, every other option at a strategic and operational level is ruled out.

As I've said no, so many times I am nauseating myself/ The 'system' as it is now, is a population issue. what im suggesting, lateral strategic movements, yes sometimes can come up against ghost caps. Not the funnest, however on Miller at prime time. By and large its a rare day when you don't make some contact and then this snowballs. Often if a outfit or two gets involved.

In short what is hindering the development of non-linear battles, is the lack of people.

On most severs people seem to just fight around the crown, not because of any particular game mechanics, but because there's not enough people for their to reliably by convention be a fight anywhere else.

Its why, I've been going on and on about this, I see people on this forum go on over and over about what is not really game mechanics. Its simply human behavior and severs being underpopulation. The game mechanics as they are now, if people are simply willing to play the objective and get creative about it, allow all sorts of crazy ****.

When a server reaches 'high' and 2/3 maps are regularly full, the game mechanics as they are, allow for a lot of emergent gameplay. There appears to just be some magic point around 5000 people online, where the crownfest just becomes one show of many. And people and oufits zip around the map to be involved in several fights. Indeed the biggest problem here, is getting

1) When zergs form, getting them to defend
2) Getting the zergs to stop avoiding each other.

So his proposals might engage with these, sure. but they do in a way that drastically as i've said lobotomizes the operational and strategic level of play in the game. Subtler interventions, called in policy circles 'nudges' like increase Xp bonuses for defense and based on the size of the battle, would encourage large battles.

That being said, 3 outfits on miller plonk themselves down at location X, give a few /orders out 3/5 times massive battle commence. Proving the sort fo things his proposal sets to achieve by altering game mechanics ARE POSSIBLE IN THE GAME AS IT IS NOW. - population IS THE ISSUE

A lot of what buzz is suggesting (beyond the silly nerf explosions, buff flesh - invisible party bus hunt stuff) several limits the rules.

Its a observation , from things like conways game of life - simpler the rules - greater space for emergent behavior (and people here are not fundamentally different). More rules, more limitations. Actually less involving gameplay.


But hey, im just trying to turn this into an actual debate as opposed to 400 pages of /sinzored.

I hope people are reading all of it before they Thumb it up and say they agree. Because honestly some will have unintentional consequences which might actually degrade gameplay and some even reduce player freedom.

There's also a population issue,that's extremely obvious. But on the other hand i have never seen someone from SOE saying that they are planning to merge servers. They will offer transfer tokens for a decent amount of SC ofc.

They think that will solve the issue. What do i think will happen ? A lot of people will leave in disgust because they are forced to pay to get what their game is supposed to offer by default,even more people will leave because their server died or just became imbalanced severely after people switched around,and just a few will pay up to try and find some action. And that will probably be the last thing of note that will happen in this game before it dies. It's a sad and slow trainwreck but all we can do is watch.

I think motentizing the issue is a terrible idea on there part.

And given that the friends list and /tell clearly works across servers. I think the issue of merging and/or unbinding charaters to servers. Is really not a serious problem.

I think what si largely holding it up, is them preparing for the launch in china - i.e I think they want to see how this will effect server pops on the U.S west coast and Briggs.

but yes- thats at the bottom of all this issue. I am happy to stick my flag firmly in the idea that if more servers could be brought to Miller - 'high' level. Lot of the problems go away.

More linearity is a bad aid (indeed a bad one, likely to make you get an infection) to the larger problem. Less people, well lets remove the number of places they can try and fight in so theres more at one location.


And again, I stress peopel need to pay more attention to and consider the balance implications of a lot of his smaller proposals he's tacked on. invisible sundy hunt and nerfing explosions are two I think most people... actually... wouldn't agree to if they went into the game tomorrow.

A lot of people really are not. If they are, there not thinking about it.

But there are enclave members and PS1 vets desperate to have the lattice back who are supporting it. Clearly its derisive.

Agree .. I think a few of the suggestions tackle the symptoms rather than the real problems

Ok this is my real first post and I'm not going to read 41-42pages of rehash and/or flame. This is strictly my response to the OP and his suggestions with a few tweaks.

In regards to the OP's first suggestion on the flow of battle I agree on the idea of creating a pain field once the SCU is destroyed. I also agree on the reducing a player's choice on where to spawn next. However this would also include any own substations of a major plant and the attached next hex re-spawn points.

As for the second suggestion in reference to the cap points and timer I would tweak his suggestion. I would keep the cap numbers as is BUT make it required that max people are on the cap for it to run the timer. The timer would not move at all if max cap is not kept at all times during the flipping process. This would eliminate "ghost caps" and would force people to the caps instead for spawn rooms only. I do agree that the timer should be standardized but by the size of the facility so (and this is just an example) main plants 20 minutes, tower (3 cap points A,B & c) 15 minutes and small facilities maybe 10 minutes. I would also suggest the removal of the progress bar and change it to a timer with a countdown. If capping starts and one person leaves the cap to make it 5 of 6 the timer should either pause or reset. Also if you lose the connecting location the cap fails and resets until you are connected to your warp gate again. Yes I realize this could and probable would be abused but it's still better then the game as is right now.

Now for the third OP suggest well I would agree however he fails to note how the system would identify a newbie or casual player. What makes a new person new is one that has just made if first character but how long does that person stay new? Again I suggest a tweak to the OP's idea and give them to BR15 or 20. However this would be cut to BR5 if said player goes and makes a different character on the same server or a different server. I truly feel a limit must be set to ensure that new players learn how to use the system while at the same time making it to where the player would never see anything other then a fight at the crown(more on this next)!

So the OP suggests putting in an scu on the crown well 2 thumbs up from me on that part. I would also agree that Indar does need a redo heck the SW warp gate is by far this easiest to move out of and the idea of 3 different types of terrain coming out of each warp gate seems out of place. Heck you go for lush green grass with trees to desert canyons to mountain climbs that are best to use air vehicles to get out of. As for Amerish being the best example I would tend to disagree. When Air is you're best choice to move from location to location then something is not right. I do like how the roads force you on a path 90% of the time but I feel there needs to be a tunnel through some of those mountains or at least some shortcuts that can be found to make the travel time a lot less.

Next on the list is merging of the servers. Oh thank you for bringing this one up! Luckily I'm on Connery which isn't going to die anytime soon but wow I feel for those other servers. I can't remember which mmo it was but when server transfers where made available it's was only to the worst offenders(server wise). Basically it was the devs tell that serve to get off and go to this one, this one or that one only before we shut this one down! Please do this and while we're at it why was the decision made to allow multiple characters on the same server. This only created a whole new problem by allow players to flip flop factions to the new perceived overpowered faction of the week/month. Players must be forced to pick a faction and be loyal to that faction on that server!

Number six the no deploy & cloak bubble!? Really agree with the no deploy as suggested however this needs to be a two sided road. If the attackers can't deploy in an area then the defenders should not be able to either. As for the cloak bubble I disagree. Currently I run a mine guard ams sunder which basically kills any idea that the lone engineer is going to get some easy xp out of me. However I also gun my sunder when I deploy it as I find this to be required to ensure to stays as a location to spawn as long a possible. As for c4 it takes 3 bricks (which last I check no single person can carry) or 2 bricks and a rocket. This means it would have to be a HA to do it solo but good luck getting that close with a bulldog pounding on you. I also communicate via proximity requesting repairs by those spawning when I do take damage. Besides that once a single smart solider communicates the location of a deployed enemy sunder a cloak would not stop it from be attacked.

OK now for the easy part annoyances:

Shack agree...it's way too much at moment
Flinch well OP makes a good point
Flak disagree I run nano when in a bio lab, flak when outside, nano once inside a bases walls.
Automated turrets I do agree on the use of them but with my tweak to capping there would not be ghost capping anymore.
Resources well it's a little hard to follow I think I understand what he means. To me the crown is a worthless place to take besides bragging rights so add a bonus to own a location would go a long way to make me feel like attacking it.
Outfit play & community growth...well a VR is on the road map but I was shocked when it wasn't already in game when I first started. I believe the devs are listening on this matter and are working to trying to give us the best tools they can. Just don't let us down guys.
Lattice system....never could play PS1 since I had no more so I can't comment on this.

God this felt good to vent all this out. Thanks again OP for taking the time to make your post.

I really think the people who agree 100% with everything that Buzz says need to actually think about the impact that the changes he proposes would have on their game and would they really improve it? My guess is no.

In my eyes there are 2 things Sony needs to do to make the current game experience better.

1. Server Populations. I don't know how they do it but they MUST get the populations sorted, be that mergers, transfers or server closures. Miller is an awsome server because we are not stuck on Indar if you want a fight, they occur on all 3 continents and apart from Vanu holding Indar for the last month all the other continents can and do change ownership on a near daily basis so they have a template for the kind of population distribution they need for an active healthy server so take that information and distribute the lower pop servers to other servers to give as many servers as possible the same population balance as Miller has then every server gets great battles that happen on all 3 continents pretty much at any time.

2. Base Capping - remove the ability for 1 player to cap a base. If you want 6 people to give the maximum speed of capture that's fine, make it so that you are required to get 6 people onto the base capture point to start the timer but once that is done it takes a pre-determined length of time for a base to flip and no one is required to be on the capture point, however if the base is friendly it only takes 1 player to recap the point and reverse the cap timer which again flows back at the same pre-determined rate.

This thread is good for the debate, bad for the blind following of a well known players own personal opinions of what's needed to be done to "fix" the game.