The problem isn't that Scattermaxes are good the problem is that AI weapons do too much damage to a max. An enemy max should last more than a few seconds against another AI max but should go down quickly to another AV max. What's the use of all that armour if you die almost as quickly as a heavy to AI weapons Two maxes with AI weapons should take time to kill each other but should go down fast to AV weapons Solution give maxes 70 - 80% resistance to AI weapons and 30% vulnerability to AV weapons ( and let AV weapons lock on them ) PS I find a flash harder to kill with AI weapons than a max which is silly
I could get behind that... if you're talking specifically about MAX AI weapons. TR DC MAX is just fine. They are plenty formidable. I have no idea about the VS MAX... I wasn't aware VS were allowed to get out of their Magriders and Scythes.
Make the VS/TR maxes better at killing infantry, and make the NC max worse at killing other maxes, that should be good enough.
Crytek if you like NC weapons then play them also flashbangs blind maxes to. And a TR max with cyclers can kill an NC max at close range IF they catch it starting a reload......
first of all: I never said I wanted NC weaponry, I said they were far to numerically superior. Second: If they both have full health, the NC MAX will survive long enough to reload and then finish the TR max off.. sure you can come in and pick off a wounded NC MAX who's reloading, but if he's wounded and reloading, that means he probably just chewed through 3-4 people or your buddy MAX. That's not even looking into that; if you had that much help, he probably does as well. Third: flashbangs are relevant to a MAX on MAX discussion in what case? All these things that other classes have access to, just so happens to work against ALL MAXes, not NC MAXes specifically.
battlerank is good indicator how much player X have certifications 1 vs 1 between br1 and br 40 is not even near equal situation, cos of full flak/nano armors, med packs ,weapon attacments and so on .
NC Scattermaxes are effective vs TR/VS max, however they cant perform suppression fire against hordes of infantries. with 7 rounds before reloading, not long before you realized that you are been surrounded by enemy infantry. Its role is very limited to corridor lockdown and max duels, where enemies would rush in a single file. i seen a pair of TR MAX cyclers hold off a zerg rush of infantry and solo max in biolab far better than any NC max, thanks to the high rate of fire. Its a rare occasion to go against max 1 on 1, most conditions that max were used are in hordes of infantry rush areas where you are more likely to be surrounded and murdered by regular infantry. From my perspective its much more to personal play style, if your the type who shoots and runs away to reload, NC max is prefer, if your the guy who spray and pray and prefer stationary camping - TR/NC.
suppressive fire does not = instantly killing the first 3-4 dudes (or a MAX) who walk in a door. Or the ability to instantly flush out a gen/point room because people collectively **** themselves when they see a NC MAX (or get vaporized because they decided to stay) Second you can upgrade those 7 rounds with extended magazine, is it expensive? yes no doubt there, is it the only of the 3 factions who have the ability to upgrade their guns in a manner that directly impacts their damage? yes.. Why is that?.. The thing about TR/VS holding off zergs coming out of the same door/jump pad over and over, that job is easily filled by a few abundant (and free) engineers with turrets. Or hell just normal infantry, since 1 HA is about as effective at killing dudes as 1 TR/VS MAX. And it all boils down to this: NC receives 2 shotguns, shotguns are limited in ammo so having 2 of them makes them a lot more potent, second the MAX unit is currently the best platform for delivering shotgun fire to an enemy because A: he can soak up enough damage to get into CQC and B: he has charge to get him between cover. Meanwhile TR/VS get two halves of a gun, which is already in abundance due to normal infantry (each effectively having the same killing power as a MAX, but their range going out further because of iron sight). On top of that: TR/VS cannot upgrade their guns in a manner that will directly affect their damage, like the NC can. There's a difference between play style and the numbers just being stacked against you. Unless someone here would argue that shotguns in the game are so terrible that you need 2 for every carbine/LMG/AR people bring <_<. Give TR/VS the option to get red dot/different ammo types, like you get extended magazine/slug ammo. (Possibly give them iron sight or more likely: A fire mode that allows them to be more accuracy, maybe give them the option to shift to semi-automatic for more accuracy) Make the weapons effectiveness meet halfway by buffing TR/VS refire rate by roughly 20-25%, nerf the NC refire rate by 25%, you still retain your alpha strike, you still hurt like hell, but you cannot chew through people quite as fast (but then again 25% is not a huge deal, we're talking less than a second more to empty your clips) This way you'd at least have slow shotguns vs slow LMG's that can't ironsight. Both with upgrades available and equally slow when compared to stock weaponry. And both having 50% more killing power than a normal infantry man, instead of TR/VS having about the same, while NC have 100% more. Even then it would be stacked in the NC's favor because of base designs, but I can live with that.
I've given it some time before returning to see whether you'd actually taken up the challenge. 1) So, have you actually gone and trialled an NC max with dual ai guns? As far as I can see, you keep spouting on about the number of fully functional guns we have, but you haven't even bothered to go test them scientifically for yourself. It'd only take 30 minutes - you've spent much more than that just on this thread. 2) Post some numbers. There's a very accurate data set here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&gid=12 This gives all the numbers for shotguns, LMGs, etc. I want you to go away and come back with some real numbers for your TR max. You might well be right about your gun "only being half as effective as a single LMG", but until you've got the numbers behind it your argument is based on your gut feel. Go get some dps data and we can all then better evaluate how your guns equate? 3) Slugs are horrid in CQC; autofire and your recoil/cof goes all over the place. Try it; it offers very little benefit up close (actually it's worse), and the advantage at range is negated if you quick fire. Slugs (imo) are better on the Scatter than the Hacksaw, and you use the scatter as a heavy pistol for fleeing opponents. TR have that ability naturally?
Heres one, why should TR/VS infantry get shotguns. Isn't that the NC trait?? Lets, buff the TR/VS max by giving them a short range ammo for there sprayers of death, reduce mag size, reduce ammo size so they are good at short range and suck at med/long. Is that what you want? But then NC would need something with more mag size, more ammo capacity and effective 10-30m (no not slugs they suck) but maybe No 1 or 2 buckshot not the dam no 6 birdshot used at short range.
Yes I have, several times as a matter of fact, they work exactly like 2 shotguns, with the added factor that you can survive walking up to some one and charge away/to them, means you can beat some serious ***, as long as you don't get over confident and charge more people than you can either handle yourself, or your allies can pick up for you, then you're good. (And I love the aesthetics and design of the NC MAX, so it's not like I did it reluctantly ) But to put some actual numbers out there, here: Let's just take the Orion/T9 Carv: 143 damage (same as heavy cyclers) and 750 rpm (like a lot of carbines, AR and LMG) 750 rounds per minute = 12.5 rounds per second there's 1000 miliseconds to a second, so that's 1000/12.5 = 80 milliseconds refire rate. So let's look at the MAX weapon stats found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Amnj8jnZLDIOdEx6azNNdVozRmxLVkI2WnZmS2NqV1E&output=html Heavy cycler: damage: 143, refire rate: 150 ms or 1000/150 = 6.6 rounds per second 6.6*60 = 400 rpm Almost 50% when we take a stock weapon to compare with. The Quasar is just as bad Let's compare this to the NC Anchor (since it does 167 damage like the Quasar) it has 600 rpm 600/60=10 1000/10= 100ms Quasars refire rate is: 178 ms 1000/178=5.6 rounds per second 5.6*60= 337 rounds per minute. Again, almost 50% worse refire rate. I did not start a thread about refire rate, without looking at the numbers first. But just in case you don't believe shotguns and scatter cannons arn't alike here: Hacksaw: Damage per pellet: 143, pellets: 6, Refire rate: 200 ms 1000/200=5 rounds per second 5*60=300 rounds per minute Piston: damage per pellet: 143, pellets: 6, rpm: 300 300/60=5 1000/5= 200 ms So the same. Let's look at a stock Scatter cannon: Damage per pellet: 143, pellets: 6, Refire rate: 240 ms 1000/240=4.16 4.16*60=250 rpm Mauler: Damage per pellet: 143, pellets: 6, 250 rpm.. I'm not even going to bother with the Math again at this point. The change I'm proposing would leave MAXes with: Heavy cycler: 500 rounds per minute Quasar: 421 rounds per minute scattercannon: 187.5 rounds per minute/hacksaw: 225 rounds per minute That and the ability to cert red dot for 500 certs, just like you can do a straight upgrade, on your killing power with extended magazine.
Musta certed Wall of Text 5. But congrats, You've now joined the ranks of Figment, P0intman and Buzz for unnecessarily long threads that accomplish nothing but solidify to yourself your own ideal.
Am I reading the chart right when it says the Max has 1/5th the recoil of the T9Carv, and half the CoF whilst still? Raw DPS does look to be 56.3% of an LMG assuming you have perfect aim with both guns (hip fire)... but favours a max if you don't. Clearly you are losing ADS which is probably better on a machine gun than a shotgun. So twin guns give you an accurate LMG so long as you don't engage at scope range, with more capacity, but not 2x the damage output. Well; I don't know how that translates to real world gaming tbh. Maybe the devs just don't want instagib to occur at 60 metres?
Wut? The Mercy guns are far better than any crappy TR LMG, so the TR MAX ends up being a death machine.....and I'm happy with that. I can easily slaughter 15-20 guys in one sitting, so to want that to be buffed? No thanks, that would kill the game.
You already have that this is the stock SAW with just a scope: This is the SAW when it has a foreward grip: The thing has no recoil, is super accurate and hits like a truck, so please stop trying to bring irrelevant things into the discussion.
Didn't know about that, nice. I wonder if it's vestigial/indicative of new features to come as the game gets finished?
