Ogres vs. Dwarves: Who Will Be Next in The Workshop?

CoH might be my favorite MMO for several reasons. Considering that CoH came out about 6 months or so before WoW and EQ2 it had very impressive character creation and customization. It only got better as time when on even with the limits that its tech placed upon it. I can still spend hours in Icon just playing with costume options and building characters.

Right? Even the guy wearing the robe who looks like he could be some sort of spellcaster has some MASSIVE epaulettes on. It looks totally ridiculous imo.

They are short Dwarves, of course they have to overcompensate, duh.
But maybe the shoulderpads only seem so big because they are smaller but have the same broadness of shoulders to cover as larger races?

I actually think they do this to appeal to men rather than women, the whole power fantasy deal. The IAMTUFFGUY trope does not appeal, it's mostly just obnoxious, like WoW orcs or night elves, it just gets a little gross with the over-muscley-macho. Except maybe for skyrim. Those humans can be tough all they want. Especially in that strappy leather viking armor.

That's kinda beside the point though, I agree that there should be more representative choices. After a certain point it just makes you feel invisible. I don't particularly buy the not-enough-dev-time-resources-blahblah excuse either. If they cared, they could do it.

I voted Dwarf too. How many times do we vote out dwarves before those who love them become disheartened?

This x100, this is exactly how I feel about it!


Also, regretting voting ogre a bit now, I'm having dorfy ideas. Hard to carry out ideas, but ideas nonetheless. Crystal caverns. Diamond relics. Dwarves + Desert climate? Petra-like monuments.

Ok... I know I like ogres more but really...

Dwarves...Rally your friends. Rally your allies. Rally your co-workers if you have to.

Some of the die-hard Dwarf community are saying a few things:

1. If we (Dwarfs) lose the workshop vote, we're gonna do our own Workshop, with Dwarfs, and Beer. We've got streamers and everything.

2. If we (Dwarfs) lose the workshop vote, push to have the Dwarfs pulled entirely out of all polls and have them as the last race in the workshop, because we don't want to see Dwarfs consistently lose. It's already been 2 polls, and this will be the third if the trend continues.

3. Win or lose, we are establishing a Dwarf community on Rebellion Spine, dubbed the Butcherblock Mountains, because sticking together across islands and servers is important to build a good Dwarf community.

4. If we (Dwarfs) lose again, the lore / design team should take the opportunity to actually look at the Dwarfs and consider why they have lost 3 times in a row. Let's be honest, you can't say "Well, it's because people just want to vote for other races". Looking through the thread, people tend to vote for what they believe will be the most interesting to build. While in the Workshop we're supposed to be building for that race, if the initial direction is bad, then there is no spark.

This is a great point, and highlights perfectly what's really hampering Dwarfs in this poll. The concept art is just uninspiring. There are few unique / impressive features compared to the Ogre art. The Ogre building has columns, doorways, planters, spikes, and much more detail that opens more avenues for building, whereas the Dwarf building has very limited features - corners, rivets, recessed angled openings, roofing style.

Dwarf building typically incorporates heavily from monumentalism, and has very few real world comparisons in architectural style. Whereas Ogres can be seen as Egyptian, or Hellenic, or even Middle Eastern, the Dwarf example doesn't really have any nonfictional influences.


I really think if Dwarfs are to win a poll, the community will have to drive, very hard the direction of the Dwarfs, and if Dwarfs lose, SOE should reevaluate the direction the race is going.

I'm all for dwarves/dwarfs/shortfatbeards, they're probably my favorite fantasy race, but they've lost 2 and maybe three times now because everyone knows what they're going to get when it comes to them. They're typecasted to hell. Combine that with them not being popular in the first place, and there you have it. Ogres this time are a complete 180 to what they typically are, so they're pretty damned interesting as well.

They're just polls. Though, I think whoever lost the poll should have their 15 minutes of workshop fame after the winner. Else you'll probably not see the dwarves until long after open beta starts.

I firmly believe people vote based on what they think is sexy. I don't necessarily mean based on what they want to have sex with, but rather what stands out as most interesting and appealing to them. Both the Teir'Dal and the Kerran were more interesting choices than the Dwarves. More attractive, more exotic, more distinct from the norm, newer and fresher, whatever; they had a wow factor that a rehash of the standard fantasy Dwarves didn't have. So Dwarves seem boring and stale in comparison, and Dwarves lost.

I think this time around not only do the Ogres have a fresh and interesting look and feel to them, they have a short story selling that new look and feel timed to coincide with this poll. I don't mean to say that the devs purposefully skewed the poll by releasing the story, maybe they did but I sincerely doubt it was planned out like that. In the end, though, either way the Dwarves we've seen are still just Dwarves. So which do more people think are 'sexy' this time around, which has that wow factor? New and interesting Ogres, or the same ol' Dwarves? Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that explains the polls so far.

I want to add, though, there is nothing wrong with Dwarves being the fairly standard fantasy offering. People like Dwarves in so many games because they're Dwarves so keep them Dwaves. Great, but that might mean they lose a lot of polls to the new and shiny stuff. Perhaps if they lose this time, though, next time the devs could try to sell them a bit harder with a story or an in depth look in their lore for Next.

Meanwhile \m/Ogres\m/

Vote Dwarves. Even if you like Ogres, vote Dwarves.

Why? With every race, more things have been added. More textures, more props, more...more.

Had I known chains, Holloween props, new iron textures, etc. would be added later, I would have voted Dwarves right off the bat. Look at the Dark Elf stuff compared to the Kerran stuff. If we keep voting for the races other than Dwarves, Dwarves will have the best looking builds.

I am already depressed to know the Dwarven builds will blow the Dark Elf builds out of the water, let's not make the same mistake with Ogres.

I can imagine very Petra-inspired ogre structures, too, though!

Hmm, good point. They do seem to want to go with the Roman references too, that could work out really well. Add some ogre-y cloth banners to it, roughen it up a bit.

PM: SOE Developers

Oct. 22 for Ogres (Dwarves)
Nov. 20 for Dwarves (Ogres)
1st or 2nd week of January for the Race to see which builds were the best
two weeks Later Vote and what builds won the race
last week of Jan or first week in Feb start building. really how hard is it SOE
that doesn't mean that both can't start together building it means it gives SOE ability to talk about both out on they're own time and gives everyone the whole 2 or 3 month time to do both races in the time they gave the Kerrian.

this is an idea and believe me in all cases SOE can say No. I really hope SOE reads this

Can we finally see a different take on Dwarves for once?

Mongols are nomads, yurts, their armor... everything screams nomad...
I absolutly dont see ogres as nomads. A race like ratonga would make good nomads esepcially if you add some kind of sewer-rat-flavor to them... Nomands go with the flow they go around obstacles like water flows around a rock... Ogres are the rock however, and as a rock they look more autentic with gladiator armor they punch you in the face if you try to oppose them... they build strong unmovable structures with raw materials, whole logs and big rocks only they can lift... they dont live in flimsy tents, cause if they'd move while alseep they'd break the tent...

Ogre's new look have indeed been trumpeted up.

"Razor's Edge" is not the first Ogre story.
There are 2 parts of "The Enemy of my Enemy" and besides ogres play a significant role in "The Fall of Bastion"
with Brozka's group noble sacrifice.

Dwarves on the other hand... we have Rastimund in "The Stars of Home", but it is not a story about dwarves.
It could have been a froglock or a gnome, for example, without any changes to the course and outcome of the story.

I hope there are plans for books about dwarves, presenting us their heroes - unmatched crafters,
unyielding warriors and devoted clerics - focusing on their good qualities and their story.

I liked both CoH and CoV--and the character creation system was awesome. I spent hours just playing with character concepts. There hasn't been a game (IMO) that has equaled the variety they had.

The Dwarves in The Hobbit had a very strong comedic element, yes.... but that was a children's story that originally had no real connection to the larger themes and content of Middle-Earth. Certainly a far cry from the Dwarves who murdered Elu Thingol out of a desire to possess the Nauglamir and the Silmaril in it.


In the movies, the way that Thorin (or Balin) is portrayed seems more (IMO) Dwarvish.. Balin has some comedic elements, but they are more subtle and less slapstick. You get the feeling that he is somewhat more relaxed than Thorin is (perhaps because of his age and experience--plus the fact that he isn't the Heir of Durin).

At the request of several builders I paid a visit to EQ so we could take a look at the original Ogre architecture and design.