How do you feel about modern concepts like guns and Ninjas in EverQuest Next?

Your challenge wasn't to create all new class names, it was to name 50 Classes. You challenge has been accepted and met.

Ninjas have a completely different martial arts style and type of magic from monks. You can't just give a rogue some monk skills and call it a ninja.

IMO, anyone mildly creative or informed can see how ninjas can easily bring their own unique set of skills to the table.

was keeping it to firearms(guns) instead of all gunpowder weapons in general.. but yes cannons, hand cannons, and fire lances were around 10-12th century China.. possibly some unrecorded earlier since gunpowder was 9th century China

As far as you quoting Darrin McPherson, he said Each CLASS has 2 types or a pair of weapons to choice from and 4 weapon slot skills. He also talks about other classes that might duel wield swords or sword and shield so many options still exist to fit a play style. If I can obtain a new class that can use sword and shield as a warrior what dose that say?

I think it's great your so active and read the tweets, if you get a chance go out to SOE live, I think you would enjoy it. It's a great event to see those panels live and see some behind the sences work. Even talk to a Dev or two! They put on a great show this year, I had a blast!

Just stay away from the roulette tables!

If I want Steampunk I will go play FF14

Simply labeling something a trope is not a valid argument here, and even so I don't think you or anyone gets to invent what is or isn't a trope.

Truth be told, ninjas have been in Norrath since 1999, they simply did not want you to know they where there.

My knee jerk opinion on firearms was no, then I considered how much fun I had with the engineer in GW2. The concept could work, so long as it was implemented well, and in such a way that even lorewise firearms can be believably an option to ones weaponry in lieu of the mainstay of every culture. That would be the true challenge.

First off, Let me state that I have little experience with EQhaving recently made a ranger(level 16). Secondly, I have more experience with D&D and WoW. my comments are based off of what i know of history, D&D and Television.

I was going to agree about using the blunderbuss and similar firearms, but you have a very valid point about it being prequel. If the "modern" Norrath doesn't have any firearms, the closest thing i would consider applicable would be crossbows.

Let's continue on with your logic but change a few terms and see where it goes. Going back to historical earth, the Ninja was not just a warrior with rogue skills, they were an assassin. but can't any class be an assassin? technically, yes, however, if we start dissecting the use and skills of the ninja, we come up with a few points such as:

*Weapon skills; Sword(katana), Dagger(Sai), Staff, Pole-arm, thrown weapons(star), Whips(weighted chains), Specific Weapons(Kama, Nunchucku, Singham), Unarmed
*Stealth; simply hiding, completely disappearing, Skulking in the shadows.
*Infiltration; Wall climbing, Breaking and entering
*Poison use; Knock-out, Disabling, killing

*NOT Front-Line Combat

All this tells me that the ninja was a rogue and not a warrior. so first of all, set the "Ninja" up as a rogue subclass. possibly treat them as an urban ranger without the animal companion. have their skill sets be situational. give them a few unique abilities and/or weapons. maybe the ability to jump over or roll past an opponent to get into prime position for attacking, or the ability to climb walls in order to attack from above.

I liked your explanation for no ninjas, and I think you illustrate a good point that, even in part, Eastern customs should not be put into this game. EQ is a gritty experience and a harsh world, and I don't think anything like Age of Wushu would be welcomed in the least.

But, it's like I said, and I think everyone in this thread is being too rigid in their thinking, just because you don't have literal concepts of things does not mean you can't find a way to implement similarities. As I said in my long post about the ninjas and guns. Even if they do get in the game, that does not mean they have to be exactly how they are now. I saw someone mentioning a magic shooting gun. That is one example. Steam powered technologies would also work.

As far as ninjas go, I would say ditch the name "ninja" from any class, but that doesn't mean there can't be characteristics sof ninjas, such as covered face, darkly dressed, stealthy, mobile assassins with silent personalities. There are a LOT of things you can add to the game that would fit many descriptions of guns, ninjas, and some modern concepts that would not so much as bend the lore, you just have to look carefully at how you integrate them.

If you read the way the poll is worded then 49% on the hard line NO path is a minority not a majority. The majority lies within the range somewhere between "yes" and "I want more details before I say yes or no".

Haha I didn't mean for current bow using classes to use them. I meant for the weapons to have different gameplay thus requiring a different class! I don't want to change rangers and take anyone's preferred style away from them, I want to add more options so the game appeals to more people. Though, at the rate the poll is going this seems like most don't want this particular change

I am seriously hoping this is sarcasm, if so well played sir, made me lmao.

We hardly know anything about the timeline or lore of EQN at this point. I would wager that is exactly why this question is being asked early in development because they still have the time to build this idea into the lore if people like it. (Or not include it if people don't )

It prob. means that it is the newest addition to the forum and those points come from whar? I don't care about the points as long as it produces good ideas and opinions for people to debate.

It comes from people upvoting or downvoting the thread. See at the top of the page, the main up/down votes for each thread? Right now it's 41 down to 25 up. That's why it's at zero - the downvotes greatly outnumber the upvotes. *shrug* Newest has nothing to do with it. The others don't have anywhere -near- the same amount. The 'Should all Classes' thread has 80 upvotes, and 9 downvotes. That tells you the usual disparity between the two, and how this one differs so greatly.

I'm not for guns and ninja's in EQ Next.

As far as guns, I am absolutely against it in an EQ setting. I mean you could modernize the whole game and we could play Planetside 2 and they could all run around with tanks and guns. Though having guns would be just copying everyone else. I mean we have WOW, Warhammer, Wildstar,GW2 and countless other MMO's (with semi fantasy setting feel) doing the guy with a gun. Don't get me wrong I liked ranged combat in SWTOR. And I liked the run and gun style of combat. But EQ has magic users and even some melee types that do ranged combat. A druid or ranger for kiting or a Necromancer reverse kiting already has that ranged concept covered. Those character types fit the games lore and they provide unique classes.

The only thing I could see is the stereotypical dwarf with a gun. But that would be just to make people who are used to the latest MMO stereotype more comfortable with your dwarf. It would be totally unnecessary and too cookie cutter.

As far as ninja's, EQ already has monks. And all a player has to do is wear a black mask and dye their suit black, or red or white if your a GI Joe fan . Then they can "role play" a ninja. Besides playing a monk who is a ninja, would match playing a ninja better. After all Ninja's are secretive and "they don't exist". So having a class called Ninja's kind of steps on the whole ninja storyline. Unless your going to go all SWTOR on us and spend about 300 million on personal story, I just don't see the benefit of changing the EQ monk into a Ninja.

Ok polls like this dont exactly exude confidence as far as me feeling the devs are going in the right direction with the EQ franchise... Why would they think it would be cool to have ninjas and guns in EQ?

That is exactly my reasoning, guns I still just don't have a place in a high magic, high fantasy setting. It can work and has in other IP's I just think it's a bit of a stretch for Norrath.

The Ninja thing is exactly as you say. I have no issue with what a ninja can do, it's the idea of that 80's B movie cheezy ninja type character. You can create a class very similar in what a ninja could do and just use a different name. Others have shown that already in the posts with 40-50 unique names in them already.

Well said Corwynn.

These polls do not exactly exude confidence from the community. No one seems to keep an open mind and understand they are trying to do things differently then EQ and EQ 2 this is not those games, get over it. Why not have ninja's? Guns are a larger conversation i think but wow had guns and it didn't ruin that game. GW2 has guns and again doesn't seem to ruin it both are high fantasy.

I think it can be done, but definately needs to be discussed on a case by case basis. I like how it's done in the Forgotten Realms D&D setting. Early renaissance firearms are rare and expensive and not much better than a good bow. There is also a gnomish inquisition that guards the secret of smokepowder (gunpowder) carefully. Ninjas exist in the same world as that setting but on a different continent, leaving it up to the gaming group to decide whether one has made it through a portal or someone have traveled to their lands and learned their arts.

That said I totally enjoy low tech settings like Hyboria. I'm a big fan of the original Conan-stories by Robert E Howard (though not a fan of any other incarnations or pastisches that's been produced). In that setting there are no gun powder in that sense, although there is mention of a spellcaster that uses a flammable flash powder to cut off troops in one story. It is however not used in any sort of guns or cannons.

In my opinion it could be pretty awesome if Everquest Next starts out in an age before gunpowder exists, but it can be researched and invented. Say for example that it's so hard that it would take several years of ingame time to do it. Everquest Next could feature a living technological development over the course of years that culminates in the discovery of gunpowder.

That could turn out pretty good in my opinion.

Including ninjas in a game is in my opinion on the same level as including warrior monks. Two similar, mysterious niche groups from Asia. I used to practice Shaolin Gong Fu under a master from the Shaolin temple, in a subordinate official Shaolin school. I have several friends who have trained to high levels in Ninpo Taijutsu. To me neither monks nor ninjas are very mysterious, and don't belong in a fantasy setting as copies of real world counterparts. However if a fantasy game includes warrior monks in an own, original cast and shadowy spies of their own creation be my guest. But as long as they're simple mystified copies of the myth of the real thing it takes away from immersion for me.