Hellos! Whats up with this, was Hurricane to powerful? A nerf on Swashs is hardly needed, if anything we should get ouer lvl 4 (or what ever) stun to work on heroic mobs (get it to be no brake that is).
Anyone know by how much it was reduced? The live AD3 is 88%. If that goes below 80% I'm not gonna be pleased. I don't think it was over powered at all considering how situational it is. I've never been able to leave it up unless I want adds galore.
Alone, i'ts not very powerful. Combined with inspired daring, it's almost over powering (particularly if you get a lot of haste by whatever means). As someone who almost always has it on, I can't say I'm suprised (I always felt some nerf was coming after the CU, just wasn't sure what it would be). I do hope it's still above 80% at a3, though if it goes down to 75% I wouldn't be suprised. Alot of our ability to take down high yellow encounters after 55 comes from this buff. I also have a feeling that duel weilding is making this proc more often than was intended. Can't prove that though, and it does seem that the easiest way to fix that would be to lower the proc rate rather than change how the proc works.
All I know is I can watch some other classes solo ^^^'s that would eat me for lunch but i don't see the skills they use to do that being nerfed. I still have to pay for poison to do dps but oh wait that posion breaks stuns and mez's because every poison in the friggin game has a dot to it. Poison is lost every time i die. It magically evaporates from my weapons. I manage to not become hungry or thirsty when i die but poison evaporates... So many mobs see through sneak it may as well be useless. Almost every named sees through it so rule out opening with backstabs. I can't see a mob that is hiding, but they can sure see me even though they are lower level than me. (or in other words see orcs in clefts). Makes no sense it is safer for me to walk down the middle of the passages than along the walls. Throwing weapons still SUCK. Hurricane has an extremely limited use with the non encounter hitting of mobs. Forget and leave it on in maj'dul sometime then get attacked by a guard, oops citizn add. Or a dervin thief oops citizen add, etc.
Reguardless, without a solid number it is useless to debate this nerf- we can't say if we are over reacting or being totally justified in protesting the gutting of an otherwise solid ability.
Hurricane was causing a lot more damage than it was supposed to. On top of that, with the LU16b changes to dual wield proc rates, I could tell that it would likely get a lot of negative attention by other DPS classes very quickly after LU16 goes live if it wasn't addressed by then. For the next update to test, I'm reducing the cast and recast times on Hurricane so you can toggle it faster as needed.
This isn't a swashie comment, but I just wanted to say, thanks very much for the great communication today. It also really helps when you can give specifics about what you're thinking of doing. As far as I can tell, the LU16b combat changes are carefully thought out and on target.
Ok, some comments on this particular ability. I hate hurricane. This is such a risky ability to use. This is more situational then any other ability I have played with in this game. I have gotten myself killed soloing, screwed up group tactics, and even messed up a raid, just because I forgot to turn this stupid thing off. The only reason I attempt to use Hurricane at all, is BECAUSE of its very high proc rate. Even then, the extra damage it does really is not THAT much. The mobs have to be within melee range (which is not that large), they have to be in my frontal 180 degree arc, and it is only the damage of my primary weapon. What this really adds up to is only a small amount of damage done to nearby mobs, by the time my actual target dies. Just yesterday, I was considering removing Hurricane from my hotbar and forgetting I even have it. The small amount of area damage it does is hardly worth the trouble it has caused me already. In my opinion, I wish the devs would just completely replace this ability with something less wrecklace. Besides that, I dont think this ability suits the swashbuckler. We are too graceful for such a "oops, I just hit you on accident when I swung my weapon" type attack.
I love Hurricane. Most of the time I have it on unless the pesky chanter insist on mezzing everything.
If you know how to play your character well, you would know the huge advantages of hurricane - and why it has to be nerfed. Lets take dual wield cobalt for example. Two of these weapons is 31 + 31 damage rating. With hurricane, it's roughly 31 more damage rating added to your auto attack when dealing with a single target = 93 total damage rating on a single target. However, lets take Dagger of the Lost Eye (fabled drop from named in Poet's Palace) as another example. It is a *one handed* weapon with approximately 62 damage rating. On a single target, you're adding roughly 62 more damage rating using hurricane = 124 total damage rating. One handed weapons *also* proc alot more than dual wield currently - plus you can use a shield with it. King zalek's round shield, anyone? The truth is that I'm doing *alot* more damage with a one handed weapon - made for defense - than dual wield. Currently, not even 2x T6 fabled dual wields comes close to the damage I'm dealing with a one handed fabled. When killing a group of mobs w/ a fabled one-hander, Hurricane accounts for at least 30% of my total dps. I only hope that the nerf isn't too painful. I want to at least come *close* to a ranger in dps. Message Edited by Darchon6 on 11-04-2005 10:49 PM
Thanks for the dev reply. So the beef with this ability is pure dps, not concidering what that dps comes from, ie the adds. Am i wrong, I seem to remember that Swashs were supposed to be good at large encounters, are we overpowerd on large encounters? Have you seen Warlock, ranger, fury, wiz large encounter dps? I feel devs are wrong in this nerf, the nerf comes on the assumption that a higher dw proc rate will give swashs to much dps. Given that the wep proc today is about 1-2% of the total dmg we do (with Hurricane) I fail to see how this is supposed to become a problem. I do get the feeling that this nerf comes without acual testing, that someone when thinking of how a higher dw proc rate might affect the game thought of Hurricane, and got the feeling that it needed to be nerfed.
Thank you for your reply lockeye, I had forgotten where you had increeased proc rates on DW weapons. I just linked the adept 3 version on the test server, and I must say I was suprised at the size of the reduction in proc chance. This may be due to the fact it was a low level preist character, but thats easy enough to check with a low level non scout on live. I know that you probably aren't into giving out numbers, particularly on things that may or may not change, but would it be possible to ask if the proc rate on duel weild weapons was increased on the same order as the huricane chances were reduced- that is, does the loss on huricane equal the gain on the procs, so that the net effect is roughly little tono change? I just want to know if a full panic is needed or just a minor grumble over something that cosmetically looks bad but turns out to not really mean anything.
Thanks Lockeye for the post. I didn't think about the update where proc rates were getting boosted on dual wield so yea, that makes sense. Thanks for the 411. Of course, this assumes you even have a weapon you can use that has a proc on it. What happens to the people that don't have a weapon yet that procs or has to switch to a weapon that doesn't have one? What happens to hurricane then with the lower proc rate? I love hurricane. Sure, it's situational and sure, I have forget to turn it off and things get hairy. I learned though and know when and where to use it. Out of encounter AOEs and In encounters AOEs both have their good points and bad points. At times I wish Hurricane was in counter and times I am gald it's out of encounter. Because it is such a powerful skill, I think it should stay situational like this. If it was in encounter, people would use it all the time and that would just be too powerful. The Brigand Amazing Reflexes that they get at 52, instead of this, is also situational, although it could be argued it's much more powerful. I think I would prefer Amazing reflexes though Message Edited by Naggybait on 11-05-2005 02:54 PM
Naggybait wrote Technically, hurricane is a proc- just one that comes from a self buff rather than on the weapon. I would assume that imbued procs, poisons and any other effect that has a chance to go off on a successfull attack has the same formula for determining weather or not it goes off. Could be completely off base, but that is what makes sense to me.
Lockeye, Any way you look at it, this is a nerf. For example, Hurricane interrupts and the less hurricane hits, the less chance of an interrupt. I'd say the better solution would be to lower the dmg done versus the percent to hit. This will have a fundamental shift in the way I look at my Swashy. No longer will I consider Hurricane and Inspired Daring a worthwhile combination. This means I will focus on single target dps. Brilliant Swathe cast is way too long which leaves only Lucky Ruse for use with Inspired Daring... not worth it for AoE dmg. As a poster above has stated, have you parsed the other classes? I was in a raid last night where a Warlock did 2900 DPS!! The best I've _ever_ been able to do is ~12xx DPS. (Inspired Daring, Hurricane, fabled weapons, highest level poisons, etc.) Don't tier 2 archetypes have the ability to compete, DPS wise, with a tier 1 archetype? (Assuming Mastered out and expertly played) As it stands right now, anything over 575 DPS comes from my Inspired Daring / Hurricane combination. I hope you will reconsider.
A zerker in our guild will out DPS me just about everytime so, I don't personally think our Hurricane skill is out of whack, especially when compared to things like rampage, etc., on top of being one of the top tanks. I hope they do some testing on the DPS change before it goes live. I would test it on test but my toon is only 50 there, as he hasn't been updated since the days of splitpaw testing. Message Edited by Naggybait on 11-07-2005 05:30 PM
warlocks got a some nasty skill combo that makes them deal simply insane damage on ae fights, (I've parsed a warlock doing 54k damage with 1 skill only, and he had others in his arsenal aswell) but it will likely get "fixed" anyway, and comparing ae dps to single target is just silly
