Why don't people care anymore?

I think people have grown frustrated that SOE continues to come up with "features" that nobody wants. They either don't ask us or when they do they don't care. Each new producer thinks they have to make drastic changes to put their on personal mark on the game to satisfy their own ego. None them are content to say "i'm the producer that continued with the successes of the previous producers to keep this wonderful game going." They all want to be the one responsible for the "next big thing" that gets them noticed by Smedley.
Even when asked about EQ2's strongest points the dev team replies with, "well the game has been out for 6 years so we have more content than anyone else." Thats not impressive. Thats like saying the 49ers are a great team because they have a lot of old Super Bowl footage you could watch.
I don't doubt the devs are talented. I just wish they would focus on things that make the game better and not things that make SOE money. Devs should make the game and then let Marketing sell it. The way SOE does it Marketing tells the Devs what to make. At least thats how it seems to me.

Ranzal@Oasis wrote:

I'm just saying, my husbands opinion of, and comments on, Rift were enough to make me lose complete interest in the game. I am in no way telling anyone else that they should not look in to the game for themselves. It might be just what they are looking for. As for me, Rift isn't my cup of tea (so to speak).

I get that Tylia, its just my OCD talking. I had other people tell me the same thing. Now the way I am I asked "what was WoWish?' They pointed to something and then I pointed to an exact similar dynamic is EQ2. One of the things was speed of leveling to lvl 20-27 (the max of the Betas). I pointed to the fact that is the case in EQ2 now as well, its just most of us being at 90 may not know EQ2 has changed that much at the lower levels. The response was "Oh".
They then pointed to the UI and when I pointed to the Interface option where you can customize the UI to be pretty much what ever you want the response was again "Oh".
When it came down to it when I broke it down into logical bits they basically all had to say that lvl 1-27 in rifts isn't any different than EQ2, from a playing perspective, except in a few ways. Global cool down, character generation and the PvP aspect. Now of course the lack of housing, lack of in depth crafting, the gcd, PvP and more complicated character generation are all reasons to not prefer Rift over EQ2 for some, don't get me wrong, its just the fact that it wasn't anything actually unique to WoW that was the issue. Once you remove that dirty word from the discourse people then are forced to actually explain reasons for not liking it and they think, it removes the convenient cop out. Some of my friends still didn't like it due tolack of customizable housing and the GCD, others said "you know what its actually not that bad I think I'll pre-order." I say Good for all of them because they gave something new a try and made a better informed decision and will be happier with their final choice.
My main point is to say that I recognize to most that WoW is a dirty word. Calling Rift WoWing is akin to calling Democrats Socialists or Republicans Facists. It pretty much completely untrue when you actually look at it in a logical break down. It doesn't mean you will like democrats or republicans mind you, I just hate it when people throw grossly innaccurate labels on things. It just smacks of purposefully disparaging something in order to discourage people from approaching it. I WANT people to approach Rifts with an open mind. NOT because I want them to leave, but because I hope that if enough people do so and stop the fan boish junk on the forums, it might encourage SOE to get their heads out of their butts and do good things for EQ2 the game I love and do not want to leave. The problem is I feel that SOE's current attitude is, we have enough fan bois and girls to keeps subs worth while for a bit and we'll make up the difference in Extended and SC. There is NO incentive to actually try with that kind of mind set.

I personally have no interest in the new expac, which is sad because I have played this game a LOT and raided a lot and have preordered each expac a while in advance...
But this expac has had very little info released. Preorders are just now being accepted when previous expacs you could have preordered earlier. SoE has given us very little to be excited about. And after SF... we need something to be excited over.
First two weeks of SF I had all the quests done in the overland zones, 90% of the heroic content done, scoured the hole many times over and sat raiding waiting for the new expac to come out... and now I am not sure I will even buy it.
The content released between expacs kept the hardcore guilds busy, trying to defeat underfoot depths for a little while. But icy keep was a joke, even casual guilds that aren't in T3 don't do it for loot and ZuA, while nice on the drops, is little more than 4 floor elevator shaft with unimaginative encounters.
We used to get more updates but they wanted us to have more content they said, so started taking more time between. But they release less and less with the GUs it seems. The expacs feel incomplete and this one was announced to BE incomplete. They keep the players in the dark about the content, when last expac they at least were releasing info in bits about all the new zones on their main page. They stop replying to customers on the forums, they let preorders come so close to launch.
EQ2 has been my favorite MMO for the content, the lore, the look, the feel and the fun. But lately the fun has been gone because the things we all talk about and remember are slowly leaving the game. I couldn't care less about SC, I have used it for some things, but not much and if people like it more power to them. The vamp race I also don't care about, if someone wants to spend $20 for. But, SF was not their best expac by far and their marketing and advertising teams dropped the ball on Velious. THAT is why so many people don't care, they haven't been given anything to care ABOUT.

I played in four Rift beta events and was not impressed with it as a long-term game option. It is extremely linear and the graphics are very cartoonish. It is pretty and the musc is outstanding but it plays slow. I can't really put my finger on what makes it seem like you are swimming upstream, but it just doesn't flow well. It does not have housing and the crafting is not appealing. The constant movement from explosions is also quite nauseating. I guess I really do not like playing in an all-out war zone.I much prefer EQ2, even with the rather odd changes coming from DoV that are being bandied about.

Straight from the head honcho's mouth:
"The monthly subscription fee means players can expect a lot of new content from us. And I say a lot -- I really mean that. This is something that we feel obligated to the players, because they are paying monthly sub fee," Smedley explained.
This is about DCUO. Check it out yourself:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/0...post-release-c/

And THAT is why we don't care anymore. Do our subscriptions get us any of this new content? Doesn't seem so...

Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:

Add this is exactly what I mean. There are things you don't like about the game in terms of appearance and "add ons" (to me housing is an add on, as it doesn't effect progression) and to be honest you just don't want to lvl from ground zero again. Leveling thanks to the Golden Path in EQ2 is now just as linear tbh, heck even getting from 80 to 90 was linear. Also You like housing and crafting. BUT you actually tried it and it seems with a bit of an open mind. If people would have done stuff like this back in the day we might have an EQ2 that resembles the one we all fell in love with rather than the game that keeps on slowly but surely becoming as homoginized as the rest of the market and if more people do this it can stop this creep or even potentially roll it back by people telling SOE what it is that they like that is uniquely EQ2.
The reason this is so important is that games only survive as long as they keep a stable long time subscriber ship (which EQ2 has not done for about 3 years) or attracting new players. New players will not come to a 6 year old game that is not designed for modern systems and which is to similar to something designed for todays tech and old time players eventually become so disgusted with the game they learned to love changing. How many marriages or long term relationships end because one or both involved have just changed too much from the person u fell in love with? Relationships have to evolve but both sides have to evolve together and that only happens with open and frank communication and that means talking about the alternatives if things don't change or work out. Just saying "I have loved this for 6 years so its perfect" is usually called denial by Relationships coaches. The same applies to this game, because one day you can come home to an empty house and that sucks.

Luke Skywalker cares.

He said so to Leia as she was storming out of the cockpit of the Falcon.

scruffylookin wrote:

Star Wars quotes are always awesome, and on topic in every situation.

How bad is EQ2 getting when one of the best things you can say about it is that it's not "WoWish". Sad

Jeepned2 wrote:

When the sad part is for many practical purposes outside of end game raiding it is indeed WoWish. There really isn't anything that is a major difference mechanically between most MMO's anymore. Yeah EQ2 has legacy stuuf, housing, 24 classes, stuff like that but in terms of quest progression, the continued consolidation of stats, flying mounts eliminating the danger of traveling through overland zones, as advertised at Fan Faire not NDA breaking btw, until you enter a raid zone what is the practical game play difference? Not much anymore and thats the problem. Saying "it's not WoW" used to have meaning for everyone. Depending on what part of the game u play in though, it is losing or has lost most meaning and is now simply a baseless slur that gives some of us still here a slight feeling of unjusitifed superiority.

Eq2 needs to bring back meaningful crowd control. It needs some fresh new mechanics like flight based combat and sea/underwater based combat. A change from the same old stuff.
Talk about change I do like DCUO as a side game mmo.

Rift - I've been in 3 of the Betas so know a fair bit about it.
Rift is not the great new MMO that breaks the mold everyone hopes for. What it is, is good for what it is. At about $20 for 3 months cost the devs don't see it as a full-time playable MMO in my opinion, they see it as a "Drop in and play now and again" as the actual price reflects.
There are quests, breadcrumb ones that take you from small quest hub to small quest hub with about 3-4 simple linear quests.
Rifts are the main thing, they can open up anywhere anytime. So it is likely you will find your quest hub under attack. And you're SOL if there is no one on who wants to help clear the mobs because your quest hub NPCs will all be dead or fled until either the area is cleared, or it turns off, which can be well over an hour from Beta experience.
Crafting is nice and simple and helps you make armor that is actually useful to you without hours of levelling your Outfitter. I made Brig armor for my L 14 Ranger within the first 100 points of Novice Outfitter and not too much work. So this is NOT a Crafting game. You will not make money crafting when we can all do it pretty easily.
Selling is the Auction system.
No exploring as the world is quite narrow in each area, nothing to discover. You are a Soldier in a war zone, NOT an adventurer in a deep full world to explore.
As I said, Rift is very good for what it is, good graphics, nice Soul system to progress and get good skills. My Ranger has an Assassin, Ranger and Marksman souls so her Bow skills are good, her pet Razorbeat she got early is good at holding aggro, but her 2nd one a Dire Wolf at L 15 is crap. Can't keep the aggro. She has a poisoned blade and 2 good knife attacks in case she gets caught up short.
Finally no housing, no trophies, none of what we all do actually like in EQ2.

Kitsune wrote:

Looks as If your "experience" is 10 minutes in the tutorial zone.
You have got lots to learn young grasshoppa'.
Housing = Pointless. The housing in this game STILL has no function whatsoever. You place little things in the house, and then what? Stare at them?
Trophies = Pointless. Almost every player I've met has won almost all raid trophies at least at one time or another. L&L Trophies can be bought and grinded in a few minutes.
What else is there that you may want to point out?

I started EQ2 at launch and I'll be leaving this game for Rift when it launches.
Not because Rift is revolutionary, though the soul system looks really cool.
I'm leaving because of Sony's venture into F2P and the method that they implemented it.
I don't care if they want to nickel and dime people that don't pay a subscription. For the folks that pay for a subscription on live servers, they should have access to all the fluff stuff without having to pay for it.
The other issue was Sony's decision to segregate the live and extended population on different servers. What this does is kill almost all new players on the live servers. Any new players that want to try EQ2 will do it on the free servers and cannot transfer their toons to the live servers.
The live servers will slowly die out until only the extended servers are left. I've already noticed the huge drop off in channel chat over the last several months.
Live players can transfer their toons to the extended servers for a $35 fee. This should be free IMO.
I've played the Rift beta and it is polished and fun enough to have a solid starting population to work with. How it does long term remains to be seen. My guild will be giving it a solid shot.
If that game doesn't work out, there is always The Old Republic to try.

Vellisse@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Opinions vary While these may be pointless in your opinion, they're an important aspect of the game in other's opinions. Are either of you wrong though? Nope. That's why massive multiplayer games are so... massive -- they appeal to a wide range of playstyles and gaming preferences.
For Rift, Kitsune didn't like it... but you did -- and there's nothing wrong with either of those opinions. Arguing about it is like arguing about movies, though... a hundred people could list their favorite movie and odds are we'd have a hundred different movies listed.

Kitsune wrote:

As someone above pointed out, opinions vary. And that is fine.
For me, the lack of housing in Rift is a deal breaker. I suspect that is so for a large portion of the EQ2 population, certainly not all, but for a lot of us. This is the only MMO that I know about that has such a cool housing component. Personally, I am one of those who level up lots of toons just to get get cool stuff for my houses. I don't think housing would be a deal breaker for my husband, but since he wants to play the same game as me, he won't leave EQ2 either. I have a suspicion there are other couples who feel that way too.

Kitsune wrote:

Rift is not the end all be all of mmo gaming but I did want to clear up a couple of your misconceptions.
1. I haven't explored anything in EQ2 in a long time, other than to hunt for shineys. Quests in eq2 are the only reason to go from point A to point B in any zone and once you're done with the quest, no reason to "explore". Rift has a similar concept for shineys, but still can be improved.
2. Razorbeast = tank pet. Wolf = dps pet, hence why it can't hold agro. You upgrade both as you gain levels. One for solo, one for group - much like necro/conjy's have multiple pet options in this game.
3. Housing adds depth to a game. Rift not having it available in launch was a mistake imo.
Carry on with the EQ2 thread...

Vellisse@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I've been playing EQ2 since Dec 2005/Jan 2006 so a helluva lot more than the 10 minute tutorial. And spent 3 weekends from Friday to Sunday night/Monday am, the length of each of the 3 Betas I played in, playing Rift, so again more than a 10 minute tutorial. Don't make assumptions.
OK so you don't like housing and wall trophies, but a lot of people do. I like those things about EQ2 over other MMOs out there. I don't raid, have only gone on about 2 of them with my other guild as we all learned about raiding, and it doesn't appeal to me. I enjoy collecting the L & L books and trophies and stuff like that, and it took me longer than "a few minutes" to earn them. I didn't hit L 80 till sometime early 2009 because I enjoyed the game rather than rush through it. I'm still only L 85 on my main toon because I am retraining at college right now and too busy to play much, and taking a break.
Maybe it is using my brain that is making me tired of PC MMO gaming, but right this minute, I get more fun playing Evil Overlord 1 game that was on sale on Steam this holiday past, and table top Role Playing Sla Industries with friends. And as a 30 year veteran gamer, both table top and PC games, I am less of a grasshopper than you would like to think!

Teshra: Ah, I wondered why my Dire Wolf wouldn't hold aggro! Thanks for that info.