Why don't people care anymore?

Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:

I use systems just one step below a Cray and generally have no issues at all. I can run at least three iterations (at close to 60 fps on each) on each of my computers, but I don't think most people have systems like that nor have the knowledge to maintain them. I know most people I've gotten to try the game out on their computers won't play because their computers can't handle the load. That doesn't compel them to buy the game.

I stopped caring when it became obvious that the primary focus of EQ2 development was developing ways to sweat more money out of the playerbase rather than spending the time and dollars developing compelling, innovative content that might actually attract more subscribers.

JoarAddam wrote:

With one exception - the contention that SWG is a better game now than it was (a view I strongly disagree with) - this is pretty much it in a nutshell (apart from the space game, to say that SWG is a laughably hollow shell of what it once was would be giving it enormous credit).
To keep comparing every hiccup encountered in a SOE game to the NGE is doing a gross disservice to the devoted SWG fans who had their virtual rug yanked out from under them, then had the virtual anvil dropped on their groins. The almost breathtakingly complete lack of ethics or integrity in that case simply cannot be compared to decisions in other games (like EQ2) simply because people happen to dislike the results. Even Smedly himself said, upon SOE aquiring Vanguard, "There will be no major changes to the game. We learned a thing or two from the NGE."
I dislike Station Cash - but do I use it? Well...yes...because 'dislike' is not enough to keep me from buying extra character slots, something I simply cannot get any other way - and there's nothing that says I must use it. On the other hand, LoN is something I will never, ever spend any sort of currency on. To me, it is too much like a lottery ticket. But - are either of these examples comparable to the NGE? Not by a long shot. LoN is unethical in my view, yes, but at least there is a choice to take it or leave it...the SWG players had the NGE rammed down their throats, and then the SWG devs had the unmitigated gall to not only lie about what was happening, they resorted to speedy forum bans and account suspensions at even the slightest hint of criticism - these, among other reasons, are why the entire fiasco made it as far as the Washington Post and the New York Times.
There is a reason that SWG is the only online MMO to date that has a serious emulator project that takes the mechanics back...to the way it used to be. And it is ridiculous to think that anything Sony - or any other game company - has done even comes close. Let DoV stand (or fall) on its own merits.

I really think its unfair to say that SOE and those affialated with them do not care about the playerbase. At the root, yes SOE is trying to make money. Any business that doesn't do this, isn't going to stay in business long. They've got to be able to pay the light bill and rent somehow (this is an analogy by the way).
Rothgarr, Corvic, Ttobey ect, do alot for this game and its players? Why do they do this? Well yeah its their job. But as programmers and developers its their work. Its also a game they play too. I play a Crysis Mod called Mechwarrior Living Legends, and have been part of that community for a year. In MWLL the devs are able to talk one on one with the players a little more then they can here on EQ2.
From what I've been able to gather, when you bash their work. It sorta ticks them off. If you drew something that you thought was pretty cool, and I turned around and said it sucked or why didn't you do this instead? You'd be pretty mad too. Thankfully these devs are professional in how they deal with this sort of thing. The cool thing about MWLL is they don't have to be, its non-profit (though they are reasonable about it and many have picked up jobs with real companies to develop software).
We've seen some pretty nifty stuff get added. Currency tabs, mount tabs. We've got neat guildhalls and other things to do.
Everything isn't perfect, but shoot. This stuff wasn't there when I first played EQ2 3 years ago. You have to understand that you're going to spend 1000s of hours playing a MMO. You're going to run into issues and bugs. In Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess for Wii you might spend 20 hours total.
The only gripe I have is how this game runs on the majority of computers out there. But this isn't something the developers have control over. They've got to get a directive from above saying, "get this working on the majority of PCs out there." Of course this is after they collected data on what is out there. Thats not an easy task and I understand that.
But some of you have been downright ugly with your criticisms. You have to remember that developers are in a way artists. If you're going to make criticism, do so constructively. Don't say crap like, "this sucks," or "they just want my money." Coders, Imagers, Modelers, ect don't have control over all that. But they do a good job at what they do.
If you're going after the top level management with your posts, make sure you're indicating such.

I still care. But the constant nerf this, nerf that, change this, change that is starting to wear me down.
I'd just like them to release on expansion were we will be able to have fun and explore without having to completely start from scratch on gear and stats.
Velious could have been that expansion since the level cap isn't going up. but alas it is not.

EQ2 is still a great game and there is always something to do and 2 boxing opens up more possibilities when an expansion is winding down before the next.
The engine does need some serious work but I don't think that is likely now but a quad core Q6600 at 3.8GHz and crossfired 5770s with 8GB RAM should run a game from 2004 at top settings but it has become a bloated and slow engine, I think they will just leave it and eventually upcoming CPUs will come that will simply make it not a problem anymore.
I am not a fan of station cash but I have come to accept it and LON and as long as there is nothing too gamebraking in it and it pulls more money into the game it's got to be a good thing.
EQ2 is my first MMO and probably my last due to the time commitments but I enjoy it a lot. Having only had a quick trial on the original EQ and reading the lore in the game I am quite pumped for the expansion, all the hear say and vids on the net surrounding the waking of the sleeper in the original game makes for an interesting read.
This game needs Kerrafryms and Nagafens, beasties that people say cannot be killed and masses of people pulling together to make it happen.

EQ2's been out for a long time. WoW revamped the entire base game to compensate for this, EQ2 just does not have the resources.
Second is that I know almost nothing about the expansion. Don't know about what they're doing with AAs, or if the contested zone is any good, or the scope of it. Don't know if the raids look cool or what they're doing with game mechanics. They seem to be introducing a bunch of hooks aimed at getting us to preorder blind and the only thing I really know is they're introducing flying mounts, which just doesn't appeal to me especially considering it stretches out their limited resources. Dunno though, it might be a good expansion! They've just released absolutely zero information to excite me about it yet. I thought SF was one of the best so far so who knows.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I could not disagree more with this statement, Atan, if I tried... 100% false.

Plain and simple: It's difficult to get excited about an expansion that you know absolutely nothing about other than the standard PR buzz.
In my eyes, EQ2 is old and tired. The direction of "keep it close to the chest and keep them guessing" mindset that is working for RIFT is NOT how you hold a project like EQ2 that's this developed and mature together. It's how you ruin it because you're falsely building expectations that there actually might be something new which we all know; won't be.
You hold a project like EQ2 together by utilizing and tapping into the loyalities of your member-base and bring them into the fold. Many of us have been playing this game for over 6 years and because of that, many of us feel like we own a piece of it. We've been through the good times and the bad times with the development team. We've seen Developers come and go, yet we are still here and for what it's worth, helped make this game what it is now.... Now we are kept in the dark, and no one can figure out why we're apathitic.
Honestly, if you expect us to be dazzled by flying mounts - you better prepare yourself for disappointment.
If you're expecting to suddenly spring "This is your NEW class role" on us which is different then what we're comfortable with for over 2 to 6 years and expect us to say "OOOH, this is much better!" Yeah...
I think it goes without saying, your community isn't fond of drastic changes they "felt" they had no control in. Which is EXACTLY what your setting yourself up for.
Now I realize you drafted some of the best players in the game to be part of the beta test. Normally there wouldn't have been a problem with that... "IF" your community knew that's what you were doing. Heck, we'd agree with it! However, we don't know that because you never told us... you only left us guessing, which always goes bad.

Cheesers@Mistmoore wrote:

Its just my opinion for sure. But we had a whole group from guild in Alpha and after ~200 hours played I think we all came to the same conclusion on it.
Different folks like different things, so maybe Rifts is _the_ game for your or other's long term enjoyment. It just didn't pan out for any of us.

Rift may not turn out to be much but atm it has ALOT of people interested, talking about it etc........and from what ive seen, at least in beta it seems to have honest devs that seem to want to please and also seem to really enjoy what they are creating. That for no other reason is why I am moving to Rift. I have grown sick and tired of the people running EQ2 (note i said the people running it.....not the folks working on it)....bad decision after bad decision.......and what appears to be a preference to piss people off instead of please. With EQ2 i feel like instead of being a customer/player I am paying to be a tester for business models. With each and every update and expansion the game is being made easier and easier because its what they think will attract high subscription numbers.

Its hard to be excited or even care about a product/game when the people behind it are not.

Honestly, for me, it comes down to the age of the game.
I played EQ from 1999 to 2004 and absolutely loved that game. I came to EQ2 in 2004 and played until 2009. That's 5 years each game.
I love EverQuest Lore; I like the varied classes and races. I love the community on the RP servers.
But, after 5 years a game becomes dated and stale to me. I left EQ2 in 2009 to try other games - the MMO market evolved and I didn't want to put myself into an EverQuest bubble. I went out to see what other games had to offer. Some sent me running for the hills after a few hours (FFXIV, WoW, GuildWars) and others captured my attention for various reasons (Aion).
I really wish EverQuest 3 was coming. I had a burst of nostolgia and resubscribed to EQ2 this month and bought Sentinel's Fate. I only played a few hours, long enough to get from 80 to 81 on my main. I was happy to see that while many of my friends were gone, some were still here. But I couldn't get past a few things...
1. Sentinel's Fate felt dull and lifeless. The city was a far cry from the Freeport & Qeynos I loved when I started EQ2. Voiceovers were nonexistant. The zone around the city was barren and desolate. The feeling of quality that I experienced at launch - Kunark was just...gone.
2. The quests were uninspiring. I guess I know the Erudites are into research, but my character has slain dragons. Why am I fetching three types of research materials, and then when I'm done that, going to fetch all of those same research materials again to advance the storyline? Why am I running pointless errands? While I was excited to read the storyline developments on the forums; living these storylines left me disinterested. I couldn't find myself caring at all. I guess I'll just follow the Lore section of the forums and read the cliffnotes.
3. Combat, after trying other games, felt slow. When I was playing EQ2 full time, it felt fluid and exciting. But after playing MMOs that are a tad more action oriented, I felt bored standing in one spot and using the same 6 abilities until a mob died. Also my spell effects were very muted. I didn't feel anything epic about what I was doing. It looks like despite having master level 80 spells, nothing impressive was going on.
4. Graphics & Sound. The game is just old. The world doesn't feel vibrant after logging in from other newer MMOs. A lot of my experience in Sentinel's Fate had little to no music. Why is it so quiet? Also the character models I originally thought looked so wonderful just looked very average to me now. I met up with some friends who have been raiding all of Sentinel's Fate, and they looked exactly the same as when I left. The armor models were uninspired. The outfits mostly looked drab. I missed my exotic, high fantasy armors of other MMO's. I felt like EQ2's armory came out of a thrift store. Heck, the Race-specific armor styles of EQ1 were more impressive to me.
So, I will wait patiently for EQ3. I hope this will breathe new life into this enterprise. I want a vibrant, updated world. I Want hte funding to have voiceovers and immersion again. 6+ years is just too long to rest on your laurels; I'm ready to join this new decade of MMOs. Unfortunately, in my case, EQ2, much like EQ1, is best left as nostolgia.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

This echoes what both the EQ2 and WoW folk I know in the Rifts closed beta have said; further, most have said they'll pick it up at release, but don't expect to play past the free month. To be fair, both groups are from raiding guilds, so their opinions won't necessarily mesh with the "average" EQ2 player.
On the original topic, I think that more and more, the focus is on speeding up the trip to 90/250, and further tiering gear to focus on raiding -- I'm not saying this is bad, it's just not as interesting for me. I have seven toons at 90 (some at /250), but still enjoy some of the non-end content. It seems that the active players I encounter mostly want to either mentor/chrono for alt AAs, work instances for alt gear/loot sales, or do pickup raids to gear alts/loot sales. I'm sure it'd be keen to sit on thousands (or tens of thousands) of plat, but that's not of interest to me.
I still find the 'journey' of 1-90 [without being PL'd](but I twink) genuinely fun. I can't say I want to "replay" all the time, but with as many toons in the 25-65 range [as at 90], it should be obvious I get some kicks from it now and then. Just as I like raiding once or twice per week, and top-end instancing occasionally.
I'm not certain if there's one or two new facets/changes that would engage the ennui sufferers or casual players more. On the one hand, I judge other MMORPGs by EQ2 -- "would I play this MORE than I play EQ2?" And so far, since launch, in the long term, the answer has been "no". On the other hand, it seems like more and more I play for the social interaction, and for having "some challenging gaming" to do. If DoV sucks, I'll probably drop EQ2 until the following xpac. If it's okay, my ambivalent butt will probably stay. If it's engaging, I'll probably play more-than-casually.
So, I guess I still care ... kinda.

Angelo@Antonia Bayle wrote:

This post for me hits home!
I know others will disagree but that's what the internet is for.

Angelo@Antonia Bayle wrote:

You couldn't have hit it anymore square on the head with every single point you made. Having read this and going off my own experiences, i know much of what you refer in your comparisons is to Aion. NCSoft really nailed it with that game regarding graphics, play control, music, etc. Of course it has its own issues but that's not for this discussion. If it were possible to put Aion graphics into the EQ2 world and lore... sigh... damn near perfection. Remove the money grubbing Station Cash bull$#!7, hire some more writers for the lore of the game and it would be golden.
I wouldn't count too much on EQ3 being a slamdunk. i have a feeling anyone holding out for it is going to wholely disappointed. SOE's game development creativity dropped off almost completely after EoF was released. I believe that was the pinnacle of EQ2's time. Sure, RoK was ok but it was rushed to release and it suffered incredibly so in the beginning. That and RoK was also the beginning of unreleased/delayed released content... which simply kicked off the newest trend of EQ2 expansion traits... just release a half-baked game and "patch" it with the completed content later and call that patch a "Game Update".
I'm honestly holding out that Aion will get itself straightened out on the western servers and consider the influence and ideas that western gamers would like to have implemented into the game. we'll see but like with SOE on many things, it's not something i will get my hopes up over. I have a feeling that overall, the heyday of MMO's is gone. who knows, maybe SW: KotOR will be good. Not much else looks even decent... much less mediocre. Sure Rifts has a neat hook with the class development... but then Conan and even LotR had their own "neat hooks" and look what's happened with them... piddled out to meager existances at best.

I care. I left the game for a year and came back last spring and have been enjoying it ever since - perhaps that's the key. I noticed there are alot of burnt out people online that are just a downer to be around. I get that you have a right to whine as you pay - but I kind of don't understand why you keep playing if you hate it so much? Take a break, let those that are still enjoying the game do so without constantly hearing about how miserable you are playing. Maybe that's why people are leaving to go to the free server - at least you're getting a fresh influx of people that aren't bitter and are excited about the game. No disrepect intended to anyone, as I said you pay - you have a right to vent but all this negativity is just too much.
As for Vellious - due to NDA I can't comment much however I'm enjoying it so far. Changes I can't comment on suffice to say - now that you may be getting some changes it's suddenly a nerf or a threat to leave if you change the same thing we've been bored with for the past 2-6 years. Quite frankly, no one can win in that situation - they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
I'm sorry alot of you aren't happy anymore and I hope you find a game that you truly enjoy but when you're reduced to negative posts or why i'm quiting eulogies..then perhaps it's time to move on. There's alot to be said for 'going quietly into the night'.

snarlycarly wrote:

And perhaps even more to be said for 'raging against the dying of the light'. Personally I don't care enough to even do that anymore. For me, the main reason is that it doesn't seem the developers have any passion anymore. Don't get me wrong, many of them have done some great work on this game, and I definitely appreciate their hard work and efforts in the past - but it seems they're not allowed to care anymore. Suddenly, the atmosphere at SOE seems so stifling, like they've sucked all the fun out of it for both the players and their own developers. Knock out new station cash items every week, stick SC all over the players' UI, sure, but actual quality work on the game? It doesn't seem to be a priority anymore.
Just look at the Freeblood. Uninspiring looks, bugged appearances, no anchoring to the game via quests/starting zone and no voices. How can I be expected to care about a game, when the developers of that game don't even care enough to make sure their premium products are up to snuff?

Totally agree with Zannah.

I've been a customer of SOE for 10 years. I've spent more than I should have on Station Cash (actually thousands).
I should have a right to voice my opinion about why I ultimately decided to leave, and what I'd like to see before I return.

I would think as a designer/publisher of a product like an MMO I would be far more interested in hearing the reasons why people are leaving or unhappy with the product than anything else.
Sure its important to understand why people like or enjoy the product but understanding why they don't and addressing it is what leads to more business.
Its easy to weed out the flames and non-constructive stuff so they really cannot use that as an excuse.
But getting defensive over every negative opinion is not a good sign that they care....its also gives the impression of being out of tune with the players.
Then there is the obviously broken stuff that is allowed to exists for way too long......that leads the impression of the devs not caring.
So the reason I don't care anymore has alot to do with the impression that I get from SOE that they don't care or that all . It may not be true but it is what it is.
Actions imo speak louder than words......their actions as of late (past year or so) really disappoints me.

Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:

It's a multitude of things. Complaining about the same problem with my class since 2006 and it's never been address. That has kind of wore me down. Two in a row craptastic expansions. Stupid stuff like injecting LoN, SC and BG into a game that didn't need it and from what I say a majority didn't want. Seems like every time it finally dies down from the last "brillant" move, they come up with another just to restir the pot. Example... we just got over a couple of months of people throwing a fit over SC items with status on them (breaking a promise SOE made...again) and they hit us with EQ2X. Just never ending bs from SoE.
Six years of going through this and you are right, I could care less about EQ2. They can do what the want now, I could care less. I'm only here until something better comes along. I love the friends I have here, and would find it hard to leave them no matter how much SoE irritated me.
There is no one reason. It's a series of reasons for most of us I think, but a lot of it has to do with those of us who have been around feel that the game is slowly being destroyed by Corporate Sony.