Why don't people care anymore?

Soe management is very bad.
- The choice to simplify and simplify more and to simplify again is a huge mistake.
- The refusal to acknowledge enormous balance issues.
- The refusal to let people play tanks in the high end, i know many people who enjoy playing tanks but they can't and the had to roll a bard or or an enchanter.
- A too large impact of equipment and stuff (with regard to skill). For sure getting a better equipment is central in the game but currently the impact is too large.
- Extremely bad graphic perfomance that do affect the gameplay : i did palace last name with people with Gamer pc and last mob was trivial, it is impossible if everyone as a crappy PC. On encounters with massive swarm my mouse freeze ... since i play with my keepboard i still can do something but my char lags quite a log.
- SC ... If race change was available with a quest, if all SC item were avaibale via a questline i would not be bothered.
- Old zone trivialization. Making old zone more solo friendly was a good idea, but turning everything to V or VV is ridiculous. I would probably had turned ^^^ into a mix of ^ or ^^.
- Total disregard of the Dev for healers, they work on DPS classes and on Tanks, 1/4 or the players are just ignored.

One thing I would like to know; is there a path from EQ2X to live? I don't think so. I also can't find any real good links for a noob to play on live servers, it all pushes to extended. I would think that a reasonable person would see this as the path SOE is taking. Let the live servers die and run a Maple Story type system. I played on extended and still have an account. To do almost anything beyond level 20ish would require an outlay of a good deal of RLM in the form of buying tokens and whatnot on SC. You even have to buy tokens to buy or sell items on the broker if I read it correctly. And, if I did read it all correctly it would quickly outrun my mere $15/mo subscription fees (actually at one time it was x4, now it's x2, and soon to be x1.) I think the writing on the wall is very clear. So although I really love this game, it's obvious that they are slowly letting it wither on the vine and EQ2X will be the model going forward. They see money in it or they wouldn't do it, period. They are a business and businesses should only do things that net them more money. Some people like the direction they are going, I don't really care for it. I'm not mad, I am a bit bummed, but mad is the wrong thing to be when it's a business decision. When it's untenable to me I'll simply move. I further don't blame the devs, they are just doing as they are told so they can make money to feed their families. That's not evil either.

Kitsune wrote:

You are spot on Kit.
Rift is less deep (quests, lore, ...)and less polished (crafting, houses, ...)than EQ2 in many aspects but it is a lot of fun to play because of the flexibility of the Soul system. You can try a lot of combinations instead of ranting and pleading to improve the class you enjoy to play. I am done with that in EQ2.
The community is also a plus, it seems that some EQ2 guilds like Shadows of the Dragon are branching to Rift so there will be certainly some mature, like minded people, PVE and Raid orented in Rift. I have no clue how the raids will turn out to be and that was a weak point in my opinion in other MMOs that I tried like Lotro (too simple) or AoC (even more simple, borderline boring).
But for now I quite enjoy my level 20 Ranger/Marksman/Bard or Ranger/Marksman/Riftstalker or ... well in fact I did not have that much fun with a Ranger in a long time.
Corwin

TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:

I started when ROK came out and did some VP raids at 79-80 , TSO was already out which was making things easier.
VP was boring boring. First ton of trash, turn and burn .... zzzzzzz
Then ton of dragons with totally stupid scripts.
Silverwing is a good example, the mob is trivial and the script make no sense. Ok Ok i will go and click the healer clicky and we will get some neco/conju on the pillars. Soloing varsoon with my 30 necro is more interesting.
Nexona was a bit more fun, but fail condition ridiculous and well anyway we could recover from a mana drain with mystic mythical and enchanters. The adds were a bit bugged sometimes coming by walls .... A fight againt a Nexona with constant mana drain, high HP regen, in which debuf, mana sieve, etc would have been more important that pure dps would have been better.
The guy against which we had to autorun against a wall was even more stupid.
I had more fun in Icy Keep, encounters were more often meaningfull. At least I was able to play my toon instead of running to clic some meaningless pilar.
I also loved the dynamic rune(s) figths (even if graphic performance and lag is an issue), and Ilstaad and Perah were also fun.
I stopped at the end of easy mode, since i refuse to play with ACT, for me no AOE should ever be predictable or announced and no timer should be deterministic.
So VP was more boring than SF, it was not harder and several encounters were totally stupid.
I would probably love a MMO with no raid but with very hard x1 content and hard solo content. Finding 24 people that are both Nice and good players is close to impossible. In any raid i was 3/4 of the roaster were either people I disliked or bad/average players.

Coming into this discussion as a fairly new player, only about a month or so, I really don't understand a lot of the complaints. I keep hearing "It's not like this anymore" "They changed this too much" "This used t obe so much better". It sounds like the old men who talk about how the 1940s was a much better time to live for whatever reasons they remember through the fog of nostalgia. Maybe it's just a matter of certain people having simply played in the same world too long, and nothing would satisfy them at this point. In that case it's probably better for them to move on, or at least take a break.

I've played on quite a ew other MMOs, and this si by far the best. The people I've met in-game tend to be freindlier, This has the most unique housing system, tons of varied quests, great trophies. It's an amazing world to play in. There is an incerdible amount of lore and backstory, a great variety in environments, and one of, if not the, best crafting systems out there. Graphically, this is still one of the best looking games I've played, as well. Sure the graphics are mostly the same as they were forever ago, but when that's still towards the top of the curve, why spend the time messing with that, that could be spent elsewhere? And for all the complaining about the cash shop, nothing on there is necessary, or game-breaking. Sure I don't like the idea of having to buy a race, that's why I chose EQII live over EQX, but the fact that others have vampires and I don't really doesn't impact my gameply at all.

Now, I tend to be far more a role-player than a raider, and I'd rather wander through the worl helping NPCs than just getting to the level cap, so my play style may be a bit different than a lot of those I see on here. I enjoy going through as many of the questlines as possible, and actually reading through all of the text, just to get the story. For me, with most MMOs, end-game is pretty much the end of the game (or at least time to start a new character), not the beginning as it seems to be for other players, so all of my opinions may really be in the minority.

I can certainly understand the need for constructive criticism, to further improve the game. Yes there are things I would love to see changed and/or added. And, yes, I agree that SOE has royally dropped the ball on marketing this game. But so much of what I'm reading is just doom and gloom, EQII is dead/dying/ruined forever, negativity just for the sake of negativity.

From my standpoint, simply compared to the other MMOs out there RIGHT NOW, not what EQII was/might have been years ago, this is an amazing game that does what it does extremely well, and is probably the most fun I've had in years.

ravendruid42 wrote:

Some will always complain, but a lot of what you're seeing is coming from those who've seen it in better days and they've stuck around as populations dwindled, unique zones were reworked to be more "standard", and the end-game additions becoming almost a templated copy paste compared to the earlier work with voiceovers and some semblance of NPC life to those areas. NPCs have been removed, the entire core storyline's been done away with, you probably do lack some basis for understanding where the bitterness arises. Stick around a while, you'll see the game move more away from it's strengths and more towards emulating the other MMO's as it's been doing for some time.
Complaining about the complaining's been done to death as well.

Greatscate wrote:

That's just sales speak. He doesn't mean half of what he says. Just a way to sale subscriptions.

Oh, I'm still interested.
It's waning though - and a "special deal" of "only" $60 for the CE version of expansion doesn't help. When I click on pre-order and it tells me that because I am Australian I get the privelege of paying $75 US instead (and no, there are no tax implications in this, so don't try to blame GST, VAT etc) my interest wanes even further......................

Ok this is how I see it... First problem was Verant left and Sony took over. Look at eq1 it trumps eq2 in all ways except graphics of course which eq2 next will fix that issue when released. Next Sony is lazy with expansions IE.. SF is just a mix of DoF and KoS not real creative.. The raid zones are not much if any different then the normal heroic zones. Free servers are getting everything paying ppl get minus level cap and upgraded spells which for most gamers who are bored out of their heads with eq2 go there just to keep in touch with others. Paying players dont get anything that great over free players so ppl are feeling ripped off. Vellious is not even going to be a complete expansion which shows Shows sony is milking ppl just like that Harry Potter Deathly Hollows pt 1 milking BS. Also shows how lazy Sony is getting to not even finish a expansion before releasing it.. Makes ya wonder where the money we pay them goes and what they are doing besides sitting on their hands most the year.. Sony does not make adventure packs no more to cure the boring feeling we all get 2 months if that after a expansion is released as they are all short and too easy. Next EQ2 is starting to copy WoW (hangs head in shame for SoE) Flying mounts??? Making game too bloody easy (mentoring etc) I get the feeling wow babies are crying to SoE its too hard like they have in wow.. Last great expansion was Kunark and it didnt come in a part 1 and 2 etc and I am betting will be far better then Vellious. SoE keeps screwing with classes and their abilities not in a positive way. Their holiday events are old and boring not enough changes per year to make them fun.Sony are the masters at saying they will do one thing but do another or do nothing such as said from a GM once a raid kills Mr Theer in palace the god slayer all the gods will return as they didnt think it could be done yet but it has a lot and I ask you where are the gods? Heck the avatars are gone who knows why... Sony takes but dosent give equal in return not good business IMO. There is plenty good in eq2 just not for vets. I figure SOE needs to back off and bring Verant back to fix what they utterly messed up. With the 2+ MMO comming soon I dont see EQ2 being healthy much longer.

Corwin@Oasis wrote:

What you people don't seem to see is, that RIFT launches in a highly finished / polished state.
That means that after launch they can add new features to this game rather quickly based on player feedback.
Enough people want housing? Pretty sure they will add it.
And that is the whole difference.
A lot of MMO's (EverQuest 2 included) launched with tons of features to make it sell good. Only to have most of it being unfinished and broken / bugged to hell. And then have them spend years fixing and finishing it!
What TRION is doing (and lot of studios can learn from it) is launch a very solid and polished core game with enough features to keep people entertained and then be able to fully focus on new content and features after launch, without having to spend the first 1-2 years fixing a broken / unfinished game first.
And that is what ticked me off from many recent MMO launches (EverQuest 2 expansions included).
They advertise tons of promise, tons of features. Only not being able to deliver and launch a half finished and broken game / expansion and then spend months to even years trying to fix it and have people pay for it via monthly fees.
It's just bad business! But that's just my 2 cents.

Well say all you want how glowingly wonderful Rift is but this is my take on the game after being in months of beta:
1. So easy a 2 year old can play it. Yep... if you want easy mode here is the game for you! As long as you can punch a button and continue to punch a button and move the character you win!!
3. Boring. The quests are boring.. not too much lore to it... alot of go talk to this person and kill this many mobs type of quests. Rifts open up here and there and you have people crowding in to down the rifts to the point your lucky you can hit one mob to have the illusion you participated.
4. There are shineys... collectables. However they are very hard to find. They are not our obvious glowing and shiney "?"
5. I found the world quite dull in comparision to EQ2. I still feel the EQ2 graphics are much more superior.
6. The soul system I found can make you pretty much OP. Why even bother with having a group? You can tank, dps, and heal all in one toon... no need to have a group! Well maybe for an instance or a raid but otherwise you can solo your way to the top level and never have the interact with another player.
7. I found the crafting system again boring. Combine this and that and see if you get better... meh. At least the stuff is useful for you to some extent.
I can continue to expound on the "new toy" but why bother? It is not the OHHHH AHHHHHH new MMO that everyone was hoping and praying for.. just another WoW clonish game that will be fun for a few weeks or months. Don't see it being what people have hoped it would be.

Frenzywolf@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Everyone is allowed their own opion i guess the only one i can agree with is 7 .
Eq2 quests are so dam close they are boring also.
EQ2 graphics are not even close i would say you need a new computer, as far as a 2 year old can play it you have not even gave the game a chance and have not tried much to beable to say that.
As far as eq2 and rift i will play both but will lean towards rift i am thinking but thats just me.

Vetvyer@Lucan DLere wrote:

This is something that needed to be said, mainly because it's spot on. A developer is assigned by the company to work on the game, and does what he or she is told. Some, like Domino, have a specific focus - in her case, Tradeskilling. That's what she does. Granted, only some developers (again, like Domino) actively solicit player opinion, and take their desires into account when making content. Some can actually get away with giving players what they ask for. But the examples of developers themselves actively blowing off the player base are likely very few and very far between (but admittedly, when they do, it's usually a doozy).
For example, there would be only one reason I can think of that a dev would focus on Station Cash items to the exclusion of all else - and that is because some corporate fatcat is seeing dollar signs in his daydreams, and can pitch it to the folks over on EQ2X - and has said to the developer "You're working on this now, put all that other crap on hold until you complete this." The dev is there to do a good job at what he does, and...to remain gainfully employed (and who can blame them, especially these days?).
Chris Cao was unusual in that regard during his tenure at Star Wars Galaxies - he was one who actively ignored the players as a developer. You'd have expected blow-offs from the likes of Smedley and Julio Torres, but Cao doing it was a bit of a shock to me...and more than a bit disturbing. These three were, more than anyone (unless you include the bozos at LA) responsible for the NGE. But I do not think I am imagining things when I say that most SOE devs these days are inclined to take some player suggestions to heart - heck, I still have a forum thread bookmarked that discussed something that wasn't in-game, but should have been - Appearance Slots. And lo and behold, a few months later, we had...Appearance Slots. Whether they made the reasoning it would be a great way to peddle things for Smedbucks, who's to say (although I think it likely) - but they did listen that time.
Ttobey and Covic have been responding frequently of late, and things have been getting fixed fast (when they can be) or being explained why they won't be fixed fast (when they can't be) - and really, you can't expect more of them than doing the jobs they were hired for. If you're going to point fingers, Smedley & Co. are likely the ones making the decisions that the players find to be the most autistic in nature.

To answer the OP and a few others in here; I take it that no one has never played Dungeons and Dragons where the dungeon master was impartial to someone in the group?
Well thats what is going on with SC and if you've ever played (which I can tell the management at SOE has not) you know when you start showing ANY favoritisem (ie how big their wallet is!!!!!!) the game becomes boring and the efforts you put into your character just lost its immersion.
What it boils down to is SOE forcing people to loose that immersion and "connection" to their characters by allowing those people with big wallets to "rack up".
This phenomina has a clinical term, its called relative disassociation. This disassociation is caused when people build their characters based on one model (of risk + time = reward) and are flip-flopped to another ($$$ = Reward). This is much like an archetect building thousands of buildings from stone just finding out or being told that people can construct better looking buildings than he can, more structurally sound, etc with zero work involved -- This is enough disassociation to make that architect to completely give up on achitecture as his life's accomplishments are now "relative" and meaningless. SOE's marketing team should at least have someone that knows something about psychology (which I can tell they don't) so they're not damaging these vital connections to the game that are direct infuences for people to keep paying their bills.

Malvin@Lucan DLere wrote:

Lalen@Everfrost wrote:

Yeah, I mean all those suckers who spent hours raiding UD to get the uber loot, and here they could have just plunked down a few bucks and buy it all. Please. SC offers fluff, nothing more (with a few possible exceptions) and certainly nothing that upsets game balance. There is not a signel thing available via SC that gives you any sort of advantage over other players.
You are vastly overstating the impact SC has on the game and on its players.

fluff is game ballance. It's break the game like previous poster told you .... the immersion count as much as power of item, if you dont have the appeal to play, dont matter how powerfull your item are

Lathain_Sarathai wrote:

And there's tons of fluff available still, and those who want a bit extra can buy some more. It's sort of like D&D, where you have the core rule books, but also hundreds of extras you can pay extra for to expand your character. The difference is, in D&D, the extras are usually far more powerful than what you find in the core rules.

The reason this debate is so frustrating for folks is because it's an argument about opinions where everyone uses psuedo-facts to back up that opinion.
Fact is, you don't have to back it up. It's your opinion.
Some people hate the SC model. Some people like it. Some people don't care.
The problem is folks on all sides try to give reasons or justifications for why they love/hate it. Those reasons are immediately latched onto by the people that disagree and the debate becomes a debate on the validity of the reasons.
But the reason is subjective. You either don't like it or you do. Having a debate over whether or not you have the right to love it or hate it is pointless.
SOE will go where the money is, and I don't blame them. No person is going to convince another person to dislike something they like through debate. If someone likes SC, nobody is going to convince them to suddenly hate it by pointing out that their reasons for liking it are illogical.
We can debate it all day on these forums, but when folks get in game and see something they want, they'll decide right then whether or not that thing is worth spending real money on. And the counter-arguments in this forum aren't going to change their minds.

Totally agree it's subjective and people will like it or they won't and there are good justifications on both sides.
Personally, I really don't care what people buy, I only wish the SC stuff wouldn't be pushed so agressively. I can't log on without having it pushed in my face. And it's certainly immersion breaking to go to a mount seller and see mostly items to buy with real life currency.
I wonder if it was made a little less forceful whether it wouldn't work better. Then people could embrace it or ignore it more easily. Some people will still object to others buying stuff, but others would be ok if they could just be left alone and not constantly pushed to buy SC items. I can see pushing it on the Station Cash servers, but on the subscription servers, I think it should be available but not so in your face all the time. Of course, the next person will feel differently.